Who replaces Cove?

[welshbairn]

41 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

 

I agree they should not be forced to move anywhere, in which case the Licence should be removed.   If they don't join the Pyramid, they are not compliant.

Don't see why. The HL are happy going with an odd number, BOD would rather stay where they are and they're not blocking anyone else, nobody has applied. Their ground is good enough for Cup games. Who's losing here?

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Don't see why. The HL are happy going with an odd number, BOD would rather stay where they are and they're not blocking anyone else, nobody has applied. Their ground is good enough for Cup games. Who's losing here?

It's not a question of losing, it's a question of meeting the terms of the SFA Licence.  There's 6 clubs further south who know all about that.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

It's not a question of losing, it's a question of meeting the terms of the SFA Licence.  There's 6 clubs further south who know all about that.

You'd have something that looked like a functioning pyramid because the only club that met the requirements of the HL in the Superleague came top and there happened to be a vacancy in the HL without a demotion. That's not a pyramid. What rules have they broken?

Edited May 24, 2019 by welshbairn

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You have something that looked like a functioning pyramid because the only club that met the requirements of the HL in the Superleague came top and there happened to be a vacancy in the HL. That's not a pyramid. What rules have they broken?

It's the double standard. Clubs in the Lowland League area have been told to sign up for a pyramid league LL, SoS and EoS in order to get licensed. Whereas by a quirk of history BoD are able to publicly reject a pyramid league that literally invited them to join. All while retaining their license.

[Burnie_man]

8 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Even if the licence has nothing to do with the pyramid?

Clubs should not be forced to do anything they are not happy with. There is no automatic or compulsory promotion between the North Juniors Superleague and the pyramid, clubs should be allowed to gain licences as for meeting criteria set by the SFA and should not have this taken away just because they do not wish to play in a league they are not happy competing in.

Where does it say that in order to be compliant for a licence does a football club have to be forced into entering level 5 in the football pyramid?

Why pick on Banks O' Dee anyway, should every club below tier 5 or outside the pyramid have their licences removed?

 

You cannot obtain a Licence unless you move into a Pyramid League.  That is why current Junior clubs cannot obtain a Licence unless they move into a league which is part of the Pyramid.

That's the basics.

Now that there is an obvious vacancy in the HL (Pyramid) and Banks O'Dee have been invited to join and refused, they are not complying with the terms of their Licence.  Now you could be harsh and also apply that to Golspie.

The SFA have chosen to intepret the Licence and SFA membership criteria in a very black and white way in the case of the 6 EoS clubs who have been refused, they now need to apply that same black & white judgement of those licence holders who are not complying and sit outside the Pyramid through choice.

They can't be allowed to have their cake and eat it. Nobody else can.

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Burnie_man

[welshbairn]

The circumstances are totally different. The Highland League has been around for ages and there's no practical way of setting up a pyramid below it without tons of money that doesn't exist, and that nobody wants. In the South they were trying to set up an entirely new structure so coercion was applied. In the North it's not practical or needed, so why punish a Northern club with good enough facilities for the Cup by applying Southern Pyramid rules? It would be petty in the extreme.

Edited May 24, 2019 by welshbairn

[Burnie_man]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You'd have something that looked like a functioning pyramid because the only club that met the requirements of the HL in the Superleague came top and there happened to be a vacancy in the HL without a demotion. That's not a pyramid. What rules have they broken?

"The applicant club shall declare it's committment to participate in the Pyramid system by submitting a decleration to that effect to the Scottish FA at the time of [membership] submission"

Banks O'Dee (and Linlithgow) were halfway through their Licence application process when this requirement came in, but they got away with (unlike Bonnyrigg/5 others/floodlights), so surely this ruling must now be applied retrospectively now that we know a vacancy exists in the HL and BoD are refusing.

There has to be an even playing field here.

 

[Burnie_man]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

The circumstances are totally different. The Highland League has been around for ages and there's no practical way of setting up a pyramid below it without tons of money that doesn't exist, and that nobody wants. In the South they were trying to set up an entirely new structure so coercion was applied. In the North it's not practical or needed, so why punish a Northern club with good enough facilities for the Cup by applying Southern Pyramid rules? It would be petty in the extreme.

There are no "Southern Pyramid Rules", there are rules, the HFL is a Pyramid league, and BoD are a club who are sitting outside the Pyramid despite there being vacancies.

There's nothing harsh about it.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

"The applicant club shall declare it's committment to participate in the Pyramid system by submitting a decleration to that effect to the Scottish FA at the time of [membership] submission"

Banks O'Dee (and Linlithgow) were halfway through their Licence application process when this requirement came in, but they got away with (unlike Bonnyrigg/5 others/floodlights), so surely this ruling must now be applied retrospectively now that we know a vacancy exists in the HL and BoD are refusing.

There has to be an even playing field here.

 

Applying rules "retrospectively" to sort a problem that doesn't exit. Aye, that sounds fair.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Applying rules "retrospectively" to sort a problem that doesn't exit. Aye, that sounds fair.

Well it would be fair to those clubs who were unfairly refused derogation.

You can't pick and choose when to apply the rules.  It's no different to the three Lowland clubs without lights who will now need to install them or lose their Licence (and Lowland League place as a result), why shouldn't the same requirement apply to Banks O'Dee?

I'm sure the other North Superleague clubs really appreciate their £15-£20k financial advantage every season as well.

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Well it would be fair to those clubs who were unfairly refused derogation.

 

They would gain nothing by BOD losing their license. Nobody would. The other North Super League teams probably enjoy having some decent facilities for a change. You're trying to judge the situation up here by your great Southern battle between Senior and Junior. It doesn't exist up here. Nobody's bothered.

[Burnie_man]

41 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

They would gain nothing by BOD losing their license. Nobody would. The other North Super League teams probably enjoy having some decent facilities for a change. You're trying to judge the situation up here by your great Southern battle between Senior and Junior. It doesn't exist up here. Nobody's bothered.

I'm afraid you dont get to turn this into a North v South debate.  The rules on Licencing are applied equally regardles of location, and that is the bottom line.  As it stands, Banks O'Dee enjoy an SFA Licence which provides them with a huge financial advantage over their rivals (maybe explains why they annex the league and cups so often) whilst not committing to the full requirements that everyone else has to.  Neither can their Junior rivals ever apply for the same Licence. Nobody bothered?

That will end, either by the SFA removing the Licence if they want to remain a Junior club, or by BoD joining the Pyramid. If my club decide to leave the EoS and go back Junior, we'd lose our Licence and rightly so.

I suspectthe SFA will push the issue once the West Region Juniors come on board.  Girvan will then enter the Pyramid, and the option will be there for Glasgow Uni to do likewise to retain their Licence.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Burnie_man

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I'm afraid you dont get to turn this into a North v South debate.  The rules on Licencing are applied equally regardles of location, and that is the bottom line.  As it stands, Banks O'Dee enjoy an SFA Licence which provides them with a huge financial advantage over their rivals (maybe explains why they annex the league and cups so often) whilst not committing to the full requirements that everyone else has to.  Neither can their Junior rivals ever apply for the same Licence. Nobody bothered?

None of their junior rivals have invested anything like as much in local football for all age groups. That should be encouraged by the SFA, and not punished retrospectively by a rule that didn't exist when they got their license. They think they'd be worse off in the HL, and less able to provide these facilities and training. Elgin could well be back in the HL next season, and you lot in the South can worry about some other imbalance in your pretty pyramid.

Edited May 24, 2019 by welshbairn

[Strathman]

Banks O Dee  won 8-0 tonight against the team who finished second  in the league, Bridge of Don Thistle,  in a Cup Final tonight. That means they have had a clean sweep locally. They also lost in the final in two Aberdeenshire Cups where all their opposition was Highland League. 

I see them as having three options.

1. Status Quo. Huge fish in a small pool.

2.  Highland League

3  Have a right go at being a top Junior side nationally.  

 

They have played  Talbot and Kilwinning away this season losing narrowly. On both occasions many of their first choice players were unavailable.  That is no use if you want to compete at that level.  Level being capable of winning the Junior Cup.

I think they should have one more season Junior and agree a deal with the Highland League to join the following season whatever the number of clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Strathman said:

Banks O Dee  won 8-0 tonight against the team who finished second  in the league, Bridge of Don Thistle,  in a Cup Final tonight. That means they have had a clean sweep locally. They also lost in the final in two Aberdeenshire Cups where all their opposition was Highland League. 

I see them as having three options.

1. Status Quo. Huge fish in a small pool.

2.  Highland League

3  Have a right go at being a top Junior side nationally.  

 

They have played  Talbot and Kilwinning away this season losing narrowly. On both occasions many of their first choice players were unavailable.  That is no use if you want to compete at that level.  Level being capable of winning the Junior Cup.

I think they should have one more season Junior and agree a deal with the Highland League to join the following season whatever the number of clubs.

 

 

 

 

 

I think they should too, just not forced to when randomly a place becomes available. 

[Burnie_man]

None of their junior rivals have invested anything like as much in local football for all age groups. That should be encouraged by the SFA, and not punished retrospectively by a rule that didn't exist when they got their license. They think they'd be worse off in the HL, and less able to provide these facilities and training. Elgin could well be back in the HL next season, and you lot in the South can worry about some other imbalance in your pretty pyramid.

Sigh.

[Burnie_man]

Banks O Dee  won 8-0 tonight against the team who finished second  in the league, Bridge of Don Thistle,  in a Cup Final tonight. That means they have had a clean sweep locally. They also lost in the final in two Aberdeenshire Cups where all their opposition was Highland League. 
I see them as having three options.
1. Status Quo. Huge fish in a small pool.
2.  Highland League
3  Have a right go at being a top Junior side nationally.  
 
They have played  Talbot and Kilwinning away this season losing narrowly. On both occasions many of their first choice players were unavailable.  That is no use if you want to compete at that level.  Level being capable of winning the Junior Cup.
I think they should have one more season Junior and agree a deal with the Highland League to join the following season whatever the number of clubs.
 
 
 
 
 

A great illustration of what the financial advantage of having a Licence (which no other club in their league can get) can help you achieve. No worries though, I'm sure everyone is cool with it!

[LongTimeLurker]

I suspect the rumoured associate member proposal at the upcoming SFA AGM might change their attitude on HL membership, if it means they lose their annual licence related cash injection that funds their dominance of the NRSJFA.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I think they should too, just not forced to when randomly a place becomes available. 

It's not random they were invited and rejected the invitation.

Also the Highland League isn't a closed shop, how is it that a place has only now become available?

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

None of their junior rivals have invested anything like as much in local football for all age groups.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/football-development/clubs/find-a-club/north-region/

Going by the SFA's Quality Mark scheme there's quite a few Junior clubs that seem to meet the same performance level as Banks O'Dee.

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

11 hours ago, welshbairn said:

None of their junior rivals have invested anything like as much in local football for all age groups. That should be encouraged by the SFA, and not punished retrospectively by a rule that didn't exist when they got their license. They think they'd be worse off in the HL, and less able to provide these facilities and training. Elgin could well be back in the HL next season, and you lot in the South can worry about some other imbalance in your pretty pyramid.

Sigh.

Sorry, got a bit carried away last night. BoD indicating here that they don't want to stay in the Super League forever.

Quote

However, the North Region Superleague champions rejected the possibility of SHFL membership.

Banks o' Dee chairman Brian Winton said the timing was not right.

"There are several reasons for it - we embarked four or five years ago on a strategy to get our SFA licence, we signed up to the pyramid system, we've done massive upgrades to the facilities, installed astrograss, built floodlights, built two new stands," he explained.

"We're currently going through another upgrade to the stand, new boardroom, new facilities, disabled area, and we've got aspirations to do more next summer.

"Our operational funding is constrained because we've got a big capital programme going on, and I think it's the right thing for Banks o' Dee - I'm trying to build a club sustainable in the long-term and to be ready for any future possibilities that come along."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-48381160