Clyde FC; Season 2022-23

[haufdaft]

One thing I didn't mention was something that was discussed on this forum just as last season ended. That was the business of budgets and when the manager gets an amount of certainty about those so that he can recruit.
I remember a thread of conversation which saw some supporters argue that it was unrealistic to expect budgetary certainty towards the end of last season with our fate hanging in the balance. Other supporters argued that it was realistic because, for example, Montrose were signing players when their fate too hung in the balance. Albeit we were looking over our shoulder and Montrose were looking up to the prospect of playing in the Championship. The same rules apply.
It seems that Danny has asked and we're going to try in future to speed-up the budgeting process so that we can get as much certainty as possible as early as possible, all so that we can get an edge which we might (just might, mind) have lacked in the player market before now. So those supporters who argued that we should've or could've been signing players just when Montrose were doing the same at the end of last season had a point. It seems we can do better there.

The reason for the delay in fixing of budgets was entirely down to the performance of last season's team.

If Danny doesn't want that uncertainty again he needs to get the team away from the possibly of relegation well before the end of the season.

[haufdaft]

One thing not mentioned by Danny Lennon or anyone else at the meeting tonight was that last season was awful too. This season is not a one off

[FREDDYFRY]

Other interesting point he made was when asked about the midfield needing a better sitting player or words to that effect, encouragingly he said he’d love a more creative player who would carry the ball and commit players Dylan Easton type (ironic or what), which of course is 100% correct, at present we have zero creativity.

[Clydeside]

9 hours ago, haufdaft said:

The reason for the delay in fixing of budgets was entirely down to the performance of last season's team.

If Danny doesn't want that uncertainty again he needs to get the team away from the possibly of relegation well before the end of the season.

The uncertainty brought about by not knowing what league you'll play in doesn't help, for sure. But to say it was entirely down to the performance of the team and, connectedly, the fact that we flirted with relegation is not true.

Just consider that if what you've written was true, this problem would inhibit successful sides as well as unsuccessful sides. Hence my Montrose example. There will be some budget which a club knows it can put aside for players wages even while it doesn't know what league it'll be in. Of course because it's a partial picture of the budget, it makes things tough. But even that partial picture may enable some recruitment if the players targeted have modest wage demands. I'm sure Montrose signed a player from outside the seniors quite late last season for example. He may not have had huge wage demands as such. And so they could take the risk of his wage irrespective of their fate, knowing that he was good enough for league one or potentially for the Championship in their judgement.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Clydeside
Typo

[CM.]

I didn't even know the person next to Danny last night was Diamond until I came on here  Which sums up his input on the night.

[FREDDYFRY]

16 minutes ago, C. Muir said:

I didn't even know the person next to Danny last night was Diamond until I came on here  Which sums up his input on the night.

Quite embarrassing actually, given that the main points of the discussion was in relation recruitment I think it’s pretty poor he said absolutely nothing, even when invited to contribute. Zero leadership not impressed!

Give Danny his due… never hid and at least faced up to the difficult situation for him, although most will say of his own making I suppose ie recruitment.

[Clyde01]

Contributing nothing seems a common theme for Diamonds time at the club.

[Clyde85]

That’s ridiculous that he never contributed anything last night. Quite cowardly actually.

[Jaggy Snake]

I wasn't there last night as I didn't really see the point, though I still greatly appreciate the posters who've detailed what was said.

We know Danny Lennon always speaks well and clearly cares about the club but that doesn't mask both his own and the players poor performances for both last and this season.

I can understand it would have been extremely frustrating to line up several signings and have them fall through at the last minute but, ultimately, the manager and recruitment team will be judged by the players they actually brought to the club, not those they almost did. And it's obvious to the fans, and seemingly the manager himself, that far too many of them are nowhere near good enough.

I wasn't expecting much but if we're really only holding out some hope of a couple of loan signings in January, I can't see any dramatic improvements being made. Otoo came in last year and did well but most take too long to get up to speed and contribute positively.

It's very poor Diamond barely spoke as hearing what he actually offers might have been the one interesting point of the night.

[haufdaft]

Most concerning to me was that even with the amount of effort and cost expended the recruitment process, it has failed to produce a decent squad for League One.

The professionals didn't see what we as fans could easily identify as poor signings.

This isn't said in hindsight. There are plenty of posts preseason.

Danny had to keep referring to the preseason friendlies as examples of good performances.

Says it all.

[The Moonster]

12 hours ago, haufdaft said:

I was trying to think of the player Lennon mentioned who played in the championship, indicated he was signing for us then signed for a League two team. I wondered if it was a certain ex Alloa player.
 

I'm not sure this "players told us they were signing but were actually using us to get better offers" makes sense. Lets say this is Ray Grant being discussed here as an example, if he was using Clyde's offer to force more money out of another club, he doesn't have to tell Danny Lennon he intends to sign for him. Grant could easily (and is more likely to) say "Let me think it over and I'll get back to you" rather than committing to signing. Grant has played for Danny and Clyde before, is he really going to f**k you about like that? More to the point, he would've been a big signing for Clyde and a starter every week, is Lennon really admitting that Clyde can't pay more for their star centre midfielder than Stirling Albion can in League 2? That would concern me. 

[Ignoramus]

8 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

 More to the point, he would've been a big signing for Clyde and a starter every week, is Lennon really admitting that Clyde can't pay more for their star centre midfielder than Stirling Albion can in League 2? That would concern me. 

He's effectively said that before and did so last night. He had a list of targets and lost out on some of the top names he was banking on/hoping for because they couldn't compete with teams in "lower leagues". I took this to mean League 2, but one wonders if the likes of Darvel and maybe a well-resourced LL team would be in the equation also.

[Ignoramus]

In terms of completely idle speculation, I do wonder if one of the people that was stringing him along was possible Quitongo? We were heavily linked with him during the summer, he went to Airdrie reasonably late in the summer IIRC and we had to play Docherty at LB early in the season because we didn't have an option there.

[Ocelot1877]

Iv never heard of someone using an offer from one employer to get a better deal elsewhere. We must be the first football team that’s happened to. For me that’s a very poor excuse and papers over other issues
 

 If players are continually choosing dropping down leagues instead of playing for us for financial reasons then we have to look at why we can’t compete with those teams budgets. Our board is accountable for generating income and if they can’t do it to a level where we can compete in the 42 set up we will drop out its that simple. 
 

If we can’t compete with other teams because they have better benefits than us. Rumour of Grant going to Stirling as they have a partnership with the Uni. Then that’s the boards issue also. There job to drum up these relationships and make the club an attractive option for players. 
 

If players don’t want to play for us because Danny can’t sell them on his vision and what the clubs about despite its location, facilities, management team and current division then that’s his issue alone

If it’s all 3 then something needs to change or we will be dropping out league 1 and will plummet very quickly to the lowland league. 

 

 

[Bullyweeno1]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

I'm not sure this "players told us they were signing but were actually using us to get better offers" makes sense. Lets say this is Ray Grant being discussed here as an example, if he was using Clyde's offer to force more money out of another club, he doesn't have to tell Danny Lennon he intends to sign for him. Grant could easily (and is more likely to) say "Let me think it over and I'll get back to you" rather than committing to signing. Grant has played for Danny and Clyde before, is he really going to f**k you about like that? More to the point, he would've been a big signing for Clyde and a starter every week, is Lennon really admitting that Clyde can't pay more for their star centre midfielder than Stirling Albion can in League 2? That would concern me. 

Think you have hit the nail on the head. 

I understand that Grant was approached and turned down the offer to sign instead choosing to sign for Stirling Albion in L2.

If it wasnt for more money then i dont know what the answer would be?

[Bullyweeno1]

13 hours ago, FREDDYFRY said:

Other interesting point he made was when asked about the midfield needing a better sitting player or words to that effect, encouragingly he said he’d love a more creative player who would carry the ball and commit players Dylan Easton type (ironic or what), which of course is 100% correct, at present we have zero creativity.

Good to hear he would like a creative midfielder but then again why wouldnt he because as you say we have zero creativity currently in the midfield.

If we werent in for Easton then I would be disappointed but dont expect we could compete with what Airdrie offered him as assuming he is full time with them.

[The Moonster]

1 hour ago, Ignoramus said:

He's effectively said that before and did so last night. He had a list of targets and lost out on some of the top names he was banking on/hoping for because they couldn't compete with teams in "lower leagues". I took this to mean League 2, but one wonders if the likes of Darvel and maybe a well-resourced LL team would be in the equation also.

I don't doubt teams like Darvel, EK and Kelty can offer terms better than most in this league, Stirling Albion, meh. "Banking/hoping on" someone signing is very different from them having verbally agreed and then going back on that, which is what seemed to be suggested here. If I were a Clyde fan I would be asking serious questions about budget here though, to lose out on numerous targets to lower division sides suggests that Clyde are paying absolute peanuts to everyone bar their star striker.

35 minutes ago, Ocelot1877 said:

Iv never heard of someone using an offer from one employer to get a better deal elsewhere. We must be the first football team that’s happened to. For me that’s a very poor excuse and papers over other issues
 

This happens in absolutely every industry, no doubt about it. I just don't understand why that situation would result in Danny Lennon thinking he had guys signed up. He's either ridiculously naïve or he's laying on the excuses thick in a bid to cover his arse. 

[Brian Carrigan]

36 minutes ago, Ocelot1877 said:

Iv never heard of someone using an offer from one employer to get a better deal elsewhere. We must be the first football team that’s happened to. For me that’s a very poor excuse and papers over other issues

I'm surprised you've not heard about this. It happens regularly throughout the leagues. One player is made an offer from Club A whilst aware of interest from Club B and Club C. Player/Agent uses the offer from Club A as leverage to get more money out of Clubs B/C - "Club A are offering £XXX p/w, if you can better it, I'll sign for you, if not then I'll sign for Club A".

With regards to dropping down to L2, I have a few mates that play/have played at this level and to them it seems to be that L1/L2 is much of a muchness. If you have the choice between playing for a team with the potential to win L2 or playing for a team fighting to survive in L1 on similar money, signing with the team in L2 is a no brainer. You'll probably have a good time playing in a positive environment and might end up with a promotion on your CV.

2 minutes ago, Bullyweeno1 said:

If it wasnt for more money then i dont know what the answer would be?

Ray goes to Stirling Uni IIRC, so it's probably just a much easier option and the money will be similar.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, Ignoramus said:

In terms of completely idle speculation, I do wonder if one of the people that was stringing him along was possible Quitongo? We were heavily linked with him during the summer, he went to Airdrie reasonably late in the summer IIRC and we had to play Docherty at LB early in the season because we didn't have an option there.

Rico signed for Airdrie around June 4/5 I think. His big thing was moving into full-time football, so I don't think he would be one.

[Bullyweeno1]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

This happens in absolutely every industry, no doubt about it. I just don't understand why that situation would result in Danny Lennon thinking he had guys signed up.

Agree, said this last night in my post.  In every industry people try to bargain off employers to get a better deal for themselves.