Killie's "European" Tour 2019/20

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Seeded in the first play off round not beyond that would need an awful lot of luck to go through two rounds wolves in the second qualifying round is possible

[craigkillie]

Wolves would be about the worst draw possible in that round. I was hoping for a trip to the San Siro, but I'll take Roma now.

[Radford]

16 hours ago, craigkillie said:

People constantly say stuff like this about every club, but I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get to the group stage. We'd have to win four knockout ties, three of which we'd be unseeded for. Rangers managed that last season, but that was very rare, and they obviously have much bigger resources than we do.

You maybe know the numbers yourself but when I looked in the summer of 2017, only three teams (not including Fair Play entrants) had made it from QR1 to the group stage since 2009:

Rosenborg (12/13, 15/16), Gabala (15/16, 16/17) and Maccabi Tel Aviv (16/17).

Would need to check back on their coefficients and seeding but IIRC, Rosenborg and Macca Tel Aviv were certainly strong. 

What you want depends on your aims and how your squad will be looking come the first tie? Some of the teams that Saints had to field in Europe were depressing, we started one game with Scott Brown and Tam Scobbie in midfield, with Liam Caddis and Chris Kane on the wings. That came after a gruelling away leg in the 40°C heat of Yerevan that crippled half our squad.

Then you get the teams with no coefficient that turn out to be backed by money men and have a splattering of real quality. FK Trakai had a few very good players that have moved on to better things and they nearly made it to QR4 despite being one of the lowest ranked teams. 

If you want to definitely progress then pray for clubs from other Celtic nations is what I'd say. Not that teams from eastern Europe etc... can't be beaten but there are so many unknowns with them. They obviously offer the more exciting trips though. 

Hope you get through against whoever you get and draw the glamour tie. 

[Guest DAVIDB69]

It shows you how difficult Europe is unseeded first qualifying round teams include Debrecen of Hungary sure they have gone pretty far in qualifiers in recent years and a name from the past in university Craiova of Rumania

[tarapoa]

2 hours ago, DAVIDB69 said:

 and a name from the past in university Craiova of Rumania

Semi-finalists in the 1983 UEFA Cup

Saint & Greavise highlights, with proper grainy footage and loads of army in the crowd.

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by tarapoa

[BillyAnchor]

6 hours ago, Radford said:

You maybe know the numbers yourself but when I looked in the summer of 2017, only three teams (not including Fair Play entrants) had made it from QR1 to the group stage since 2009:

Rosenborg (12/13, 15/16), Gabala (15/16, 16/17) and Maccabi Tel Aviv (16/17).

Would need to check back on their coefficients and seeding but IIRC, Rosenborg and Macca Tel Aviv were certainly strong. 

What you want depends on your aims and how your squad will be looking come the first tie? Some of the teams that Saints had to field in Europe were depressing, we started one game with Scott Brown and Tam Scobbie in midfield, with Liam Caddis and Chris Kane on the wings. That came after a gruelling away leg in the 40°C heat of Yerevan that crippled half our squad.

Then you get the teams with no coefficient that turn out to be backed by money men and have a splattering of real quality. FK Trakai had a few very good players that have moved on to better things and they nearly made it to QR4 despite being one of the lowest ranked teams. 

If you want to definitely progress then pray for clubs from other Celtic nations is what I'd say. Not that teams from eastern Europe etc... can't be beaten but there are so many unknowns with them. They obviously offer the more exciting trips though. 

Hope you get through against whoever you get and draw the glamour tie. 

What could be more exciting than Northern Ireland?

[craigkillie]

You maybe know the numbers yourself but when I looked in the summer of 2017, only three teams (not including Fair Play entrants) had made it from QR1 to the group stage since 2009:
Rosenborg (12/13, 15/16), Gabala (15/16, 16/17) and Maccabi Tel Aviv (16/17).
Would need to check back on their coefficients and seeding but IIRC, Rosenborg and Macca Tel Aviv were certainly strong. 
What you want depends on your aims and how your squad will be looking come the first tie? Some of the teams that Saints had to field in Europe were depressing, we started one game with Scott Brown and Tam Scobbie in midfield, with Liam Caddis and Chris Kane on the wings. That came after a gruelling away leg in the 40°C heat of Yerevan that crippled half our squad.
Then you get the teams with no coefficient that turn out to be backed by money men and have a splattering of real quality. FK Trakai had a few very good players that have moved on to better things and they nearly made it to QR4 despite being one of the lowest ranked teams. 
If you want to definitely progress then pray for clubs from other Celtic nations is what I'd say. Not that teams from eastern Europe etc... can't be beaten but there are so many unknowns with them. They obviously offer the more exciting trips though. 
Hope you get through against whoever you get and draw the glamour tie. 

I think it has become a tiny bit more likely for teams to get through all four rounds now, since fewer teams actually join the competition in the later qualifiers. It's still an incredibly long shot for a club the size of Killie.

Our squad will probably be in OK shape - of the team that beat Rangers on the last day, only Mulumbu isn't under contract for next season. Obviously we don't currently have a manager, but you'd imagine whoever it is might be happy to avoid disrupting a settled team too much in the short term.

Looking at the list right now, I wouldn't mind Estonia, Latvia or Malta in the first qualifiers and then Frankfurt, Espanyol or Roma in the next one.

[tarapoa]

23 hours ago, Radford said:

Then you get the teams with no coefficient that turn out to be backed by money men and have a splattering of real quality. FK Trakai had a few very good players that have moved on to better things and they nearly made it to QR4 despite being one of the lowest ranked teams. 

If you want to definitely progress then pray for clubs from other Celtic nations is what I'd say. Not that teams from eastern Europe etc... can't be beaten but there are so many unknowns with them. They obviously offer the more exciting trips though. 

Hope you get through against whoever you get and draw the glamour tie. 

We have done QR1 three times, and Radford is correct is that it's a mixed bag of gimmes and banana skins.

It started in late June previously, so I think it's to the Scots clubs' advantage that it's gone to mid July.  The balance before between players getting a decent break and actually being able to get enough training to get some sharpness and being to form some kind of squad was hard to strike with that early start.

If QR1 can be negotiated, it can give you an extra 10-20% on a club coming in for their first match of the season at QR2 and I am convinced AFC would not have beaten Groningen and Rijeka without the 180mins of football beforehand.

The first year we were in under McInnes we got Daugava Riga (Latvia), who were quite possibly the worst team ever witnessed at Pittodrie, and brutal with it.  

The following season, we went to (North) Macedonia to play a club called Shkendija, and it was chalk and cheese from the previous season - and perhaps we had been lulled into a false sense of security.  This lot were slick and backed by crazy ethnic Albanian fans.  We scraped through on away goals, after a fraught last 20 at Pittodrie - and some of that side's results since have demonstrated they're decent.

The next season it was Fola Esch, and much as we laughed at Sevco's travails against Luxembourg opponents, we almost went the same away. After toiling to an eventually acceptable 3-1 at home, we were appalling on a hot afternoon over there, and only the post saved us from going out.   The 'seeded' Latvian side Ventspils we got in the following round ended up being much easier opposition.

I would agree that the safest draw would be a complete minnow, but they are few and far between and now there is a preliminary round to get rid of some of them.  Northern Ireland would be a good outcome, as based on recent experience, would be Latvian opponents.................though some of us still have the scars of Skonto Riga 1994.

 

 

 

[craigkillie]

I agree that Northern Ireland or Wales would be best from a footballing perspective, but I also don't really want to go to Northern Ireland or Wales.

[TavTastic]

On 26/05/2019 at 15:51, craigkillie said:

People constantly say stuff like this about every club, but I don't think you realise how difficult it is to get to the group stage. We'd have to win four knockout ties, three of which we'd be unseeded for. Rangers managed that last season, but that was very rare, and they obviously have much bigger resources than we do.

We were very lucky with the draws that we got too. Maribor the perfect draw and Ufa/Osijek quite good ones as well.

[superkillieaway]

Icelandic tie for me. Easy to fly to from Canada.... anywhere but very Far East will be good for me. 

Very excited to be in this part of the forum 

[Squirrelhumper]

10 hours ago, superkillieaway said:

Icelandic tie for me. Easy to fly to from Canada.... anywhere but very Far East will be good for me. 

Very excited to be in this part of the forum 

Been there, done that. f**k that.

[ayrshire_nomad]

Malta or cypress please

[killiefan27]

Some mob from the Faroes then Roma.

I can't see us having any chance of making the group stage, so I'd love a proper big hitter.

(I am aware that Roma would absolutely slaughter us)

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, killiefan27 said:

Some mob from the Faroes then Roma.

I can't see us having any chance of making the group stage, so I'd love a proper big hitter.

(I am aware that Roma would absolutely slaughter us)

I would like something very similar.  If we're not going to make the groups then we might as well go down in style rather than losing on away goals to a team from Slovenia.

[Squirrelhumper]

15 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I would like something very similar.  If we're not going to make the groups then we might as well go down in style rather than losing on away goals to a team from Slovenia.

Malta then Roma please.

[gannonball]

19 hours ago, killiefan27 said:

Some mob from the Faroes then Roma.

I can't see us having any chance of making the group stage, so I'd love a proper big hitter.

(I am aware that Roma would absolutely slaughter us)

I would have fancied Killie to make more of a fist of Europe under Clarke than Aberdeen but not now so I can understand the blaze of glory Leroy Jenkins approach.

[craigkillie]

35 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I would have fancied Killie to make more of a fist of Europe under Clarke than Aberdeen but not now so I can understand the blaze of glory Leroy Jenkins approach.

I think this post betrays a lack of understanding about just how difficult it is for any Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers to "make a fist of Europe". We would need to win 4 ties to make it to the group stage, and we would be unseeded for 3 of those (potentially 2 if we take on the seeding of a team we beat, but even still our opponents would probably be higher ranked than us).

In all of those seasons where Aberdeen have "failed" in your eyes, they have matched or outperformed their seeding. They have beaten Groningen, Rijeka and Ventspils whilst being unseeded and their only defeat as a seeded side was against Kairat after they took on Rijeka's seeding. Kairat went on to only lose to Bordeaux on away goals in the next round.

This idea that they've failed in Europe is based on unrealistic expectations from outside rather than a genuine lack of progress. Last season (against Burnley) was the first time they'd failed to win at least one tie.

[gannonball]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

I think this post betrays a lack of understanding about just how difficult it is for any Scottish club other than Celtic or Rangers to "make a fist of Europe". We would need to win 4 ties to make it to the group stage, and we would be unseeded for 3 of those (potentially 2 if we take on the seeding of a team we beat, but even still our opponents would probably be higher ranked than us).

In all of those seasons where Aberdeen have "failed" in your eyes, they have matched or outperformed their seeding. They have beaten Groningen, Rijeka and Ventspils whilst being unseeded and their only defeat as a seeded side was against Kairat after they took on Rijeka's seeding. Kairat went on to only lose to Bordeaux on away goals in the next round.

This idea that they've failed in Europe is based on unrealistic expectations from outside rather than a genuine lack of progress. Last season (against Burnley) was the first time they'd failed to win at least one tie.

I don't why you have quoted that nor did I say anything like that I just thought Clarke was a better tactician and has more european contacts and operates under less pressure. Overall a better chance of success in Europe for me.

Also Whilst Aberdeen like ourselves have some bad results (not really under McInnes though) I don't think there team is as good as it was with the likes of Hayes, Shinnie and Mclean gone so its only going to be harder for them now imo. 

[LondonHMFC]

Malta is an outstanding away trip, went over to watch West Ham narrowly beat Birkirkara. Andorra was good as well, and easy enough to get to. Even Domzale in Slovenia was a decent away trip. To be honest, wherever you are drawn is going to be good, you are in Europe with your chums. Enjoy it.