English Premier League 2019-20

[19QOS19]

Liverpool pool were class this year, head and shoulders above the rest...but how Henderson won Player of Year as opposed to De Bruyne is anyone's guess

I'm also puzzled how English Henderson beat Belgian De Bruyne to this award as well. A true mystery that we'll never solve.

[8MileBU]

3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Liverpool pool were class this year, head and shoulders above the rest...but how Henderson won Player of Year as opposed to De Bruyne is anyone's guess

Seen this said a few times here and elsewhere and said all this before but I don’t think it’s remotely difficult to fathom. 

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

Liverpool pool were class this year, head and shoulders above the rest...but how Henderson won Player of Year as opposed to De Bruyne is anyone's guess

I'm also puzzled how English Henderson beat Belgian De Bruyne to this award as well. A true mystery that we'll never solve.

He has had a far bigger impact on his team this season. Too many folk seem to focus solely on the technical skills such as goals and assists etc. Henderson’s ability to play the role asked of him has brought out not only the best in him but those around him, allowing them to do what they’re best at. Henderson’s positional play, reading of the game and being aware of everything going on around him forward and behind, has been superb. Not only has he been organising and instructing his team mates, but he’s lead by example through sheer graft, but his anticipation and spoiling has been brilliant and there a lot to be said for him being the voice and engine at the heart of his team who at the end of the day won the title at a canter.

I’ve said it on here before, but much of the folk critical of Henderson will have been the same folk who praised Roy Keane leading Man Utd to the Champions League (albeit missing the final) and Ngolo Kante playing a not too dissimilar role in Chelsea’s last Barclays winning side.  
FWIW I’d have had no gripe had KDB been awarded POTY, but for me Henderson deserves it more.

Edited July 28, 2020 by 8MileBU

[Brummie Clyde]

Whenever I watch Wolves, Coady always looks like their weakest player

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Henderson winning POTY sums up this season.

Drab.

[Bairnardo]

I slagged Henderson loads at the World Cup for being a thoroughly inadequate midfielder, never more so than when showed up against top tier ballers like Modric and Rakitic, but have to give credit where it's due, he really showed up this season and played a huge role in a huge title win. He isnt a better player than probably top 2 or 3 in the world KDB but I think it's probably fair enough to give him it.

[Ron Aldo]

7 hours ago, buchan30 said:

Seeking compensation for being relegated due to being pish all season? Not exactly a novel idea. Probably get pundits saying that Bournemouth have a case and they should absolutely go for it. Wonder who the english, tom english will be?

Tim Scottish. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

6 hours ago, 8MileBU said:

Seen this said a few times here and elsewhere and said all this before but I don’t think it’s remotely difficult to fathom. 

He has had a far bigger impact on his team this season. Too many folk seem to focus solely on the technical skills such as goals and assists etc. Henderson’s ability to play the role asked of him has brought out not only the best in him but those around him, allowing them to do what they’re best at. Henderson’s positional play, reading of the game and being aware of everything going on around him forward and behind, has been superb. Not only has he been organising and instructing his team mates, but he’s lead by example through sheer graft, but his anticipation and spoiling has been brilliant and there a lot to be said for him being the voice and engine at the heart of his team who at the end of the day won the title at a canter.

I’ve said it on here before, but much of the folk critical of Henderson will have been the same folk who praised Roy Keane leading Man Utd to the Champions League (albeit missing the final) and Ngolo Kante playing a not too dissimilar role in Chelsea’s last Barclays winning side.  
FWIW I’d have had no gripe had KDB been awarded POTY, but for me Henderson deserves it more.

 

I agree about how good Henderson has been. But even within Liverpool there are at least 7-8 other players who have played just as well in their own way and are just as important to their team. I definitely think when there is not an obvious winner the Football Writers like to look at the wider narrative (usually from on English point of view) which means they are more likely to vote for someone like Henderson. Whereas players will just vote for the best player.

I looked at PFA Player's Player winners and Football Writer Winners to see whether there is evidence of this. Of the last 20 winners in both awards (not including this year to make it based on the same years), 4 out of 20 winners were English in the PFA Award, 7 out of 20 were English for the Football Writers. If KDB wins PFA this year as he is expected to then you'd have 8 to 4. I don't really see any other reason for this difference other than Football Writers leaning towards English players given that they are judging exactly the same players. Two specific years stand out, in 2011 Scott Parker won the Football Writer's Award over Gareth Bale. In 2016, Jamie Vardy won Football Writer's Award when Riyad Mahrez won PFA Award. There probably wasn't much between them at the time, but again it looks like Writers going for the English player, Players voting for the better technical player.

Looking at the entire history of each award shows a similar pattern (although probably has less value given the low number of foreign players before the 90s). But the 'win rate' of English players in the Football Writer's is 52%, but only 39% in PFA.

No doubt some of the people criticising Henderson will be those who don't want to give praise to an English player. But when you look at the wider context there is definitely enough evidence to suggest that Henderson being English has at least played some role in him winning this.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[Bully Wee Villa]

5 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Henderson winning POTY sums up this season.

Drab.

Didn't Scott Parker win it once? And there's the time they gave it to Ryan Giggs when he only played about eight games!

Edited July 28, 2020 by Bully Wee Villa

[Diamonds are Forever]

20 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Didn't Scott Parker win it once? And there's the time they gave it to Ryan Giggs when he only played about eight games!

 

Different awards. You are right that Scott Parker won the Football Writer's Award, in 2011.

But entirely wrong about Giggs. He won the PFA Player's Player Award in 2009, made 46 appearances and won Sports Personality of the Year (which was a bit bizarre). He was excellent that season.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever

[8MileBU]

1 hour ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

I agree about how good Henderson has been. But even within Liverpool there are at least 7-8 other players who have played just as well in their own way and are just as important to their team. I definitely think when there is not an obvious winner the Football Writers like to look at the wider narrative (usually from on English point of view) which means they are more likely to vote for someone like Henderson. Whereas players will just vote for the best player.

I looked at PFA Player's Player winners and Football Writer Winners to see whether there is evidence of this. Of the last 20 winners in both awards (not including this year to make it based on the same years), 4 out of 20 winners were English in the PFA Award, 7 out of 20 were English for the Football Writers. If KDB wins PFA this year as he is expected to then you'd have 8 to 4. I don't really see any other reason for this difference other than Football Writer's leaning towards English players. Two specific years stand out, in 2011 Scott Parker won the Football Writer's Award over Gareth Bale. In 2016, Jamie Vardy won Football Writer's Award when Riyad Mahrez won PFA Award. There probably wasn't much between them at the time, but again it looks like Writers going for the English player, Players voting for the better technical player.

Looking at the entire history of each award shows a similar pattern (although probably has less value given the low number of foreign players before the 90s). But the 'win rate' of English players in the Football Writer's is 52%, but only 39% in PFA.

No doubt some of the people criticising Henderson will be those who don't want to give praise to an English player. But when you look at the wider context there is definitely enough evidence to suggest that Henderson being English has at least played some role in him winning this.

I don’t doubt for a second there will be a lot of English bias amongst the voting. I’d also go as far as to say that if Kevin De Bruyne was Kevin De Bruce, it would definitely swing my vote. I also think that in England it should be expected that the Writers Award would historically have the higher percentage of English winners. ‘Natural’ almost. In much the same way I just used that awful De Bruyne/De Bruce analogy.  

The Writers Award is the one to always look at with a bit of sceptical home nation bias IMO. You could also question whether the journalists award is even that highly regarded by the players? I doubt the journalists opinions really hold any more weight than the opinion of you or I to footballers. The only difference is that their job is to write and sell football news. 

It’s not something I’ve ever looked into but it would be interesting to see (and I wouldn’t be at all surprised) if the same trend exists in other countries with a Writers Award.

Anyway for me, Henderson just deserves the award over De Bruyne. I’m not suggesting Henderson ran away with it the same way his team did with the league. I’m looking at it is a complete neutral and just comparing two players that represent two clubs and two countries that I don’t have any feeling for whatsoever.

Edited July 29, 2020 by 8MileBU

[David W]

Henderson has probably been Liverpool's best player this year (maybe Mane?) but I'm pretty sure him organising the NHS fund tipped things in his favour; I think a number of people mentioned that. I saw the writers gave Rashford a decent number of votes as well on similar lines. 

Then again, Jonny Evans and Aaron Wan-Bissaka also managed to get a vote, which is downright bizarre.

[Albertlegend]

If I was giving it to a Liverpool player I'd probably have voted Alexander-Arnold. He has been excellent this year and is probably one of the best right backs in Europe now. 

I'd also have given it to Raheem Sterling before Henderson as well. These two can win you points on their own I don't feel Henderson does that whether it's English bias by the media or whether they have just said meh weird season we will just give it to the captain of the league winners! 

[Distant Doonhamer]

If I was giving it to a Liverpool player I'd probably have voted Alexander-Arnold. He has been excellent this year and is probably one of the best right backs in Europe now. 
I'd also have given it to Raheem Sterling before Henderson as well. These two can win you points on their own I don't feel Henderson does that whether it's English bias by the media or whether they have just said meh weird season we will just give it to the captain of the league winners! 

That sounds like you’re saying Henderson maybe got the award over Alexander-Arnold and Sterling because he’s English. Presumably that’s not what you meant or are you saying some other bias is at work?

[senorsoupe]

Now that the relegation places are set, who will be the first players to be poached from the 3?  Nathan Ake is probably the best player on all three teams so Bournemouth will probably cash in on him, plus Norwich have some good young talent

[Binos]

10 minutes ago, senorsoupe said:

Now that the relegation places are set, who will be the first players to be poached from the 3?  Nathan Ake is probably the best player on all three teams so Bournemouth will probably cash in on him, plus Norwich have some good young talent

Grant Hanley, top class centre half

Where will he end up?

[Ron Aldo]

Now that the relegation places are set, who will be the first players to be poached from the 3?  Nathan Ake is probably the best player on all three teams so Bournemouth will probably cash in on him, plus Norwich have some good young talent

Of the 3 squads that went down, Watford's squad has the least resale value imo.

Bournemouth have Nathan Ake and I'd imagine the likes of Ramsdale, Lerma and Callum Wilson will probably stay in the Premier League. Norwich, shite as they were on the whole, have Buendia and Cantwell. There isn't really anyone in the Watford squad of any value that I can see - they're either complete jobbers or too old to be moving for any sort of decent fee.

[senorsoupe]

7 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Of the 3 squads that went down, Watford's squad has the least resale value imo.

Bournemouth have Nathan Ake and I'd imagine the likes of Ramsdale, Lerma and Callum Wilson will probably stay in the Premier League. Norwich, shite as they were on the whole, have Buendia and Cantwell. There isn't really anyone in the Watford squad of any value that I can see - they're either complete jobbers or too old to be moving for any sort of decent fee.

Ismalia Sarr is probably Watford's only player of any value

[DrewDon]

2 hours ago, senorsoupe said:

Now that the relegation places are set, who will be the first players to be poached from the 3?  Nathan Ake is probably the best player on all three teams so Bournemouth will probably cash in on him, plus Norwich have some good young talent

I think Buendia has the highest ceiling of any player from the relegated teams - his statistics are ridiculously good for a player in that Norwich team. I like Aarons too, despite the disaster that Norwich's defending has largely been - I saw some reports linking him with Bayern Munich a couple of days ago. I'd be surprised if any of Ramsdale, Ake, Wilson or King went to the Championship with Bournemouth, although Ramsdale probably the most likely of the four to stay. 

[Derry Alli]

I'm sure I read Buendia is off to Leeds. 

[Brummie Clyde]

Did think of Buendia as a possible replacement for Grealish if he leaves.