Cove Thread

[CoveRangers1922]

34 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Taken me ages to find this and i doubt anyone cares here, but MOH also has arguably one of the best St Johnstone photos ive ever seen.

Destroyed Morton that night single handedly.

Hoping for more of the same today! A debut goal and 3 points would be perfect given our situation right now

[CoveRangers1922]

Couldn't hold a piss let alone a lead.

2 weeks on the spin but this week we retreated far early, showed nothing as an attacking threat in the second half and invited pressure. Heard Reynolds was at fault for giving away a needless pen which hit the bar and went in off of Fox. Stramash for the 2nd.

We're bleeding goals. Our only tactic when we have a slender lead can't be to have everyone behind the ball and try to deal with wave after wave of attack. Need some kind of release on the break or someone to hold it up.

Unless we get a CB back in before Tuesday night we'll need a prayer to avoid 10th. Only a draw on Friday night avoids us slipping into 9th before Dundee the day after.

On a positive note MOH sounded like he had a decent debut given his serious lack of game time. Should do well for us and if we can get Blair back, keep 2 up top we might be able to return to scoring a few at least.

Edited February 25, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[tree house tam]

21 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Taken me ages to find this and i doubt anyone cares here, but MOH also has arguably one of the best St Johnstone photos ive ever seen.

Destroyed Morton that night single handedly.

A wee bit of context with this photo as it doesn't show the full picture. Mikey has beaten all of the players in shot, as well as a couple of others not in shot and is about to rifle it into the net past the keeper. This after Morton had taken an early lead and were giving it the "We're better than you" pish.

This was also a night it took the poster about half an hour to get to Greenock from Perth, hitting Glasgow in rush hour. Halcyon days. 

[CoveRangers1922]

So with loan window closing last night I thought it's time for a review on our winter "recruitment" conducted by Hartley. I say recruitment as it's been a demoralising attempt at scraping the barrel and getting the dregs.

Hartley said himself that he's missed countless players due to them getting offered FT football. So as much as I'm disappointed with what we've taken in it's an incredibly tight market and the players who could make the difference to us are lured by other factors namely being full time. Hartley has also said Cove will go FT next season, Hybrid I suspect and I also suspect only if we stay up. It's imperative that we do but nowhere near a certainty. Big task ahead

 

So grand total of 9 signings; 5 loans, 2 short term deals and 2 18 month contracts.

Before going through each signing, it was disappointing that we didn't utilise our last remaining loan; our final throw of the dice if you will. We were crying out for another centre back given we are bleeding goals and with Jack Sanders now idling in the Killie reserves having been left out of the last 2 matchday squads something has gone awry.

I suspect this was a get it up you to Cove for McInnes' pal McIntyre getting the sack after his first heavy defeat. McInnes gave Jack a solo minute in injury time against Dundee United on 1st February and hence limiting his loan options.  Out of contract in the summer I suspect he would have been itching to play to put himself in the shop window. He's one that I'd love to see us PCA for next year. Will have admirers from both sides of the borders.

1.Declan Glass (Signed 6th Jan) LOAN

Hartley's first signing since his return was to go for a player who lit it up for us previously, albeit we were in L2 a the time. Personally I thought this was a decent bit  of business at the time but it hasn't worked out so far. Played in the demolition 6-0 home defeat to Queen's Park at Balmoral on Hartley's return. Looked like a wee boy up against men. Struggled to get any game time since and been an unused sub in the last 4 games. He's got ability no doubt but is a luxury type player who we can't afford when we've not got majority of the possession or high calibre DCM's to win it back for him.

Got a year left on his Dundee United. Will never get that extended and could be shown the door prior.

Verdict: RETURN, keep if in L1

2.Brody Paterson (Signed 9th Jan) LOAN

LB signed on loan from Hartlepool. So another Hartley knew well. A position we needed to fill with the outstanding Max Johnston being recalled to Motherwell. Now looks to be attracting interest from Bologna! Prior to Max we had Harry Milne so never was going to be easy to find a third gem.

Brody played a couple of games, looked fine defensively having never played in the Scottish Championship before but looked limited going forward. Probably a very able L1 LB but unsure if he's Championship material. Been injured the last month, on crutches and out for the rest of the season I'd imagine

Verdict: KEEP if we go down

3.Scott Fox (Signed 17th Jan) PERMANENT

A signing that did not need to be made. No better, actually worse, than Stuart McKenzie who was wrongly ousted out. Surprisingly small, takes forever to kick the damn ball, poor distribution, quiet as a mouse. Has had some impressive saves but a howler at Dens to go with it.

18 month contract.

Verdict: MOVE ON if we could, 2nd choice keeper if not

4.Tony Weston (Signed 17th Jan) LOAN

Teeny Tiny Tony Weston. Signed on loan from Rangers where he'll be moved on from this summer at contract expiry. Barely featured for us and rightly so. Busy but too small and not physical enough to compete at this level. Completely the wrong choice of forward for us given we needed height, strength and target man attributes. In his first interview with us he said he thought he was going to need to drop down to L1 before Cove expressed an interest. Should have gone down a level.

Wasted loan for both parties

Verdict: RETURN

5.Miko Virtanen (Signed 23rd Jan) PERMANENT

I hoped for a player similar to Blair Yule but nowhere near it unfortunately. Supposedly had one good game at Thistle but ordinarily would be nowhere near our starting XI if Yule and Fyvie were fit. Really poor replacement for Gilmour who was injured prior to Christmas against Accies and subsequently recalled.

Miko failing so much we've drafted Vigurs back into the frame. Latter doing not bad considering he can barely move.

Signed until the end of the season. I would show him the door now if it was down to me.

Verdict: MOVE ON

6.Jason Naismith (Signed 27th Jan) PERMANENT 

Such a meh signing. From Killie and Spiders fans we heard he's on the downward spiral and I would agree with that. Not done anything majorly wrong in his appearances but he's average at best in all departments. Only just away to turn 29 so has years ahead but we gambled here on a name and it's ok at very best. Been playing RB as Brody got injured and Shay needed to move to his position. Probably better at CB

Verdict: MOVE ON (if we could) or sub in Championship. Could be ok in L1

7.David Bangala (Signed 1st Feb) LOAN

Desperation signing when we knew Blair was going to be out a while along with Fyvie requiring an operation on his ankle and being out for the season. Can't really think of any strengths he has. Every pass is sideways or back, no creativity or ability on the ball. Positionally isn't great and doesn't track his man tight enough. 

Last few games he's been a sub for us. Would be our 4th or 5th choice CM normally. Don't see him staying at Ayr long before leaving the Scottish game.

Verdict: RETURN

8.Gimie Toure (Signed 3rd Feb) PERMANENT

Signed on a short term deal until the end of the season. Not really had a lot of game time. Left Winger / forward who has a bit of trickery and pace. Supposedly had a good 6 month spell at Hartlepool a few years back scoring 13 goals. Got a "big" move to Carlisle before going down the way. Could chip in something for us but I doubt he's anything special and will be away in the summer regardless of where we finish.

Verdict: MOVE ON

9.Michael O'Halloran (Signed 24th Feb) LOAN 

Only signed the day before the away loss to Morton at Cappielow. This is our most promising signing on paper and I'm sure it will turn out to be the case. Needs minutes in his legs but pace, directness and should get some goals and assists for us. 

We'll need the best out of him to save ourselves.

Verdict: Extremely early but on his past and ability KEEP 

 

So only 1 out of 9 I'd really want to keep here. It was always going to be tough to get the right players in but I never imagined we'd end up in such a state. 

Yule and Fyvie both being out are massive losses for Cove. 

 

Outs (8 in total): Leitch (Kelty) , Masson (unattached) , McKenzie (Peterhead), McDonagh (Scunthorpe), Johnston (recall Motherwell), Sanders (return Killie), Gilmour (return St Johnstone), Evan Towler (return Aberdeen)

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[CoveRangers1922]

Just now, CoveRangers1922 said:

So with loan window closing last night I thought it's time for a review on our winter "recruitment" conducted by Hartley. I say recruitment as it's been a demoralising attempt at scraping the barrel and getting the dregs.

Hartley said himself that he's missed countless players due to them getting offered FT football. Hartley has also said Cove will go full time next season, Hybrid I suspect and I also suspect only if we stay up. It's imperative that we do but nowhere near a certainty. Big task ahead

 

So grand total of 9 signings; 5 loans, 2 short term deals and 2 18 month contracts.

Before going through each signing, it was disappointing that we didn't utilise our last remaining loan; our final throw of the dice if you will. We were crying out for another centre back given we are bleeding goals and with Jack Sanders now idling in the Killie reserves having been left out of the last 2 matchday squads something has gone awry.

I suspect this was a get it up you to Cove for McInnes' pal McIntyre getting the sack after his first heavy defeat. McInnes gave Jack a solo minute in injury time against Dundee United on 1st February and hence limiting his loan options.  Out of contract in the summer I suspect he would have been itching to play to put himself in the shop window. He's one that I'd love to see us PCA for next year. Will have admirers from both sides of the borders.

1.Declan Glass (Signed 6th Jan) LOAN

Hartley's first signing since his return was to go for a player who lit it up for us previously, albeit we were in L2 a the time. Personally I thought this was a decent bit  of business at the time but it hasn't worked out so far. Played in the demolition 6-0 home defeat to Queen's Park at Balmoral on Hartley's return. Looked like a wee boy up against men. Struggled to get any game time since and been an unused sub in the last 4 games. He's got ability no doubt but is a luxury type player who we can't afford when we've not got majority of the possession or high calibre DCM's to win it back for him.

Got a year left on his Dundee United. Will never get that extended and could be shown the door prior.

Verdict: RETURN, keep if in L1

2.Brody Paterson (Signed 9th Jan) LOAN

LB signed on loan from Hartlepool. So another Hartley knew well. A position we needed to fill with the outstanding Max Johnston being recalled to Motherwell. Now looks to be attracting interest from Bologna! Prior to Max we had Harry Milne so never was going to be easy to find a third gem.

Brody played a couple of games, looked fine defensively having never played in the Scottish Championship before but looked limited going forward. Probably a very able L1 LB but unsure if he's Championship material. Been injured the last month, on crutches and out for the rest of the season I'd imagine

Verdict: KEEP if we go down

3.Scott Fox (Signed 17th Jan) PERMANENT

A signing that did not need to be made. No better, actually worse, than Stuart McKenzie who was wrongly ousted out. Surprisingly small, takes forever to kick the damn ball, poor distribution, quiet as a mouse. Has had some impressive saves but a howler at Dens to go with it.

18 month contract.

Verdict: MOVE ON if we could, 2nd choice keeper if not

4.Tony Weston (Signed 17th Jan) LOAN

Teeny Tiny Tony Weston. Signed on loan from Rangers where he'll be moved on from this summer at contract expiry. Barely featured for us and rightly so. Busy but too small and not physical enough to compete at this level. Completely the wrong choice of forward for us given we needed height, strength and target man attributes. In his first interview with us he said he thought he was going to need to drop down to L1 before Cove expressed an interest. Should have gone down a level.

Wasted loan for both parties

Verdict: RETURN

5.Miko Virtanen (Signed 23rd Jan) PERMANENT

I hoped for a player similar to Blair Yule but nowhere near it unfortunately. Supposedly had one good game at Thistle but ordinarily would be nowhere near our starting XI if Yule and Fyvie were fit. Really poor replacement for Gilmour who was injured prior to Christmas against Accies and subsequently recalled.

Miko failing so much we've drafted Vigurs back into the frame. Latter doing not bad considering he can barely move.

Signed until the end of the season. I would show him the door now if it was down to me.

Verdict: MOVE ON

6.Jason Naismith (Signed 27th Jan) PERMANENT 

Such a meh signing. From Killie and Spiders fans we heard he's on the downward spiral and I would agree with that. Not done anything majorly wrong in his appearances but he's average at best in all departments. Only just away to turn 29 so has years ahead but we gambled here on a name and it's ok at very best. Been playing RB as Brody got injured and Shay needed to move to his position. Probably better at CB

Verdict: MOVE ON (if we could) or sub in Championship. Could be ok in L1

7.David Bangala (Signed 1st Feb) LOAN

Desperation signing when we knew Blair was going to be out a while along with Fyvie requiring an operation on his ankle and being out for the season. Can't really think of any strengths he has. Every pass is sideways or back, no creativity or ability on the ball. Positionally isn't great and doesn't track his man tight enough. 

Last few games he's been a sub for us. Would be our 4th or 5th choice CM normally. Don't see him staying at Ayr long before leaving the Scottish game.

Verdict: RETURN

8.Gimie Toure (Signed 3rd Feb) PERMANENT

Signed on a short term deal until the end of the season. Not really had a lot of game time. Left Winger / forward who has a bit of trickery and pace. Supposedly had a good 6 month spell at Hartlepool a few years back scoring 13 goals. Got a "big" move to Carlisle before going down the way. Could chip in something for us but I doubt he's anything special and will be away in the summer regardless of where we finish.

Verdict: MOVE ON

9.Michael O'Halloran (Signed 24th Feb) LOAN 

Only signed the day before the away loss to Morton at Cappielow. This is our most promising signing on paper and I'm sure it will turn out to be the case. Needs minutes in his legs but pace, directness and should get some goals and assists for us. 

We'll need the best out of him to save ourselves.

Verdict: Extremely early but on his past and ability KEEP 

 

So only 1 out of 9 I'd really want to keep here. It was always going to be tough to get the right players in but I never imagined we'd end up in such a state. 

Yule and Fyvie both being out are massive losses for Cove. 

 

Outs (8 in total): Leitch (Kelty) , Masson (unattached) , McKenzie (Peterhead), McDonagh (Scunthorpe), Johnston (recall Motherwell), Sanders (return Killie), Gilmour (return St Johnstone), Evan Towler (return Aberdeen)

 

Next season we'll look very different regardless of the division we are in. If we're still in the Championship then I suspect nearly all of the above will go and so will all of our out of contract players (Ross, Gourlay, Reynolds, Leitch, Leighton). 

We only have 8 in contract (Mitch, Blair, Scully, Logan, Neill, Vigurs, Fox, Naismith). I wouldn't even be surprised one or two of them moving on too. Likes of Vigurs, Neill etc.

It's going to be another rebuild...Can Hartley recruit quality if he can attract FT players?

If we go down can he recruit PT players needed to get us promoted. I haven't rated many of his signings in the past. He's been fortunate to have a solid group to start with, but that's by and large gone now, and added Aberdeen lads unlikely to have moved away at their stage in life (Rory, Shay, Fyvie, Reynolds, Vigurs)

 

[CoveRangers1922]

Cove sign Jackson Longridge on loan from Livi

Kyle, who was hopeless and a liability goes back to Hibs

Interested to hear;

"Strenuous attempts were made throughout the transfer window, right up until last night’s deadline, to further strengthen our front line, but we were continually frustrated in our efforts to do so.

 

We were also close to securing a midfielder yesterday, but again, that fell through at the last minute, so there will be no further additions to the squad."

 

 

https://coverangersfc.com/2023/03/01/longridge-is-signing-number-ten/

Edited March 1, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[Tattie36]

Question for Cove fans… well fan really

Is there a feeling at the club that punting McIntyre was a monumental feck up?

He had you playing ok and picking up a few good results, particularly at home. I reckon you would have ended up lower mid table reasonably comfortably.

Also, how much longer can Hartley realistically get? Aside from the win at Partick and (predictable) draw v us, Cove have been horrendous since he returned.

Edited March 18, 2023 by Tattie36

[Dunning1874]

Cove under McIntyre: P19 W5 D6 L8. 10 points clear of 10th and 4 clear of 9th, 1.1 points per game.

Cove under Hartley: P10 W1 D2 L7. 0.5 points per game, now only 1 point from 10th.

An absolutely massive regression. If McIntyre had that record after 10 games he'd certainly have been gone.

[CoveRangers1922]

31 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

Question for Cove fans… well fan really

Is there a feeling at the club that punting McIntyre was a monumental feck up?

He had you playing ok and picking up a few good results, particularly at home. I reckon you would have ended up lower mid table reasonably comfortably.

Also, how much longer can Hartley realistically get? Aside from the win at Partick and (predictable) draw v us, Cove have been horrendous since he returned.

Definitely a thought now amongst the Cove fans. 

My thought is that McIntyre wouldn't have been able to strengthen us or add that much quality in the winter window as the loans/signings that did happen were limited. 

We would have lost Johnston back to Motherwell and Gilmour back to St Johnstone due to injury but I definitely feel we would have been able to keep Jack Sanders who transformed our weak centre back area.

Fyvie and Yule both are massive misses for us. Mitch and Scully also missed a few games since the turn of the year. So that would have happened and impacted us regardless of manager.

One thing for certain is Hartley's recruitment has been atrocious. No getting away from that

 

 

[CoveRangers1922]

19 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Cove under McIntyre: P19 W5 D6 L8. 10 points clear of 10th and 4 clear of 9th, 1.1 points per game.

Cove under Hartley: P10 W1 D2 L7. 0.5 points per game, now only 1 point from 10th.

An absolutely massive regression. If McIntyre had that record after 10 games he'd certainly have been gone.

Without a doubt he would have been gone. McIntyre might have us on a few more points if he stayed but see above. I doubt his recruitment and with our injuries he'd have fared much better. He patched us with 3 great late loan signings 

Edited March 18, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[Tattie36]

1 minute ago, CoveRangers1922 said:

Definitely a thought now amongst the Cove fans. 

My thought is that McIntyre wouldn't have been able to strengthen us or add that much quality in the winter window as the loans/signings that did happen were limited. 

We would have lost Johnston back to Motherwell and Gilmour back to St Johnstone due to injury but I definitely feel we would have been able to keep Jack Sanders who transformed our weak centre back area.

Fyvie and Yule both are massive misses for us. Mitch and Scully also missed a few games since the turn of the year. So that would have happened and impacted us regardless of manager.

One thing for certain is Hartley's recruitment has been atrocious. No getting away from that

 

 

Good honest assessment.

Just looks like a massive case of self sabotage

[Mr November]

@CoveRangers1922 I can't say I've seen Cove much this season but I felt one of their biggest strengths last season was an ability to score really late goals in games they hadn't played well in. It was most noticeable in the games v Airdrie, which were pretty even across the four games yet Cove produced a 94th minute winner, Fyvie's world class equaliser in what felt like the league decider and also two goals in the last 15 to win 2-0 earlier in the season. It happened other times too, the 1-1 draw at Queen's Park and a 1-0 win up at Peterhead spring to mind, and I think having the strength to produce in big moments was the main reason you won on the league ahead of Airdrie. I feel like that's not really been there this season though, particularly not for Hartley since he came back. 

Whatever league you're in next season, it's a massive summer for Hartley. It's possibly not a bad time for a rebuild but as you say, his recruitment record leaves a lot to be desired and doing it while going hybrid (if that's still happening?) is a gamble. Interesting to see how things go.

[CoveRangers1922]

14 minutes ago, Mr November said:

@CoveRangers1922 I can't say I've seen Cove much this season but I felt one of their biggest strengths last season was an ability to score really late goals in games they hadn't played well in. It was most noticeable in the games v Airdrie, which were pretty even across the four games yet Cove produced a 94th minute winner, Fyvie's world class equaliser in what felt like the league decider and also two goals in the last 15 to win 2-0 earlier in the season. It happened other times too, the 1-1 draw at Queen's Park and a 1-0 win up at Peterhead spring to mind, and I think having the strength to produce in big moments was the main reason you won on the league ahead of Airdrie. I feel like that's not really been there this season though, particularly not for Hartley since he came back. 

Whatever league you're in next season, it's a massive summer for Hartley. It's possibly not a bad time for a rebuild but as you say, his recruitment record leaves a lot to be desired and doing it while going hybrid (if that's still happening?) is a gamble. Interesting to see how things go.

This Cove side are a completely different beast to last season, especially since Christmas / loan window opened and since McIntyre departed. 

I remember saying last season that Airdrie would have been in a better position to go up than us due to being hybrid already, established and fit for purpose stadium and very well positioned geographically to attract players in and around the populous central belt. I stick to that statement. Also, if the Diamonds went up Murray and Easton might have stayed keeping a strong spine. We lost our manager and best player in Harry Milne as soon as L1 campaign finished.

We look fragile as hell. When we play well there is a bad luck story and when we play poorly we get destroyed by teams taking every chance they get.

I feel for Hartley to be honest. It's he who is responsible for recruitment, I understand that, but the winter window is hard to operate in and the quality of loans/signings were limited. All the best ones went to full time clubs (as expected). Rumours are we tried our hardest to get FT players to step down to PT but weren't willing.

I do agree with you though, I worry about him getting a big wedge of cash if we go FT (hybrid) in the championship. If we spend big we'll want to see instant results. Only hybrid if we stay up.

Diamonds scoring freely lately, very impressive. Should make the playoffs with a bit to spare.

[Tattie36]

Just now, CoveRangers1922 said:

This Cove side are a completely different beast to last season, especially since Christmas / loan window opened and since McIntyre departed. 

I remember saying last season that Airdrie would have been in a better position to go up than us due to being hybrid already, established and fit for purpose stadium and very well positioned geographically to attract players in and around the populous central belt. I stick to that statement. Also, if the Diamonds went up Murray and Easton might have stayed keeping a strong spine. We lost our manager and best player in Harry Milne as soon as L1 campaign finished.

We look fragile as hell. When we play well there is a bad luck story and when we play poorly we get destroyed by teams taking every chance they get.

I feel for Hartley to be honest. It's he who is responsible for recruitment, I understand that, but the winter window is hard to operate in and the quality of loans/signings were limited. All the best ones went to full time clubs (as expected). Rumours are we tried our hardest to get FT players to step down to PT but weren't willing.

I do agree with you though, I worry about him getting a big wedge of cash if we go FT (hybrid) in the championship. If we spend big we'll want to see instant results. Only hybrid if we stay up.

Diamonds scoring freely lately, very impressive. Should make the playoffs with a bit to spare.

I’ll better whisper this as some of my fellow Arbroath fans will disagree with me.

The only way to ensure long term survival at this level, or higher, is to go full-time or proper committed hybrid at the very least. We should have done it for this season. I can’t think of a single part-time team in recent years that has established themselves comfortably in the Championship (for more than 3 or 4 seasons) and pushing occasionally for the premiership. This season has absolutely reaffirmed that belief in me.

If clubs like Hamilton, Morton, Ayr, Airdrie, Livy etc can be full-time or hybrid and for Cove to be seriously considering it, then why not Arbroath?

Looking at some of the utter dross we’ve signed this season, and even some last season, shows that there’s very slim pickings when it comes to half decent part-time players.

[D'Jaffo]

Just now, Tattie36 said:

I’ll better whisper this as some of my fellow Arbroath fans will disagree with me.

The only way to ensure long term survival at this level, or higher, is to go full-time or proper committed hybrid at the very least. We should have done it for this season. I can’t think of a single part-time team in recent years that has established themselves comfortably in the Championship (for more than 3 or 4 seasons) and pushing occasionally for the premiership. This season has absolutely reaffirmed that belief in me.

If clubs like Hamilton, Morton, Ayr, Airdrie, Livy etc can be full-time or hybrid and for Cove to be seriously considering it, then why not Arbroath?

Looking at some of the utter dross we’ve signed this season, and even some last season, shows that there’s very slim pickings when it comes to half decent part-time players.

Full time at this level is not sustainable unless you have the investment. We are only safe so long as David Smith is our chairman and he’s going about putting revenue streams in place to make the club more self sustaining. It’s not the case at every club though and I doubt it would benefit Arbroath. Livingston will be fine as long as they are in the top flight but clubs like Airdrie and QOS will have to reconsider their position in the coming years I’d imagine. 
 

The reality is that clubs have a lifespan in terms of success. Arbroath won league one and then had a couple of seasons in the Championship, going close to winning it as well. You’re now on a downward spiral. Aging squad and not getting the same luck in transfer windows being the killing factors. You’ll likely go down, Campbell might leave and then you’ll go into another cycle that might last a few years. Such is the nature of clubs at this level. 

[CoveRangers1922]

23 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

I’ll better whisper this as some of my fellow Arbroath fans will disagree with me.

The only way to ensure long term survival at this level, or higher, is to go full-time or proper committed hybrid at the very least. We should have done it for this season. I can’t think of a single part-time team in recent years that has established themselves comfortably in the Championship (for more than 3 or 4 seasons) and pushing occasionally for the premiership. This season has absolutely reaffirmed that belief in me.

If clubs like Hamilton, Morton, Ayr, Airdrie, Livy etc can be full-time or hybrid and for Cove to be seriously considering it, then why not Arbroath?

Looking at some of the utter dross we’ve signed this season, and even some last season, shows that there’s very slim pickings when it comes to half decent part-time players.

From what I've seen this season I completely agree. There's little longevity for us and many other part time clubs at this level. Arbroath have done immensely well to be on their 4th successive season here.

You might get a golden crop of players for a few years all playing at or near their peak but it's incredibly difficult to constantly find and have the best PT players. You also need to be able to compliment that group with some quality loans as well and that is unstable and market dependant.

When Falkirk and Dunfermline return to the league it'll be even harder.

Cove threatened the thought of FT (hybrid to start with) last summer. Hindsight I would have loved to see how it would have planned out for us. IF we stay up it will happen and will need to or else it will be delaying the inevitable.

We have people associated with the club who can and would invest in our bid for FT but there would need to be a long term plan in place to grow revenue streams and develop off field aspects. Its been a rapid rise so the latter is naturally going to need time to catchup

Edited March 18, 2023 by CoveRangers1922

[Tattie36]

1 minute ago, D'Jaffo said:

Full time at this level is not sustainable unless you have the investment. We are only safe so long as David Smith is our chairman and he’s going about putting revenue streams in place to make the club more self sustaining. It’s not the case at every club though and I doubt it would benefit Arbroath. Livingston will be fine as long as they are in the top flight but clubs like Airdrie and QOS will have to reconsider their position in the coming years I’d imagine. 
 

The reality is that clubs have a lifespan in terms of success. Arbroath won league one and then had a couple of seasons in the Championship, going close to winning it as well. You’re now on a downward spiral. Aging squad and not getting the same luck in transfer windows being the killing factors. You’ll likely go down, Campbell might leave and then you’ll go into another cycle that might last a few years. Such is the nature of clubs at this level. 

I didn’t word my post very clearly. I don’t think Arbroath would ever be properly full-time, unless we made the Premiership but I definitely think a proper hybrid system is the way forward for us and many other teams at this level. As you say proper full-time football is unsustainable for most teams in Scotland, without a big investor, but there’s no reason why we can’t be hybrid. Many teams have established themselves in recent years as Premiership (occasional)/Championship (mostly)/L1 (at worst) and none have been part-time.

[CoveRangers1922]

6 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

I didn’t word my post very clearly. I don’t think Arbroath would ever be properly full-time, unless we made the Premiership but I definitely think a proper hybrid system is the way forward for us and many other teams at this level. As you say proper full-time football is unsustainable for most teams in Scotland, without a big investor, but there’s no reason why we can’t be hybrid. Many teams have established themselves in recent years as Premiership (occasional)/Championship (mostly)/L1 (at worst) and none have been part-time.

With the recent success for Arbroath, the money made and banked I thought there might have been the chance of taking a risk and going hybrid last summer. Financially a strong starting position to make a fist of it.

[Mr November]

43 minutes ago, CoveRangers1922 said:

This Cove side are a completely different beast to last season, especially since Christmas / loan window opened and since McIntyre departed. 

I remember saying last season that Airdrie would have been in a better position to go up than us due to being hybrid already, established and fit for purpose stadium and very well positioned geographically to attract players in and around the populous central belt. I stick to that statement. Also, if the Diamonds went up Murray and Easton might have stayed keeping a strong spine. We lost our manager and best player in Harry Milne as soon as L1 campaign finished.

We look fragile as hell. When we play well there is a bad luck story and when we play poorly we get destroyed by teams taking every chance they get.

I feel for Hartley to be honest. It's he who is responsible for recruitment, I understand that, but the winter window is hard to operate in and the quality of loans/signings were limited. All the best ones went to full time clubs (as expected). Rumours are we tried our hardest to get FT players to step down to PT but weren't willing.

I do agree with you though, I worry about him getting a big wedge of cash if we go FT (hybrid) in the championship. If we spend big we'll want to see instant results. Only hybrid if we stay up.

Diamonds scoring freely lately, very impressive. Should make the playoffs with a bit to spare.

Fragile is the last word I’d have used to describe Cove last season. I do agree, I think if Airdrie had went up we’d be steady around 7th or 8th, and I reckon Cove would have been the same if Hartley had stayed. It’s easy to see why losing your manager and best player, a new manager coming to a mixed reception, then your old manager returning would be unsettling. Perhaps a full summer under Hartley will see Cove return back to what they were previously but once you lose that momentum and mentality, it’s hard to get it back. 

Indeed, I’m still very wary of a tough run-in but if you can’t enjoy your team scoring six and seven then when can you! Every chance we meet again in the play-offs the way things are going, for what would be two very different games to last seasons battles. 

Some interesting points above about being full-time. At this point Airdrie have tried everything to get out of League One, from standard part-time, full-time but mostly youth players, best of the rest part-time, mixed hybrid and now hybrid but only with one confirmed part-time player. Ultimately I think being a full-time club outside the top flight is always going to be a losing battle in Scotland without external investment. There’s now the added difficulty of some part-time players being happy to take their Darvel money at an earlier age (I can’t blame them), particularly instead of travelling to Cove from the central belt, so recruitment is only going to get trickier.

Being part-time will always have a ceiling and I think Arbroath probably reached that last season but equally funding full-time football, particularly while being at the bottom of the full-time food chain, is no guarantee of success. I think a hybrid system is probably a good compromise for mid Championship to upper League One clubs going forward.

[CoveRangers1922]

5 minutes ago, Mr November said:

Fragile is the last word I’d have used to describe Cove last season. I do agree, I think if Airdrie had went up we’d be steady around 7th or 8th, and I reckon Cove would have been the same if Hartley had stayed. It’s easy to see why losing your manager and best player, a new manager coming to a mixed reception, then your old manager returning would be unsettling. Perhaps a full summer under Hartley will see Cove return back to what they were previously but once you lose that momentum and mentality, it’s hard to get it back. 

Indeed, I’m still very wary of a tough run-in but if you can’t enjoy your team scoring six and seven then when can you! Every chance we meet again in the play-offs the way things are going, for what would be two very different games to last seasons battles. 

Some interesting points above about being full-time. At this point Airdrie have tried everything to get out of League One, from standard part-time, full-time but mostly youth players, best of the rest part-time, mixed hybrid and now hybrid but only with one confirmed part-time player. Ultimately I think being a full-time club outside the top flight is always going to be a losing battle in Scotland without external investment. There’s now the added difficulty of some part-time players being happy to take their Darvel money at an earlier age (I can’t blame them), particularly instead of travelling to Cove from the central belt, so recruitment is only going to get trickier.

Being part-time will always have a ceiling and I think Arbroath probably reached that last season but equally funding full-time football, particularly while being at the bottom of the full-time food chain, is no guarantee of success. I think a hybrid system is probably a good compromise for mid Championship to upper League One clubs going forward.

Exactly once the momentum is lost is hard to regain it and given we've had essentially one rebuild in winter and if we do go down another will be happening in the summer it's no guarantee that we finding the winning formula to gun for the title or easily secure a playoff spot. Full time QoS proving it's not easy although I do think Bartley is a strong appointment and next season they will be pushing harder.

Cycles, setbacks and relegation happen to all clubs, we haven't experienced it yet in the SPFL yet but will one day inevitably and it's being able to bounce back.

Could very well meet in the playoffs. We have work to do to ensure we don't fall straight through the trap door first. Diamonds will be a strong test for anyone in the playoffs. Due a promotion for sure!

I agree with your points on points above on FT. We would definitely test the waters with hybrid before trying to stabilise as well as grow the structures off the field before going near to full time imo.