New set up for next season

[gaz5]

Agree, but I do think we need to go into next season knowing what the plan is for 2020-21

Agreed.

My working assumption since nothing came from the AGM is that at this stage it will be conferences again, based on numbers. As you were, if your will.

A proposal would need to be voted on, to agree a new structure different to the one already in use?

I'm not fussed either way, I realise I'm in the minority, but with only 24 teams in Teir 7 I wrote like the conference's. Dare I say I actually prefer it to a traditional flat league structure. [emoji846]

These views are my own and I realise not everyone will agree. [emoji39]

[HibeeJibee]

24 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

Crichton of the SOS folded in 2016 & merged into Lochmaben. Also not this decade but Stranraer Athletic called it quits in 2008

Crichton as you say amalgamated with Lochmaben but that's a bit different to folding outright... There have been other examples of that like Tollcross + Tynecastle, Edinburgh Athletc + Leith Athletic and Lothian Thistle + Hutchison Vale though granted those did not involve shifting to a different town. If you go back over 10yrs you find Stranraer Athletic as you note and Dumfries - plus Tarff in 2003 which was more of a Selkirk scenario.


Fact remains that to have only lost 5 senior clubs in 10yrs, but for 4 of those to have been Borders clubs in the last 4yrs, is highly alarming.

Others like HtB might disagree, but I put the "demise" of Borders football down to 5 factors:

(1) historical oversupply of teams compared to population - which is now coming home to roost;

(2) demographics - Borders population is stable or even growing slightly, but aging, with notably fewer young people staying to work plus more elderly moving in to retire... council is on record as being worried about this long-term;

(3) appeal of Border Amateur League - some decry it as parochialism, or players not challenging themself, but it's a fact that few amateur clubs have folded whereas in the central belt vast numbers have i.e. contracting players pool is manifesting itself differently;

(4) rugby is always a special challenge for players given its unusual popularity in the Borders - though they too have been contracting with 2nd / 3rd XVs folding;

(5) pyramid system has opened up more competition and reduced incentive for Lothians players to travel down.

Put it together and you've a combination of fewer local players + fewer coming down from the Lothians = fewer teams, but the pinch falling on senior not amateur clubs.

Edited June 9, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[Burnie_man]

Agreed.

My working assumption since nothing came from the AGM is that at this stage it will be conferences again, based on numbers. As you were, if your will.

A proposal would need to be voted on, to agree a new structure different to the one already in use?

I'm not fussed either way, I realise I'm in the minority, but with only 24 teams in Teir 7 I wrote like the conference's. Dare I say I actually prefer it to a traditional flat league structure. [emoji846]

These views are my own and I realise not everyone will agree. [emoji39]

I would like to see a First Division. There has to come a time when new applicants join at tier 8 and we settle down into a structure that doesn't need tinkering every season.

Either way, I hope a decision is made before we kick off again.

[LongTimeLurker]

Think they've come up with a really good format for the conferences  and shouldn't bump new applicants down to tier 8 until the PWG meetings reach some sort of definitive resolution, which they didn't last season.

[gaz5]

I would like to see a First Division. There has to come a time when new applicants join at tier 8 and we settle down into a structure that doesn't need tinkering every season.

Either way, I hope a decision is made before we kick off again.

I think when we can get to 16, same as the premier, is be comfy with that. My concern is that would only leave 8 in Teir 8 if no one applied.

I don't think 12 team league's is enough, 22 games isn't enough and playing each other 3 teams undesirable as well.

Ideally we would go to 3 Tiers when we have 32 teams, 16 each.

Keeps it consistent from LL down, especially if the West did come in as a Unit and creates a greater argument for a 16 team Tier 4 (which I'd also prefer to 10).

Again, just my inner monologue there though, will play in whatever setup exists to play in..[emoji846]

[Burnie_man]

Think they've come up with a really good format for the conferences  and shouldn't bump new applicants down to tier 8 until the PWG meetings reach some sort of definitive resolution, which they didn't last season.

To coin a phrase, new applicants will have had their chance. Tier 6 last season, tier 7 this season. If they still haven't applied by now then the EoS should get on and set the structure even if that means tier 8 for new clubs.

Of course, if there was some sort of organised merger then that would be a different matter entirely, but there's no sign of that happening.

[heedthebaa]

5 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Others like HtB might disagree, but I put the "demise" of Borders football down to 5 factors:

(1) historical oversupply of teams compared to population - which is now coming home to roost;

(2) demographics - Borders population is stable or even growing slightly, but aging, with notably fewer young people staying to work plus more elderly moving in to retire... council is on record as being worried about this long-term;

(3) appeal of Border Amateur League - some decry it as parochialism, or players not challenging themself, but it's a fact that few amateur clubs have folded whereas in the central belt vast numbers have i.e. contracting players pool is manifesting itself differently;

(4) rugby is always a special challenge for players given its unusual popularity in the Borders - though they too have been contracting with 2nd / 3rd XVs folding;

(5) pyramid system has opened up more competition and reduced incentive for Lothians players to travel down.

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that HJ. My personal opinion is a lack of players, especially quality players. compared to the central belt. Players leaving the area for work or uni, even managers seem now to be in short supply. For me most borders players dont really have that confidence or arrogance at Eos level neither. I certainly wouldn’t call any player that prefers to play amateur, at the end of the day, it’s all about enjoyment. I read somewhere lately that ‘toonies’ aren’t made welcome down here now, which imo isn’t right, what I think that wrangled borders folk was the quality that started coming down. I watched Coldstream for many years and they had a good mixture of local and toonie in many seasons. Work patterns have changed, the traditional tradesmen hours for most just aren’t there with shifts including weekends. I’m not 100% sure, but at one stage was there not 3 teams in Eyemouth ? Utd and two ammie teams, there once was Copath, Reston, St Abbs thistle, Ayton, 2 teams in Chirnside and Duns. Hopefully after the years up Eyemouth re group, but as you say it’ll be difficult to do

[HibeeJibee]

43 minutes ago, heedthebaa said:

I’m not 100% sure, but at one stage was there not 3 teams in Eyemouth ? Utd and two ammie teams, there once was Copath, Reston, St Abbs thistle, Ayton, 2 teams in Chirnside and Duns. Hopefully after the years up Eyemouth re group, but as you say it’ll be difficult to do

Situation in Berwickshire... widened to encompass Berwick + Kelso... is apocalyptic mate:

Berwick Rangers EOS - folded 2014
Kelso Utd - folded 2015
Duns - folded 2016
Eyemouth Utd - folded 2019

St Abbs - folded 1988
Eyemouth Legion - folded 1992
Kelso Legion - folded 2001
Cockburnspath - became Dunbar Amateurs in 2003, folded in 2006
Ayton - folded 2005
Tweedmouth Ams Colts - folded 2012
Chirnside Colts - folded 2014
Eyemouth Ams - folded 2015

Until a few years ago you also had Farne playing from Foulden, and Springhill from Berwick, playing in NNL?


Coldstream and Tweedmouth... Chirnside, Duns Ams, Earlston, Gordon, Greenlaw, Kelso Ams, Kelso Thistle, Lauder, Berwick Rangers Colts, Highfields, Coldstream Ams, Tweedmouth Ams and Tweedmouth Harrow... Spittal Rovers... remain.

Edited June 9, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[heedthebaa]

7 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Situation in Berwickshire... widened to encompass Berwick + Kelso... is apocalyptic mate:

Berwick EOS - folded 2014
Kelso Utd - folded 2015
Duns - folded 2016
Eyemouth Utd - folded 2019

St Abbs - folded 1988
Eyemouth Legion - folded 1992
Kelso Legion - folded 2001
Cockburnspath - became Dunbar Amateurs in 2003, folded in 2006
Ayton - folded 2005
Tweedmouth Ams Colts - folded 2012
Chirnside Colts - folded 2014
Eyemouth Ams - folded 2015

Until a few years ago you also had Farne playing from Foulden, and Highfields and Springhill from Berwick, in NNL?


Coldstream and Tweedmouth... Chirnside, Duns Ams, Earlston, Gordon, Greenlaw, Kelso Thistle, Lauder, Coldstream Ams, Tweedmouth Ams and Tweedmouth Harrow... Spittal... remain.

Aye that’s sad and the biggest blow is Berwick now loosing league status 

[FairWeatherFan]

The EoS board has some new faces for the coming season.

John Greenhorn (Ormiston) chairman
Drew Beveridge (Burntisland Shipyard) vice chairman
Alistair Wilkie (Tynecastle) treasurer
Brian Balmbro (Coldstream)
Lesley Birrell (Preston Athletic)
Paul MacGregor (Tranent Juniors)
Rory Mutter (Hill Of Beath Hawthorn)
Jim Provan (Broxburn Athletic)
Tom Thornton (Haddington Athletic)

[heedthebaa]

9 minutes ago, gogsy said:

EOS league facebook states Eyemouth have one year  non playing membership rather than folded.

We know 

[Ginaro]

10 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Just that hibbeejibee had folded in an earlier post.

(Obviously hibeejibee himself hasn't folded, more that his post says Eyemouth had)

HibeeJibee2019 for the forthcoming season?

[HibeeJibee]

Think you're splitting hairs on my list's terminology. Ultimately their senior team has folded, closed-down, suspended, gone into hibernation whatever... but they hope to restart for 2020-21.

There is actually no such thing as abeyance or non-playing membership in the rulebook, IIRC. However, as with Duns previously, perfectly reasonable for the EOS board to rubberstamp them remaining as non-voting members for 12 months and waive obligations to participate in competitions.

Lets hope it ends differently to Duns, and indeed Kelso, who both initially hoped to return but were ultimately unable. Prospect of no adult football team in Eyemouth is a depressing thought. You've to go back a long way but Selkirk successfully returned after 2 seasons out of the game in 1986.

Edited June 10, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[HibeeJibee]

3 minutes ago, gogsy said:

They could take inspiration from Penicuik they were out for years before they returned, think they were still going as a club though, fund raising etc?

If anything Eyemouth's lack of an amateur side, while meaning no existing adult team to draw upon, could give vital extra impetus.

Duns and Kelso United (by merging with Kelso Thistle) fell back on BAL teams and ultimately never went beyond them.

[db11]

19 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Think you're splitting hairs on my list's terminology. Ultimately their senior team has folded, closed-down, suspended, gone into hibernation whatever... but they hope to restart for 2020-21.

There is actually no such thing as abeyance or non-playing membership in the rulebook, IIRC. However, as with Duns previously, perfectly reasonable for the EOS board to rubberstamp them remaining as non-voting members for 12 months and waive obligations to participate in competitions.

Lets hope it ends differently to Duns, and indeed Kelso, who both initially hoped to return but were ultimately unable. Prospect of no adult football team in Eyemouth is a depressing thought. You've to go back a long way but Selkirk successfully returned after 2 seasons out of the game in 1986.

Hj did this have a bearing on their shafting by stirling albion ??

[heedthebaa]

5 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

If anything Eyemouth's lack of an amateur side, while meaning no existing adult team to draw upon, could give vital extra impetus.

Duns and Kelso United (by merging with Kelso Thistle) fell back on BAL teams and ultimately never went beyond them.

I’m sure lads have tried to start the amateur side back up recently, but were unsuccessful 

[HibeeJibee]

1 minute ago, db11 said:

Hj did this have a bearing on their shafting by stirling albion ??

Directly. In order to retain their SFA membership and South Qualifying Cup place... no abeyance or non-playing membership there either... they got Selkirk Victoria players to 'ghost' for them in order to fulfil their obligations. In the first season they got a R1 bye, then a fortuitous draw against Glasgow University in R2 who they beat after a replay, then pulled off a shock by beating Annan 2-1 in R3 which put them into SFs (where they got thrashed 6-0 by Gala after replay) and qualified them for the Scottish Cup. There they infamously succumbed 20-0 at Stirling Albion.

Following season they again got a R1 bye, then drew Gala in R2 and exited 3-0 after replay. Incidentally the same season Aberdeen Uni forget to put in their cheque and lost SFA membership.

I actually have a relative who was an unused sub for Selkirk up at Stirling, although he's never spoken to me about the experience. Then again he is the man not good enough to get into a team which lost 20-0...

[Doonhamer1969]

4 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Directly. In order to retain their SFA membership and South Qualifying Cup place... no abeyance or non-playing membership there either... they got Selkirk Victoria players to 'ghost' for them in order to fulfil their obligations. In the first season they got a R1 bye, then a fortuitous draw against Glasgow University in R2 who they beat after a replay, then pulled off a shock by beating Annan 2-1 in R3 which put them into SFs (where they got thrashed 6-0 by Gala after replay) and qualified them for the Scottish Cup. There they infamously succumbed 20-0 at Stirling Albion.

Following season they again got a R1 bye, then drew Gala in R2 and exited 3-0 after replay. Incidentally the same season Aberdeen Uni forget to put in their cheque and lost SFA membership.

I actually have a relative who was an unused sub for Selkirk up at Stirling, although he's never spoken to me about the experience. Then again he is the man not good enough to get into a team which lost 20-0...

After which game the Selkirk goalie famously said live on tv 'i thought i played no to bad' !!

[rhliston]

4 hours ago, Doonhamer1969 said:

After which game the Selkirk goalie famously said live on tv 'i thought i played no to bad' !!

I was at that the game and to be fair to the Selkirk goalie I thought he had not a bad game considering he let in 20 goals.  Lets face it Gianluigi Buffon in goal would have made no difference to the scoreline. 

 

[Marten]

8 minutes ago, rhliston said:

I was at that the game and to be fair to the Selkirk goalie I thought he had not a bad game considering he let in 20 goals.  Lets face it Gianluigi Buffon in goal would have made no difference to the scoreline. 

 

That makes me think of when I visited Fort William last season. They were hammered, but in my opinion their goalkeeper was the best man on the pitch. It's just a shame for him that what was in front of him was so useless!