Who replaces Cove?

[FairWeatherFan]

So we're even now 1-1. The Highland League rejected BoD. Now BoD have rejected the Highland League.

Don't tell me it's another 10 years before Round 3?

[Cyclizine]

1 hour ago, Spyro said:

Shitebags, although maybe time for the HL to wake up from their dormant state and create an exciting league that teams actually WANT to enter

Bollocks. It'll be a competitive league next season. What exactly do you want the HFL to do? They can't reduce their entry criteria. It's up to the NCL, NRJFA and North of Tay ERJFA clubs to decide if they fancy a step up. No-one should be forcing them, the North clubs are amateurs in all but name and the ERJFA clubs don't care. I'm all for a pyramid, but if the clubs don't care, or don't think it worthwhile, there's no way they should be forced into someone's fantasy structure against their will.

[Jimmy Shaker]

Shitebags, although maybe time for the HL to wake up from their dormant state and create an exciting league that teams actually WANT to enter

Man, you don’t half cry like a pussy about this for some reason.

[FairWeatherFan]

I've seen some people say that the HFL accepting the ICT Colts would void the league's participation in the SPFL Play-off. I haven't seen that in any of the rules. The Pyramid Play-off rules only seem to use the league's Champion club has to meet the SPFL membership criteria to participate.

And the HFL, unlike the LL, doesn't have a specific rule banning more than one team in leagues governed by the Professional Game Board. The only sticking point in the current HFL rules is that have to have full membership to the SFA. Would a 2nd XI be covered by ICT's membership?

[HibeeJibee]

It has always been understood that 'B' teams would not be allowed into these sorts of levels; and indeed LL's rule is worded as if it applies across the whole (not just their half). Probably it was never conceived that it could occur in HL and so no equivalent rule was put in place. After all there were no levels below for such teams to come from and in its entire 125-year history there's never been such a team with the exception of Aberdeen 'B' for a few years in the 1910s and a single season in 1924-25. Were this loophole to make it possible for Inverness 'B' to join at tier 5 of the pyramid it would be deeply troubling: not only for the integrity of HL and potentially of the pyramid playoff, but as it would undoubtedly be cited to press for OF 'B' teams in SPFL itself. It shouldn't happen unilaterally.

As regards BoD - they can cite short notice now, perhaps justifiably, but if HL opens-up applications for 2020-21 they surely have to choose.

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

Bollocks. It'll be a competitive league next season. What exactly do you want the HFL to do? They can't reduce their entry criteria. It's up to the NCL, NRJFA and North of Tay ERJFA clubs to decide if they fancy a step up. No-one should be forcing them, the North clubs are amateurs in all but name and the ERJFA clubs don't care. I'm all for a pyramid, but if the clubs don't care, or don't think it worthwhile, there's no way they should be forced into someone's fantasy structure against their will.

They could lower their entry criteria if they created a tier 6...

Then allow promotion/relegation with all the perks of the current HL for the licensed clubs that are involved within 2 stronger 10 team leagues

Something like this...

Plan.pdf

Edited May 23, 2019 by Spyro

[Dysart]

The HL really need to look to restructuring, whether its east and west divisions or first and second.  At the moment, 17/18 teams with no relegation and the possibility of the likes of Brora running away with title means for a hell of a lot of meaningless fixtures.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Dysart said:

The HL really need to look to restructuring, whether its east and west divisions or first and second.  At the moment, 17/18 teams with no relegation and the possibility of the likes of Brora running away with title means for a hell of a lot of meaningless fixtures.

Clach are unlikely in the immediate future to be bottom or top, but I saw lots of good games although we had a bad season. It's about improving your position in the league, not just winning it or coming bottom. If we managed to make the top 10 next season it would be a great success.

Edited May 23, 2019 by welshbairn

[FairWeatherFan]

The meaningless fixtures argument doesn't really hold since the league has only had a Championship to play for since its existence. One of the ways to counteract that is Cup competitions. You've got the Highland League Cup for everyone, the North of Scotland Cup, the Aberdeenshire Cup and Aberdeenshire Shield. In the last ten years since the league went back to 18 clubs you've had 4 different champions and 13 clubs total have won something.

[AngusTheBull]

Perhaps I’m misremembering, but was there not a situation a few years ago where BoD had applied to the HL and Cove rejected their application (or at least it was known Cove would reject their application if BoD submitted one) on the basis that they didn’t want another team from Aberdeen in the HL. Seem to recall a situation where there was known to be a bit of bad blood between the two chairmen and was part of the reason Cove ended up playing in Inverurie (and wherever else) during their ‘homeless days’. 

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, AngusTheBull said:

Perhaps I’m misremembering, but was there not a situation a few years ago where BoD had applied to the HL and Cove rejected their application (or at least it was known Cove would reject their application if BoD submitted one) on the basis that they didn’t want another team from Aberdeen in the HL. Seem to recall a situation where there was known to be a bit of bad blood between the two chairmen and was part of the reason Cove ended up playing in Inverurie (and wherever else) during their ‘homeless days’. 

Ahead of the 2009-10 season there were 4 clubs applying to joing the Highland League: Banks o'Dee, Formartine United, Turriff United and Strathspey Thistle. Each of the 15 existing members got to pick 3 clubs.

Turriff United (15 votes), Strathspey Thistle (14 votes), Formartine United (11 votes) and Banks o'Dee (5 votes).

So ten clubs never voted for Banks o'Dee. By most accounts at the time they were also the applicant that put the least effort into the process ,with the same sort of humming and hawing we're seeing now.

[Jimmy Shaker]

It’s football. Every fucking game is meaningless. It’s a knockabout to keep us busy on weekends.

[HibeeJibee]

14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

So ten clubs never voted for Banks o'Dee. By most accounts at the time they were also the applicant that put the least effort into the process ,with the same sort of humming and hawing we're seeing now.

Tbf, I don't remember this explanation being so prominent at the time. It certainly only become front-n-centre in recent years (including a myth they didn't attend meeting). Back in 2009 they were Aberdeenshire FA members, had all facilities in place whereas some others didn't have stands/lights and were way ahead in terms of league position. Their rejection caused amazement, and plenty claims it was a reverse of the Meadowbank Thistle situation, i.e. that they were rejected as they were the best.

That AFA point - they were already in Aberdeenshire Cup, Shield and U21s league and had been for a few years - is often forgotten. They actually reached Shield final shortly before the vote.


It's worth saying there was a "gentlemans agreement" to admit at least 1 North of Scotland club to maintain a balance of power. This meant Strathspey were stick-ons.

Among the 3 other applicants BoD had won North Juniors previous season/were top; Turriff had finished 7th/were battling relegation; Formartine had been relegated/were high up 2nd tier.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said:

Tbf, I don't remember this explanation being so prominent at the time. It certainly only become front-n-centre in recent years (including a myth they didn't attend meeting). Back in 2009 they were Aberdeenshire FA members, had all facilities in place whereas some others didn't have stands/lights and were way ahead in terms of league position. Their rejection caused amazement, and plenty claims it was a reverse of the Meadowbank Thistle situation, i.e. that they were rejected as they were the best.

That AFA point - they were already in Aberdeenshire Cup, Shield and U21s league and had been for a few years - is often forgotten. They actually reached Shield final shortly before the vote.


It's worth saying there was a "gentlemans agreement" to admit at least 1 North of Scotland club to maintain a balance of power. This meant Strathspey were stick-ons.

Among the 3 other applicants BoD had won North Juniors previous season/were top; Turriff had finished 7th/were battling relegation; Formartine had been relegated/were high up 2nd tier.

And Formartine's pitch was a sodden bog for years, usually unplayable. All very fishy.

[HibeeJibee]

54 minutes ago, AngusTheBull said:

Perhaps I’m misremembering, but was there not a situation a few years ago where BoD had applied to the HL and Cove rejected their application (or at least it was known Cove would reject their application if BoD submitted one) on the basis that they didn’t want another team from Aberdeen in the HL. Seem to recall a situation where there was known to be a bit of bad blood between the two chairmen and was part of the reason Cove ended up playing in Inverurie (and wherever else) during their ‘homeless days’. 

Cove played some games at BoD during their "homeless years". Funding for their 3G pitch meant it had to be used by BoD youth teams when their first-team was away - and so this restricted outside use to Fridays, Sundays and public holidays. I can recall Cove playing a few games there on Friday evenings against Aberdeenshire teams and also at least one on or about Boxing Day.
 

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

And Formartine's pitch was a sodden bog for years, usually unplayable. All very fishy.

Also the explanation has morphed over time. It began that BoD was considered so far ahead on and off the park - which frankly they were - that it wasn't (or shouldn't have depending on your perspective) considered necessary for them to heavily canvas. This then became an explanation for their failing to obtain enough votes... this then became an explanation that they weren't up for it... most recently you've had myths like them not attending or 'refusing' to give a presentation.


Btw I think the "meaningless games" issue does differ in HL.

Historically, until the Irn-Bru Cup slots, there was never anything tangible to play for beyond finishing 1st... being a standalone, 1-division setup.

Edited May 23, 2019 by HibeeJibee

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, HibeeJibee said:

Tbf, I don't remember this explanation being so prominent at the time. It certainly only become front-n-centre in recent years (including a myth they didn't attend meeting). Back in 2009 they were Aberdeenshire FA members, had all facilities in place whereas some others didn't have stands/lights and were way ahead in terms of league position. Their rejection caused amazement, and plenty claims it was a reverse of the Meadowbank Thistle situation, i.e. that they were rejected as they were the best.

That AFA point - they were already in Aberdeenshire Cup, Shield and U21s league and had been for a few years - is often forgotten. They actually reached Shield final shortly before the vote.


It's worth saying there was a "gentlemans agreement" to admit at least 1 North of Scotland club to maintain a balance of power. This meant Strathspey were stick-ons.

Among the 3 other applicants BoD had won North Juniors previous season/were top; Turriff had finished 7th/were battling relegation; Formartine had been relegated/were high up 2nd tier.

When FitbaNorth dig up the threads for the 10 year anniversary I went through them since everyone was mentioning that BoD never even turned up to the presentation. Which is something that appears to be a myth as it was never mentioned at the time.

When I say that BoD put the least amount of effort i'm talking about Formartine right out of the gate applying in August 2008. Turrif United quickly follow with their intention to apply. During this all the speculation from posters was that BoD would be the best candidate, but publicly the club doesn't do anything. By some point in September with 2 applicants already and supposed interest from others the HFL set an application deadline for January 2009.

How I summed up BoD's efforts in deciding to apply in "The Last Expansion..." thread

Quote

Banks o'Dee dither through much of the process. Suggestions in October of not being keen, November having a vote to apply to cover themselves. Which was quickly followed by another meeting to stay Junior.

They would obviously go through with the application. Strathspey don't apply until the end of 2008.

Once the 4 applicants were known and the vote happened this appeared to be the basic idea of how it played out:

Quote

Fortmartine United were reported to have campaigned the hardest throughout including midweek trips to meet other clubs. Strathspey are meant to have benefited from the North of Scotland FA. Banks o'Dee gave mixed messages throughout. Turriff United on the other hand appear to have played their cards close to their chest during the entire process.

 

[Cyclizine]

2 hours ago, Spyro said:

They could lower their entry criteria if they created a tier 6...

Then allow promotion/relegation with all the perks of the current HL for the licensed clubs that are involved within 2 stronger 10 team leagues

Something like this...

Plan.pdf

Why is it incumbent on the HFL to set up a division at tier 6? If there are clubs interested, they can surely facilitate it themselves. We've seen from the juniors' survey, there's not a huge amount of interest in the North. Again, I'm not against the pyramid, I think it's something to aspire to: but I'm a pragmatist and you have to work with what you've got; rather than forcing clubs into something they don't want.

[Highland Capital]

8 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

 

Aviemore away is up there with Oban away in terms of what has the potential to be a tremendous away day.

 

Could Oban Saints ever make the step up to any sort of level?  I imagine as amateur clubs go they must be one of the bigger ones.

[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Highland Capital said:

Could Oban Saints ever make the step up to any sort of level?  I imagine as amateur clubs go they must be one of the bigger ones.

I believe Oban fall just South of the current HL/LL boundary. If the West of Scotland ever gets something organised pyramid wise they could end up at some lower level.

[HibeeJibee]

2 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Why is it incumbent on the HFL to set up a division at tier 6? If there are clubs interested, they can surely facilitate it themselves. We've seen from the juniors' survey, there's not a huge amount of interest in the North. Again, I'm not against the pyramid, I think it's something to aspire to: but I'm a pragmatist and you have to work with what you've got; rather than forcing clubs into something they don't want.

It's true than onus doesn't rest on HL alone. Equally no-one is going to bother forming (say) a Northern League without confirmation it would get promotion/relegation into HL. That would be daft.

Bit of chicken-and-egg here all round. HL clubs were also lukewarm to the pyramid; ultimately they voted 16-1 in favour of joining (only Buckie against and Cove absent IIRC). SFA proposed a 10-team Highland Regional Division with HL below; HL clubs then decided to join en masse. Etc. etc.

Tbf it also seems to be a confused picture. Did not almost every Junior club vote in favour of joining the pyramid at last years SJFA AGM? I recall less than a handful voted against? However it seems at HL-North Juniors meeting a majority were against linking-up.