pandarilla Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 MotD highlights. 2 games... 2 V-A-R offside guesses 1 V-A-R overrule after whistle blown 1 "play on" after ref obstructs Farcical.It's mental. There are still folk defending this ridiculous system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 I was intrigued on how they'd deal with the whistle blowing on the non-handball in the Liverpool as I was sure they couldn't give the goal OR a handball. I thought it'd end up being a dropball or something like that. Surely a goal is the wrong decision there? That one was at least understandable I thought. The ref not stopping play when interfering was just fucking terrible though. VAR is no match for incompetence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, pandarilla said: It's mental. There are still folk defending this ridiculous system. Prominent in almost every game from yesterday too. Keown suggesting they adjust the offside rule. Presumably so any part of a player - arms aside - being level with the defender would play them onside? That would just lead to these extrapolated guesses on the other side of the player: scrutinising their trailing leg, back or ponytail... which would be even harder to adjudge. Even if it helped, you'd also be making naked eye offside calls much harder... 99.9% of those made worldwide each weekend. That's not the solution. Whether now or for next season, the authorities need to admit its gone badly wrong, and scrap it entirely/return it to "clear and obvious" refereeing decisions only. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Prominent in almost every game from yesterday too. Keown suggesting they adjust the offside rule. Presumably so any part of a player - arms aside - being level with the defender would play them onside? That would just lead to these extrapolated guesses on the other side of the player: scrutinising their trailing leg, back or ponytail... which would be even harder to adjudge. Even if it helped, you'd also be making naked eye offside calls much harder... 99.9% of those made worldwide each weekend. That's not the solution. Whether now or for next season, the authorities need to admit its gone badly wrong, and scrap it entirely/return it to "clear and obvious" refereeing decisions only. I have to admit, I was in favour of VAR prior to this season. It seemed to work fairly well in Serie A a while back. However the current implementation is utterly ludicrous. If it's meant to overturn "clear and obvious" refereeing decisions then it shouldn't be used for offside. The majority of offside "goals" prior to VAR were usually fairly marginal. How the f**k can it be "clear and obvious" to an official when a player's nose is three inches offside? Stick to using it for handballs, balls out of play (eg a winger running it just over the byeline before hitting a cross from which a goal is scored) etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 It’s clear they can’t just change rules to suit VAR. I don’t worry so much about the offsides, strikers just need to adapt IMHO. You don’t need to be exactly level, don’t take the risk and aim to be 5-10mm onside always, leave yourself the margin for error and don’t rely on VAR being in your favour. The ref should have let mane finish before blowing his whistle. The Man City one isn’t anything to do with VAR. last season it would have just been tough shit and now with the rule change(which is right but seemed a bit last minute after the goal ‘scored’ by the ref happened just before IFAB met. ) The ref has made a mistake being in the way but he’s left in abit of a shit position cos he is well aware the goal shouldn’t stand morally but he can’t just re-write the law himself. A simple re-wording to ‘referee interfering with play’ instead of ball hitting ref will solve that. I agree we are judging too much by VAR, i think there’s a natural cautionary side to refs involved here and they are seeking too much for perfection even if sacrificing other things. A refs entire work is aiming to get every call correct and whilst they might feel sympathy for fans/players with the delays etc it’s not there primary thought. So long as we leave them to decide what clear and obvious is then I think the long delays will continue. We must go to a review system. I know there’s concern over tactical reviews but I don’t think it would happen overly often and these reviews should be dealt with fairly quickly and definitely the lesser of 2 evils. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 I have to admit, I was in favour of VAR prior to this season. It seemed to work fairly well in Serie A a while back. However the current implementation is utterly ludicrous. If it's meant to overturn "clear and obvious" refereeing decisions then it shouldn't be used for offside. The majority of offside "goals" prior to VAR were usually fairly marginal. How the f**k can it be "clear and obvious" to an official when a player's nose is three inches offside? Stick to using it for handballs, balls out of play (eg a winger running it just over the byeline before hitting a cross from which a goal is scored) etc. There are always outliers of course - the Arsenal goal at Old Trafford for example where Aubameyang was about 3 yards onside but was flagged off only for it to be given after a VAR review. I know it might lead to some wrong decisions but if VAR has to stay I'd have a timed system; if the VAR team can't find a reason to overturn in say 45 seconds, then the on-field decision stands. Eliminates the shockers but gets rid of the armpit/toenail stuff and looking at endless replays for minimal "contact" that always looks worse in slow motion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 They could also bring in a percentage call, with so many centimetres being used as a measure of "error" - whereby you go with the linesman's original decision (which they could still make to the ref through the microphones and let play run on if they want to see what happens. The challenge system and time limit also seem sensible. But actually the whole system takes away from the natural joyous explosion of a goal or a penalty award. Old crooked sepp was right all along. Try and keep the game as close to what it's like on a Sunday league park. That's the essence of football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Both the VAR decisions in the Liverpool v Wolves games were correct. Not sure what all the fuss is about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Both the VAR decisions in the Liverpool v Wolves games were correct. Not sure what all the fuss is about.How do you know the Wolves offside was correct? I've yet to see a conclusive still of the ball being passed - unless you work at Stockley Park and have access to higher resolution images than the rest of us, I don't see how you can be sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Both the VAR decisions in the Liverpool v Wolves games were correct. Not sure what all the fuss is about. The Wolves' offside was much too close to be confident about. Freeze it a couple of frames earlier and he looks onside. It's well within the margin of error. Both decisions took far, far too long and paying fans were left waiting like mugs, with no idea what was going on. It bleeds the atmosphere out of the crowd. I'm a big fan of TMO reviews in rugby, it's part of the drama because you see it on the big screen at the same time as the referee and you can get a ref link radio and listen to the decision being made if you want. It's also usually pretty quick. But VAR has been an abject failure in football so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moomintroll Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Clear and obvious error, this is all. Mike Riley is, always has been, and always will be a despicable little arsehole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 That one was at least understandable I thought. The ref not stopping play when interfering was just fucking terrible though. VAR is no match for incompetence.The referee had no grounds to stop play. He can only stop it if the ball hits him, not if he gets in the way of a player. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The referee had no grounds to stop play. He can only stop it if the ball hits him, not if he gets in the way of a player.Yes, that's something that wouldn't have been an issue last season but now we have this new "drop ball if it hits the referee" rule that wasn't really needed save for a bizarre incident where a referee scored a goal, it suddenly becomes pertinent. IFAB messed up here - "drop ball if the referee interferes with play" would have at least allowed the referee the flexibility to blow up here where he had clearly obstructed Fleck. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevieda Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The Wolves' offside was much too close to be confident about. Freeze it a couple of frames earlier and he looks onside. It's well within the margin of error. Both decisions took far, far too long and paying fans were left waiting like mugs, with no idea what was going on. It bleeds the atmosphere out of the crowd. I'm a big fan of TMO reviews in rugby, it's part of the drama because you see it on the big screen at the same time as the referee and you can get a ref link radio and listen to the decision being made if you want. It's also usually pretty quick. But VAR has been an abject failure in football so far.How does TMO in rugby deal with marginal decisions? Maybe like forward passes? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Stevieda said: 1 hour ago, GordonS said: The Wolves' offside was much too close to be confident about. Freeze it a couple of frames earlier and he looks onside. It's well within the margin of error. Both decisions took far, far too long and paying fans were left waiting like mugs, with no idea what was going on. It bleeds the atmosphere out of the crowd. I'm a big fan of TMO reviews in rugby, it's part of the drama because you see it on the big screen at the same time as the referee and you can get a ref link radio and listen to the decision being made if you want. It's also usually pretty quick. But VAR has been an abject failure in football so far. How does TMO in rugby deal with marginal decisions? Maybe like forward passes? If it is to close to judge or cant find any replays to change it they stick with the refs original decision. Edited December 30, 2019 by ajwffc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 How does TMO in rugby deal with marginal decisions? Maybe like forward passes? Same as in cricket - the on-field decision stands. Usually they word the question in such a way that their original decision is clear e.g. "My decision is try - is there any reason to disallow the try" or whatever. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevieda Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Great, so they dont start drawing little dotted lines trying to work out things with geometry when they dont have the technology to be accurate? Seems too sensible for football. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I think they will ultimately go down the challenge route - put the onus back on the teams to judge if it is clear and obvious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecto Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 The Wolves' offside was much too close to be confident about. Freeze it a couple of frames earlier and he looks onside. It's well within the margin of error. Both decisions took far, far too long and paying fans were left waiting like mugs, with no idea what was going on. It bleeds the atmosphere out of the crowd. I'm a big fan of TMO reviews in rugby, it's part of the drama because you see it on the big screen at the same time as the referee and you can get a ref link radio and listen to the decision being made if you want. It's also usually pretty quick. But VAR has been an abject failure in football so far.If calls were to close to call, the advantage was meant to be given to the attacking team 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 I see IFAB are talking about re-issuing guidance in regards to clear and obvious, particularly over the length of time for calls. Offside is there main talking point. Interestingly I wonder if any change to guidance on VAR use will change how the on field decisions are made. Currently I believe assistants are not to raise there flag until the end of the phase if they have any doubt that the player might be onside. Would they be more likely to flag if VAR is more likely to give no decision? They’d be forced to be more decisive in their call. What would be the protocol if a goal is given offside on field but at first glance on VAR the player appears fairly level but might be slightly offside and not enough time to draw the line. Do they go with on field decision or does it become an overrule cos the attacker was meant to be given the benefit of doubt even if that means overturning what might have been a perfect call? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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