~The Sixth Sense~ Hamilton Academical 2019/2020 Thread

[JudgeFlash]

7 hours ago, accies1874 said:

The yearly forums are good for answering questions but not for making any changes. Our 'fan experience' is obviously shite - shite stadium, no atmosphere, low crowds, a bit too expensive - but we wouldn't really be complaining about that or engagement if we were doing alright. Not that I disagree with anything you've said.

 

 

The emptying stadium is becoming quite the talking point amongst scottish fans. Our season ticket price being on par with HEARTS for example, is pretty ludicrous. 

The club simply REFUSING to try strategies like "Student Tickets"  considering Hamilton actually has a university on it's doorstep and a massive college 4 miles from the stadium as well. Almost every club has student ticket pricing, except Hamilton. 
Actually, in 2019 we still didn't have a card machine in the ticket office to buy tickets, kits etc :|  So I won't hold my breath for any kind of relevant changes.


If I was part of the sales team at HAFC, I would be implementing at least 2-300 free tickets PER Week to fill the stands, targeting the local football and sports teams, not only does this show support for the local community (Not just addiction etc) it will also help generate income, as the people coming along with the free tickets will be purchasing food/drinks etc. 

The best thing to happen to Hamilton in recent times was finally getting the social media aspect of the club addressed *this was brought up at a fan forum years ago, including the desire for a proper club shop online* , however, even that has suddenly hit the brakes, theonline club shop has permanently out of stock adult shirts and the keen start from Marcus has become rather placid, standard post/pre match interviewing, not the behind the scenes we were beginning to see, or the "full match highlights" that was also discussed. 

 

The club is in serious trouble, dwindling numbers, terrible output on the pitch for large sections of the season and some supporters even WANTING To go to the championship, If we go down, I don't see us coming back up for a long long time. The question I've been asking myself is, why can Livingston do it with a lower budget and lower fan support, but Hamilton continually battling relegation. 

[Scotty Tunbridge]

Livingston have a board that probably cares more about football/results on the pitch than junkies that’ll be why.

[accies1874]

Sadly, a lot of those things just come down to appetite.

If you have a look at the official YouTube channel, you can see why content's dried up - it seldom broke 500 views. I'd love extended highlights/full matches but I'm probably one of 10 who would, never mind if you had to pay for it.

I really like Marcus, but if his job is to provide better content for existing for fans then that's fallen to the wayside, and if it's to grow our fanbase then that's way beyond any non-footballing person at the club.

RE free tickets to school kids: great in principle and if that can even attract one lifelong fan then it's worth it. However, imagine you were a kid who's used to watching world class players on the TV, or even a bunch of good OF players. You then rock up to our ambiguously named stadium and watch a team that loses the majority of games they play in a soulless stadium while taking a pitiful number of shots.

Meanwhile, half an hour away, you can watch a team that wins pretty much every week in front of big crowds. There's also a big chance that all of your friends and family will support this team.

I don't know if Livi pay higher wages than us (if they do it won't be by much), however they do have a really good manager and/or assistant and a recruitment strategy that's pretty remarkable just in terms of how much the players fit. If we signed Bartley or Dykes, would they have been as good for us? Would they f**k. Livi and St Johnstone are the two teams that fans usually compare us to, but they've each got folk in charge of their team who are good at their jobs - we've not had that in over five years.

[Owsley]

Just picked a club at random- Forfar Athletic - and looked at their website. Much better than ours. You can order shirts, including keeper's shirts, beanie hats. I tried to get a beanie hat in the tiny shop/office recently, they had none.

Forfar also have a lottery where you can win £3000. We don't even have a functioning 50/50 draw. Last night's prize was £80. That's utterly embarrassing. I was at an Albion Rovers game a few months ago. The crowd was 210 and yet the prize was £200. When you go through the turnstiles the seller or sellers are right there; at Accies the sellers are from the youth team and they stand at the trackside fence next to the programme seller and we don't sell many of them either (we are regularly voted worst programme in Scotland) The winner at Rovers donated the money back to the club, I doubt any of us would do that with Accies.

[yummy fur]

1 hour ago, JudgeFlash said:

 The question I've been asking myself is, why can Livingston do it with a lower budget and lower fan support, but Hamilton continually battling relegation. 

Livingston averaged just under 1000 fans more per home game than Accies last season and although that's more about away fans housed in a bigger ground than homes fans over 19 games that is a substantial difference in player budgets. Also like Accies1874 says they do have a manager who knows his preferred team, formation and style of play - sadly Brian Rice currently knows none of this.

In fairness to the Accies board there isn't much they haven't tried to increase crowds - lowest ticket prices in the league, bring a friend vouchers, 10p entry, £10 quid entry, 3 free child tickets per season ticket, £150 season tickets across the board, ticket giveaways aplenty - nothing has worked.  

I do worry about the future as reading between the lines the club is really struggling for cash, home attendances are falling alarmingly and both these factors are causing a vicious circle where the club is so reliant on away fans that decisions are being made alienating home fans which in turn alienates more home fans and makes us more reliant on away fans - and so it goes on.

 

[JudgeFlash]

2 hours ago, yummy fur said:

Livingston averaged just under 1000 fans more per home game than Accies last season and although that's more about away fans housed in a bigger ground than homes fans over 19 games that is a substantial difference in player budgets. Also like Accies1874 says they do have a manager who knows his preferred team, formation and style of play - sadly Brian Rice currently knows none of this.

In fairness to the Accies board there isn't much they haven't tried to increase crowds - lowest ticket prices in the league, bring a friend vouchers, 10p entry, £10 quid entry, 3 free child tickets per season ticket, £150 season tickets across the board, ticket giveaways aplenty - nothing has worked.  

I do worry about the future as reading between the lines the club is really struggling for cash, home attendances are falling alarmingly and both these factors are causing a vicious circle where the club is so reliant on away fans that decisions are being made alienating home fans which in turn alienates more home fans and makes us more reliant on away fans - and so it goes on.

 

I see the stats, they actually averaged over 800 more fans average per game, however once you take into the equation that Livingston host 3500 more fans than Accies 2 stands and gazeebo, you can start to see why.  

11	Livingston[a]	69,616	9,246	1,022	3,664	+171.8%
12	Hamilton Academical	53,760	5,827	1,135	2,829	−8.6%

 

 

This is last years...the year previous was 3095 average.  When you consider Accies now give 70% of seats to Rangers/Celtic, this is quite telling. I do also wonder, how many season tickets are actually purchased, as my previous season ticket seat was "purchased" by one of the charities, I asked if I could still have it and they be assigned another seat as I'd be paying and theirs was free, I was told no. This led to this season being the first season, I'm not buying a season ticket and pretty much sums up for me, how the club feels about loyal paying fans vs charity work. 

Edited February 13, 2020 by JudgeFlash

[JudgeFlash]

3 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Sadly, a lot of those things just come down to appetite.

If you have a look at the official YouTube channel, you can see why content's dried up - it seldom broke 500 views. I'd love extended highlights/full matches but I'm probably one of 10 who would, never mind if you had to pay for it.

I really like Marcus, but if his job is to provide better content for existing for fans then that's fallen to the wayside, and if it's to grow our fanbase then that's way beyond any non-footballing person at the club.

RE free tickets to school kids: great in principle and if that can even attract one lifelong fan then it's worth it. However, imagine you were a kid who's used to watching world class players on the TV, or even a bunch of good OF players. You then rock up to our ambiguously named stadium and watch a team that loses the majority of games they play in a soulless stadium while taking a pitiful number of shots.

Meanwhile, half an hour away, you can watch a team that wins pretty much every week in front of big crowds. There's also a big chance that all of your friends and family will support this team.

I don't know if Livi pay higher wages than us (if they do it won't be by much), however they do have a really good manager and/or assistant and a recruitment strategy that's pretty remarkable just in terms of how much the players fit. If we signed Bartley or Dykes, would they have been as good for us? Would they f**k. Livi and St Johnstone are the two teams that fans usually compare us to, but they've each got folk in charge of their team who are good at their jobs - we've not had that in over five years.

Marcus seems a nice chap, but he was brought in as to improve social media reach within the club, but instead has become more of a journalistic type, with lots of selfies included. We were told we'd be getting more in depth interviews, more full match highlights, commentary etc etc, instead we are treated to awkward interviews with very poor sound at times in changing rooms. 
With regards to the free tickets, they'd be hopefully coming with their entire team for a good time, I've seen teams from time to time come along and they do tend to get quite animated. It might not be what they're used to or expecting to see, however, I don't see any other way of attracting young support. 

 

According to articles I read last year, we actually had a higher average wage than St Mirren, Livi and Motherwell.

[Owsley]

I can't see Accies fans ever banding together in the way Motherwell and now Patrick are doing. A few years ago we had the Accies Trust. I was involved on the periphery and many fans didn't want to know because they felt it was cliquey. I remember the trust put on an excellent event, a Q & A night with referee Brian Winter. I think about forty showed up. The very nature of these trusts is that some will be in charge but I got the impression some fans weren't interested if them and their friends couldn't run it. 

[accies1874]

Brian Easton out for up to 12 weeks.

[G51 Red]

2 hours ago, Owsley said:

The very nature of these trusts is that some will be in charge but I got the impression some fans weren't interested if them and their friends couldn't run it. 

Some fans weren’t interested ( or were not wanted ) because of who was seen to be in charge ..... the old happy clappers v the doom mongers story ....

[G51 Red]

lifted this from Acciesworld ....Tumbelweed posted it ...

I agree with a lot of what is said .... Thoughts ?? 

 

I go pretty much every week and have done for years. This is the first season I can remember deciding not to go to some games because it's just not worth putting in the effort - I live far from Hamiton - to often get very little back from the team, and even less from the club who could not care less about fans individually or collectively. There is so little supporter interaction that no-one in any position at the club could really claim they even give two sh!ts what we thought, could contribute or indeed even if we turned up week after week. I'm not asking for a cuddle at the turnstiles, to be carried shoulder-high to my seat, to have butler service at halftime or even to have a hot stone massage after the game, but to actually be looked at as anything other than a piece of suspiciously pungent brown mess on the collective management's shoes. 

The 'supporter experience' at NDP is to sit down, shut up and be grateful for watching SPFL football. If Maitland or whoever thinks otherwise, there really is no hope for the club's long term future. I'm sure each of us could quickly come up with 5 things that really p!ss us off about the club (the team is another matter) and most of them are so easily fixed it is laughable that they are allowed to continue. 

Website? For YEARS its been absolute amateur hour which a reasonably sentient chimpanzee could fix in a heartbeat

Ticket purchases for home OR away games? How anyone knows when we are playing and how they can attend is beyond me. We don't know yet if we can buy tickets at Tynecastle in a couple of days? How is that possible? Blame Hearts all you want but its another impediment to fans travelling. Buy 2 tickets and shop staff need to use a calculator? Eh?

Presence around Hamilton? Emmm... absolute zero and therefore interest from townspeople is also zero. And who can really blame them?

Shout about what we are watching on the pitch and certain individuals at the tunnel scan the crowd then stare and scowl as if they're John Rambo when they're far more Joey Essex. You'd think we were screaming for their families to be ritually tortured on the pitch at half time rather than moaning about losing goals 2-year-olds would take a beamer at.

Season ticket holders (as in they're holding them in their hands, clearly they havent bought them) wandering about looking for 'their' seat every week, although this is far more prevalent when the ugly sisters are in town. Plenty of those sets of fans in the home stand for every game against them and the club say they didnt know about it but would look into it. Result - pipe down ya muppets, nothing to see here and so nothing changes and it continues to happen every single time.

See, 5 things and I've not even started. 

Even on Tuesday one half of the turnstile exit gates were closed, meaning we had to traipse through plenty of lovely puddles to get out when the other side was far more accessible. Sh!te I know but why does petty garbage like that happen every week and why do the club not do something to help? Possibly because its nice and warm in the directors boxes and they couldn't care less about you or I.

Fountain of Youth Stadium? FOY stadium then surely, but it says FOYS Stadium in big letters above the front door. Where did that extra 's' come from? And how much extra sponsorship did it bring in?

We are a complete joke in terms of trying to grow the club, in terms of what we expect fans to put up with, in terms of trying to make it a pleasant experience to go to games. I know nothing will change because those running the club see us as an irrelevance to be mocked, derided or just plain ignored. Fans forums are great for the 15 minutes they last, but when the same stuff is discussed every time and NEVER CHANGES in any way, shape or form, I'm afraid it's getting easier and easier to spend the time and money I would otherwise contribute to Scottish football on other things. 

I always love the team (even when we're rotten) but I wish a bid GIRFUY to those in charge . 

Edited February 13, 2020 by G51 Red

[accies1874]

This could probably be used as a counterpoint to some of the things in that post.

In fairness to the Accies board there isn't much they haven't tried to increase crowds - lowest ticket prices in the league, bring a friend vouchers, 10p entry, £10 quid entry, 3 free child tickets per season ticket, £150 season tickets across the board, ticket giveaways aplenty - nothing has worked.  
 

Another couple of things...

There used to be a club shop down Hamilton. Guess what? It wasn't used and eventually turned into a charity shop before turning into another empty shop.

When we were doing well, the club (and Ronnie in particular) really encouraged Section A by buying them a drum and banners. Colin McGowan also gave loads (around 100 I'm sure) of free tickets to them for the 2017 play-off. It's almost empty now because the football's shite and many folk have gone elsewhere (some to other parts of the stand, but sadly more to other clubs).

The Foys/Fountain of Youth Stadium is stupid but only because of communication. The sponsors are called Foys so thought they might as well make it an acronym - ergo Fountain of Youth Stadium. Sadly, that's somehow been muddled by the club or the sponsors, so it sometimes gets called The Foys Stadium and sometimes Fountain of Youth Stadium. The constant name changes are a nightmare though.

[G51 Red]

Re. section A ... yes the club were good to the youngsters at the start , but as soon as the football became shit ( the canning effect , if you want to call it something) , then some ( if not most ) of the most vociferous Anti Canning / Board folk were housed in and around Section A and loads of people were asked in for wee chats / banned or stop going cause of the constant “Evil eye “ of Mr McGowan and his henchmen men ...Do you have any proof they have went to other clubs ?  

Yes there were lots of free tickets given , and the ground was ( much) busier , but free tickets are still given out , however , the crowds are dropping. 
So who are the free tickets going to now? It looks to me as if they are not attending the games even with free tickets ...so the freebies need to be targeted ( if that’s the right word ) differently...

As for the shop .... Accies can’t even get the club shop at the ground in some sort of order , so what hope did a shop in ( a dying ) Hamilton town centre have ?

[G51 Red]

38 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

This could probably be used as a counterpoint to some of the things in that post.
 

 

Another couple of things...

There used to be a club shop down Hamilton. Guess what? It wasn't used and eventually turned into a charity shop before turning into another empty shop.

When we were doing well, the club (and Ronnie in particular) really encouraged Section A by buying them a drum and banners. Colin McGowan also gave loads (around 100 I'm sure) of free tickets to them for the 2017 play-off. It's almost empty now because the football's shite and many folk have gone elsewhere (some to other parts of the stand, but sadly more to other clubs).

The Foys/Fountain of Youth Stadium is stupid but only because of communication. The sponsors are called Foys so thought they might as well make it an acronym - ergo Fountain of Youth Stadium. Sadly, that's somehow been muddled by the club or the sponsors, so it sometimes gets called The Foys Stadium and sometimes Fountain of Youth Stadium. The constant name changes are a nightmare though.

 

Ok , but out with the points I have answered ... what do you think about what he has posted about the fan “experience “ ? 
He seems to be talking about the same kind of thing I was re. to the clubs response to criticism at the games ... Section A , evil eye from Mr McGowan and  co. ....middle of the stand evil eye from someone else ( I take it they are connected to the club ) ....
This puts people of going to games . I know I don’t go as often to home games as often as I used to because of this ... f**k getting a ban from the stadium just because I dare to shout out in anger/ frustration / or just sheer bewilderment at some of our play / players / management team or BOD ....

Edited February 13, 2020 by G51 Red

[accies1874]

I promise you that probably at least half of Section A from the Neil era are now armchair Celtic or Rangers fans.

The free ticket thing is something that really, really annoys me. Every so often (as in once or twice a season) in attempt to get fans along = fine. You should expect to pay otherwise. I understand that the football's been shite for years but the unwillingness of fans to give money to the club is pretty shocking. I don't know how so many comps end up in circulation, but nothing annoys me more than people complaining about a lack of ambition etc when they don't expect to even pay into home games.

I can't comment on folk being invited for a chat with McGowan as I don't really know the details.

The fan experience is utter shite - you won't find me defending it - and it would be better if Accies just focused on keeping our existing disintegrating support rather than any efforts to get new fans.

[G51 Red]

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

I promise you that probably at least half of Section A from the Neil era are now armchair Celtic or Rangers fans 

How do you know that , FFS ? ? 
 Do you know everybody that used to attend ?? And their reason for non attendance now  ? 
That’s a nonsense statement .....

And what you said re. Mr. McGowans wee chats .. you know Freddie don’t you ? 

Edited February 13, 2020 by G51 Red

[Hendo]

As a St Mirren fan, I always find a visit to Hamilton really poor value for money. It is in a great location, right next to a train station so should be ideal for attracting away crowds, but for me and two kids it's £46 - St Johnstone it's £18 for the same deal. You would think, given Accies promotion of young players, they would also try to encourage young supporters, but apparently not.

[G51 Red]

Just now, Hendo said:

As a St Mirren fan, I always find a visit to Hamilton really poor value for money. It is in a great location, right next to a train station so should be ideal for attracting away crowds, but for me and two kids it's £46 - St Johnstone it's £18 for the same deal. You would think, given Accies promotion of young players, they would also try to encourage young supporters, but apparently not.

Far too sensible.....

[G51 Red]

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

I promise you that probably at least half of Section A from the Neil era are now armchair Celtic or Rangers fans.

 

The fan experience is utter shite - you won't find me defending it - and it would be better if Accies just focused on keeping our existing disintegrating support rather than any efforts to get new fans.

How do you think Accies could /should do this ? 
They care very little for any of the fans ( whether Section A or middle stand season ticket holders ... the experience for all is shocking .. 

How they hope to hang on to any new fans who attend is beyond me ...

[Owsley]

41 minutes ago, Hendo said:

As a St Mirren fan, I always find a visit to Hamilton really poor value for money. It is in a great location, right next to a train station so should be ideal for attracting away crowds, but for me and two kids it's £46 - St Johnstone it's £18 for the same deal. You would think, given Accies promotion of young players, they would also try to encourage young supporters, but apparently not.

I'd give you ten greenies if I could. Not everybody can afford a season ticket. Maybe not such a valid argument when they were £150/£180 but now they are back at a more normal price. Not everybody needs a ST  if they only go to a few games a season. So for us to charge that amount is utter madness. But then we charge £25 for a fifth round cup tie and leave out our best players!