Performance review - managers

[vikingTON]

20 hours ago, Tarmo Kink said:

If John Robertson had played Owain Fôn Williams in any game it would have doubled his wages for that week, as per his ridiculous contract.

Dundee United and Falkirk have both had basically two squads this season, and County are throwing money at their squad. I’d say Dunfermline and Partick have a slightly higher budget than us too, but not too much of a difference. Play-offs is the best we could have had but with 5th or 6th, nobody could have complained. I’d say that’s an overachievement.

Partick and Falkirk's budgets for the season aren't relevant in the end though, as they took themselves out of the play-off running early doors due to their spectacular incompetence - Dunfermline weren't too far behind them on that score either. That opened up a huge space for clubs with smaller budgets to do better than they'd have bargained for at the start of the season.

I've got nothing but praise for Robertson putting a clearly identifiable team on the pitch instead of the disjointed rabble that most managers in the division delivered instead but the quality of players available to him and the resources that your club was shelling out for them every week were vastly larger than the teams that finished immediately below you in the table. It just wasn't a heroic effort against budgetary restraints then. 

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, I'm Brian said:

I'm sure he'll be gutted to learn of this as he polishes his Championship winners medal

Jim McInally also 'won' another division this season; it doesn't make him any less of a moron of a manager and human being though. Indeed Jim McInally would probably have won this division with Ross County's squad and budget - it isn't a managerial achievement in the slightest. 

[Rudolph Hucker]

19 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

 “moron” and “cretin” are terms used all too freely and inaccurately by some keyboard warriors on here 

 

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

it doesn't make him any less of a moron of a manager and human being though

  

[Rudolph Hucker]

30 minutes ago, virginton said:

Jim McInally also 'won' another division this season; it doesn't make him any less of a moron of a manager and human being though. Indeed Jim McInally would probably have won this division with Ross County's squad and budget - it isn't a managerial achievement in the slightest. 

.....except that yes, it is. Winning any league is a creditable achievement.

And it's only a few years since TheRangers failed to get promoted from the Championship with a budget that most clubs in Scotland looked at enviously.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Rudolph Hucker

[Skyline Drifter]

4 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Half the league had bigger wager budgets than us. 

You think? County and United did yes, and finished above you. I'm far from sure anyone else in the League will have had a bigger budget than ICT. Thistle, Dunfermline and Falkirk were probably all in or around the same ballpark but the latter two won't have had any hangover Premiership contracted players floating about.

[TheScarf]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

You think? County and United did yes, and finished above you. I'm far from sure anyone else in the League will have had a bigger budget than ICT. Thistle, Dunfermline and Falkirk were probably all in or around the same ballpark but the latter two won't have had any hangover Premiership contracted players floating about.

Yes I think.  Falkirk and Thistle undoubtedly.  I questioned Dunfermline but apparently they've out-weekly waged us for a couple of players in the last few seasons according to Robbo at a Q and A.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

Yes I think.  Falkirk and Thistle undoubtedly.  I questioned Dunfermline but apparently they've out-weekly waged us for a couple of players in the last few seasons according to Robbo at a Q and A.

I think you miss the point. It might be that all three clubs are able to pay more than you for new players (although I'd be dubious of that too to be honest) but that doesn't mean they have bigger budgets. You have players in your squad well outwith the budgets of those clubs. They all make up the total playing wage budget. I'm pretty sure the ICT wage budget in total will be higher than all of those clubs. If it's not the 3rd highest in the division it will be damned close to it and certainly nowhere near this perception going around that Robertson is working on a shoestring.

[Nightmare]

As much as it would reflect ever so slightly better on our shambles of a season, I can’t see ICT’s budget being larger than ours. Wouldn’t even have thought it was close in general, tbh.

Unless SD is privy to some information that nobody else has, that post seems miles off the mark.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Nightmare

[Northfield 53]

5 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

As much as it would reflect ever so slightly better on our shambles of a season, I can’t see ICT’s budget being larger than ours. Wouldn’t even have thought it was close in general, tbh.

Unless SD is privy to some information that nobody else has, that post seems miles off the mark.

SD would never post anything that was not true.

I would think he will have the best idea of any teams budget he will not be guessing like some fans do 

 

 

 

[whereismillar]

On ‎24‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 08:36, I'm Brian said:

I'm sure he'll be gutted to learn of this as he polishes his League 2 winners medal

FTFY

[bdu98196]

On 5/24/2019 at 17:57, Skyline Drifter said:

I think you miss the point. It might be that all three clubs are able to pay more than you for new players (although I'd be dubious of that too to be honest) but that doesn't mean they have bigger budgets. You have players in your squad well outwith the budgets of those clubs. They all make up the total playing wage budget. I'm pretty sure the ICT wage budget in total will be higher than all of those clubs. If it's not the 3rd highest in the division it will be damned close to it and certainly nowhere near this perception going around that Robertson is working on a shoestring.

You're wasting your time. The idea that a wage budget is cumulative of all players regardless if the club want  to play them or not is lost on a lot of ICT fans. While there has been an effort to reduce the wage bill and it has been seen throughout the first team - you are correct that there are still some high earners at the club such as OFW, Doran, Tremarco, Polly & B.Mckay who are all ex-Premiership and while some may have taken a cut in wages others never - when that is combined with the salary still being paid to Foran as ex-manager pay off there will be a hefty wage bill.

Its very simple we have budget X however there are a portion of players/club contractual commitments which could not be reduced (call it Q) then whats left (X minus Q) = Y had to be spread across the rest of the squad. In real terms if for example Q equates to 30% of the budget across 5 or 6 commitments, then that leaves the remaining 70% across 15-20% then in real terms less has to go further. This gives the impression of working on a shoe string - the reality is that end of this season our high earners are away so there will be real cuts for next season as no like for like will occur.

 

[TheScarf]

A wage budget is the amount of money, per season, the club has to spend on salaries, combined.  Robbo has reason to believe United, County, Thistle, Falkirk and Dunfermline's budget was more than ours.   And I don't doubt it looking at the sizes of the club/or public statements saying so (County and Falkirk both publicly stated they 'would make sure they were promoted' - County, and 'just signed off on the biggest wage budget the club has ever had at this level' - Falkirk).

Individual player salaries is irrelevant.  Those 5 clubs had more to spend on wages, and only 2 of the 5 succeeded in bettering us.  

[Savage Henry]

Next can we debate which club is the biggest in the division, and which fan bases bring the largest travelling support? I do hope so.

[bdu98196]

53 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

A wage budget is the amount of money, per season, the club has to spend on salaries, combined. 

Individual player salaries is irrelevant. 

Its hugely relevant

Nobody will suggest Robbo has not had a good season with ICT but if success is measured V's budget then surely McCall & Goodwin both sit ahead of Robbo in terms of what they managed. Perhaps someone will post up a list of clubs in order of perceived player budget then finishing positions and we will see from that delta that Robbo will not be top.

Note - as an ICT fan I want Robbo to stay but not now or during his previous tenure would I be blinded into thinking we have anything other than a good and competent manager at this level.

Edited May 27, 2019 by bdu98196

[TheScarf]

10 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Its hugely relevant

Nobody will suggest Robbo has not had a good season with ICT but if success is measured V's budget then surely McCall & Goodwin both sit ahead of Robbo in terms of what they managed. Perhaps someone will post up a list of clubs in order of perceived player budget then finishing positions and we will see from that delta that Robbo will not be top.

Note - as an ICT fan I want Robbo to stay but not now or during his previous tenure would I be blinded into thinking we have anything other than a good and competent manager at this level.

It's really not.  The manager spends the budget how he see's fit.  If he wants to pay someone £100,000 a year then the rest of the squad, say £300,000 a year combined, then that's up to him.

The bottom line is, other clubs had the opportunity to sign more established players, better players than us, and probably did bar Falkirk, and 3 of the 5 failed to overhaul ICT, because of Robbo, Kel and Bazza W.

Edit - And that's not even bringing QOS/Dobbie into the argument, as @Tarmo Kinksays, they pay him fuck knows what and were still absolutely horseshit.  A telling sign that Gary Naysmith is a terrible 'operation give the ball to our only good player' type manager.

Edited May 27, 2019 by TheScarf

[whereismillar]

1 hour ago, Tarmo Kink said:

Another goal conceded on the last day would have put Alloa automatically down.

this is true, if DUFC had scored that one goal yesterday they would be a premiership club,

ifs and buts and many permutations , in the end we stayed up and that's the statistic that counts .

[Monkey Tennis]

21 hours ago, TheScarf said:

A telling sign that Gary Naysmith is a terrible 'operation give the ball to our only good player' type manager.

Gary Naysmith is more of a terrible 'Operation isolate our only good player, while somehow hoping our rubbish ones can keep the opposition out' type manager.

[Guest]

McKinnon should win for no other reason than ensuring half of Greenock self combusted.

[Rudolph Hucker]

1 hour ago, Back Post Misses said:

McKinnon should win for no other reason than ensuring half of Greenock self combusted.

“half of Greenock self combusted”..........   aye, right you are, chum.

Nah, apart from him being an absolute twat it should be McKinnon for:

    .......getting two teams papped out of a combined record total number of cup competitions at the first time of asking

    .......signing a squad only marginally better than the dross he inherited

    .......being unable to change from his safety-first approach even when  it clearly wasn’t proving effective enough

    .......costing his club far more than the cost of compensation to Morton would have been because of the ludicrous way he and the Falkirk     board handled his move

    .......finishing tenth out of ten teams, starting bottom of the league and finishing bottom of the league and thus ultimately failing in the one objective he was set.

 

A stellar performance from Stupor Ray that should be rewarded with a new five year contract IMO. 

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

9 hours ago, Back Post Misses said:

McKinnon should win for no other reason than ensuring half of Greenock self combusted.

Are you still seriously suggesting that poaching McKinnon represents some sort of win for Falkirk?

I think we can safely say that Morton got the definitive last laugh here.  I'd shut up about the whole thing if I were you.