Boris Johnson and Independence

[D.A.F.C]

Bojo will work wonders for independence.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

But not quite as pathetic as those who need you and jupe to tell them what to think.

And THEY are certainly not as pathetic as grown adults, like you and jupe, wandering around a football forum trying to tell others what to think.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

 

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You can repeat this as often as you like but you are wrong.

Not everyone is selfish.

[Tutankhamen]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Scottish voters gave over 770,000 votes to the Tories in the last General Election.

Just 200,000 shy of the SNP.

You are utterly deluding yourself.

Hearing reports the Tories don't have one MEP left in England.

Total wipeout

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Not only did I not say everyone WAS selfish, I didn't actually use the word to describe anyone. Other people including you did that. Can you not find a way to debate without making up stuff?

So we're agreed that you're wrong and I'm right. Good.

[sureiknow]

2 minutes ago, Tutankhamen said:

Hearing reports the Tories don't have one MEP left in England.

Total wipeout

Fake News.

Be good though.

[carpetmonster]

47 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I am talking about what kind of country Scotland is.

What on earth are you going on about?

You are asserting Scotland is more akin to the US than to continental Europe. I am asserting you are talking out of your hole. 

[git-intae-thum]

1 hour ago, carpetmonster said:

You are asserting Scotland is more akin to the US than to continental Europe. I am asserting you are talking out of your hole. 

Indeed oaksoft seems to spout laughable pish that he/she makes up or changes opinion on as frequently as the wind changes direction. Not worth responding too.  

However Ido feel I have to put forward the case for the true centre/ centre right Smithsonian economic model.

Adam Smith stated that capital growth was to be used to enrich nations. Wealth built through industry acted as an incentive to the individual, but crucially was to be in part reinvested on society to ensure all could be industrious. Opportunity for all was ensured, wealth was again created and indeed wealth was added to the commonwealth of the people.

Crucially then, Smith believed in a social responsibility.

This is not what is now happening in Western societies.

Current UK and US neocons do not follow the doctrines of Adam Smith.

What they espouse is a  regressing of society. Rich getting richer, squeezing the middle ground and stamping on the poor. More akin to a medieval economic model.

Anybody that has spent any significant time in America knows that they have f**k all sense of social responsibility.

Their country is a mess. Fine if you have plenty of the mighty green back, but a horrible place to live for the majority.

It is not a social model to aspire too.  It is not a European model.  It is not a Scottish model.

[pandarilla]

It's also not in any way ridiculous to suggest that we lean towards America more than Scandinavia.

Obviously when generalising like this we're all spouting shite to an extent, but American culture has dominated Britain (including us up here) since the second world war.

I think there is a clear difference between Scotland and England and that relates to our 'social conscience', but it's very slight.

As oaksoft has pointed out, we are not as left wing as some would have is believe (or in my case, like).

[Billy Jean King]

10 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

The divide in Scotland has nothing to do with classes. Plenty of "middle" class folk vote SNP and support Scottish Independence. Besides, the Scottish middle class isn't exactly a well off class if you look at the income structure across the country as a whole.

So how would you describe the anti Indy demographic ? The relative wealth of the middle class in Scotland is totally irrelevant to this argument. Regardless of their perceived wealth it's that group that in the main need the most convincing / converting. The "golf club" crowd to use another analogy.

[Billy Jean King]

18 hours ago, Im_Rodger said:

Won't need to worry about a BoJo PM if Sir Graham Brady is standing. 

A far more competent and intelligent candidate for the leadership. 

He has my vote if he goes through with standing. 

100/1 fill your boots lol

[Kuro]

3 hours ago, pandarilla said:

It's also not in any way ridiculous to suggest that we lean towards America more than Scandinavia.

Obviously when generalising like this we're all spouting shite to an extent, but American culture has dominated Britain (including us up here) since the second world war.

I think there is a clear difference between Scotland and England and that relates to our 'social conscience', but it's very slight.

As oaksoft has pointed out, we are not as left wing as some would have is believe (or in my case, like).

We haven't voted right of centre for 64 years. We aren't left wing but are definitely miles left of centre.  Culturally we are very influenced by americe, politically we are absolutely miles apart. 

Look at healthcare, tax, gun control, religion, welfare, justice (megrahi, jail terms).  We're almost polar opposites in every way politically.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Kuro

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, Kuro said:

We haven't voted left of centre for 64 years.

What?

Of course some people simply don't vote at all.

[Kuro]

The environment, workers rights etc.  Politically we are.nothing like america, they find it hard to.comprehend our.politics and I think.the more anyone from here knows about theirs the harder it is to.comprehend too.  We are much more like Scandinavia, frqnce, belgium, Holland, Portugal, and that's a very good thing.

[Kuro]

2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

What?

Of course some people simply don't vote at all.

Sorry meant right.

[pandarilla]

We haven't voted right of centre for 64 years. We aren't left wing but are definitely miles left of centre.  Culturally we are very influenced by americe, politically we are absolutely miles apart. 
Look at healthcare, tax, gun control, religion, welfare, justice (megrahi, jail terms).  We're almost polar opposites in every way politically.

"Definetely miles left of centre" - it's a completely subjective term but this just isn't true.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, but we're only slightly left of England. The difference is nowhere near as much as you seem to believe, and it's dangerous and quite frankly lazy thinking to believe it.

[Kuro]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

"Definetely miles left of centre" - it's a completely subjective term but this just isn't true.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, but we're only slightly left of England. The difference is nowhere near as much as you seem to believe, and it's dangerous and quite frankly lazy thinking to believe it.


 

I'm just dealing in facts.  England's votes Tory (who float between quite far right of centre and extreme right wing) 75% of the time.  Scotland hasn't voted Tory since before Elvis released his first single.  We also have a more egalitarian legal system, and gave birth to socialism in Britain and the Labour party.  

[pandarilla]

I'm just dealing in facts.  England's votes Tory (who float between quite far right of centre and extreme right wing) 75% of the time.  Scotland hasn't voted Tory since before Elvis released his first single.  We also have a more egalitarian legal system, and gave birth to socialism in Britain and the Labour party.  

You're writing like everyone votes Tory in England, and no-one does up here.

The margins, at times, are quite fine.

The SNP still have a very centrist outlook, and genuine left wing groups like the greens or the socialist parties haven't ever really made a major breakthrough.

In England corbyn's Labour party held the Tories to a hung parliament a couple of years ago.

There is a difference, and I would go as far too see a clear one - but not as big as your posts suggest.

[Kuro]

Just now, pandarilla said:

You're writing like everyone votes Tory in England, and no-one does up here.

The margins, at times, are quite fine.

The SNP still have a very centrist outlook, and genuine left wing groups like the greens or the socialist parties haven't ever really made a major breakthrough.

In England corbyn's Labour party held the Tories to a hung parliament a couple of years ago.

There is a difference, and I would go as far too see a clear one - but not as big as your posts suggest.

You're misrepresenting my words.  You'll need to quote where I used the words everyone and noone.