Guest Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Glenanover said: Great post. Yes, if you're a deluded unionist.......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenanover Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 minute ago, WATTOO said: Yes, if you're a deluded unionist.......... Not at all. You don't think it is because you are a deluded Scottish nationalist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Glenanover said: Not at all. You don't think it is because you are a deluded Scottish nationalist. I may indeed be deluded, however I know factually what our country is like as part of the Union, and in relation to our European peers, it absolutely stinks. Our Public services are a disgrace and hugely underfunded, our transport infrastructure is a complete joke which hasn't seen any real investment since the Victorian era, our Economic system is a shambles where our companies are being legally asset stripped and dumped in administration causing swathes of redundancies so as to benefit a few foreign private investors. Our "capitalist" system is almost as far removed from real capitalism as you can get, where the rules and regulations only benefit those at the the very top of society to the detriment of the working and middle classes. We have hundreds of thousands in the country homeless and sleeping rough, we have child poverty and the return of diseases linked to abject poverty which had previously been eradicated. We have working families having to rely on foodbanks and charities in order to feed themselves due to the pathetic employment laws, gig economy and part time minimum wage culture in the country. It may not all be fantastic as an independent Scotland, however can it get much worse than this ? Personally I'm more than willing to take that risk based upon my own observations and knowledge. I could go on all day, however I think you get my point................ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenanover Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 10 minutes ago, WATTOO said: I may indeed be deluded, however I know factually what our country is like as part of the Union, and in relation to our European peers, it absolutely stinks. Our Public services are a disgrace and hugely underfunded, our transport infrastructure is a complete joke which hasn't seen any real investment since the Victorian era, our Economic system is a shambles where our companies are being legally asset stripped and dumped in administration causing swathes of redundancies so as to benefit a few foreign private investors. Our "capitalist" system is almost as far removed from real capitalism as you can get, where the rules and regulations only benefit those at the the very top of society to the detriment of the working and middle classes. We have hundreds of thousands in the country homeless and sleeping rough, we have child poverty and the return of diseases linked to abject poverty which had previously been eradicated. We have working families having to rely on foodbanks and charities in order to feed themselves due to the pathetic employment laws, gig economy and part time minimum wage culture in the country. It may not all be fantastic as an independent Scotland, however can it get much worse than this ? Personally I'm more than willing to take that risk based upon my own observations and knowledge. I could go on all day, however I think you get my point................ It could get a whole lot worse. For a start where is the 13 billion shortfall going to come from ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 1 hour ago, WATTOO said: Yes, if you're a deluded unionist.......... Tautology. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Glenanover said: It could get a whole lot worse. For a start where is the 13 billion shortfall going to come from ? The revenue from oil and gas resources within the territorial waters of a newly independent Scotland would be worth slightly more than that, depending on world oil prices which, coincidentally, have just gone up. Of course the rUK would not easily give up these resources, which they have been squandering for half a century. So it would depend on what sort of deal could be struck but not an insurmountable problem. 13B is chickenfeed these days, not even enough to build a transatlantic bridge. Edited September 20, 2019 by cyderspaceman typos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Once we get our share of the £350m a week, that should surely make a dent in the £13bn? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 hours ago, WATTOO said: I may indeed be deluded, however I know factually what our country is like as part of the Union, and in relation to our European peers, it absolutely stinks. Our Public services are a disgrace and hugely underfunded, our transport infrastructure is a complete joke which hasn't seen any real investment since the Victorian era, our Economic system is a shambles where our companies are being legally asset stripped and dumped in administration causing swathes of redundancies so as to benefit a few foreign private investors. Our "capitalist" system is almost as far removed from real capitalism as you can get, where the rules and regulations only benefit those at the the very top of society to the detriment of the working and middle classes. We have hundreds of thousands in the country homeless and sleeping rough, we have child poverty and the return of diseases linked to abject poverty which had previously been eradicated. We have working families having to rely on foodbanks and charities in order to feed themselves due to the pathetic employment laws, gig economy and part time minimum wage culture in the country. It may not all be fantastic as an independent Scotland, however can it get much worse than this ? Personally I'm more than willing to take that risk based upon my own observations and knowledge. I could go on all day, however I think you get my point................ Ok - well here's a challenge for you. Public Services - can you tell me how Scottish Independence would improve these services especially given that we know the Barnett Formula gives the Scottish Government £13Bn more than Scotland raises in tax revenues currently and that this would stop in the event of Scotland ceasing to be part of the United Kingdom. Captalist System - Can you tell me, with credibility, how Scottish Independence would change the "system" we have. The SNP's best attempt at outlining a future for an Independent Scotland showed we would simply retain everything we had and live off massive tax revenues from the North Sea that never transpired. Homelessness - Go on then. Tell me, with the Scottish Government failing and our local authorities lacking the cash, and probably the desire, to end homelessness, what would an Independent Scotland do to fix the problem especially when they will need to find £13Bn of austerity cuts. Foodbanks - Again tell me your solution in an Independent Scotland. What would you expect the SNP to do that it isn't currently doing and how would it fund it? We could ofcourse stop foodbanks tomorrow simply by refusing to donate to them. That would eradicate food banks - but I don't think that would make Scotland a better society. It would be £13Bn per annum worse than this. I'm not saying that money is the only solution. Maybe there would be a golden ticket in building a new country with a new set of values and a new way of running public services. I just don't see anything from the Nationalists that offer any encouragement. Christ Lesley Riddoch, what apparently was "delivering a telt" to the panel on an STV programme the other night wrote off pensions as "nothing to write home about" as those Scottish pensioners wouldn't miss it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 You're getting distracted malky. I believe you had a post from Renton to respond to and all the other stuff that you could go on for hours with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 You're getting distracted malky. I believe you had a post from Renton to respond to and all the other stuff that you could go on for hours with? He still hasn't responded on OBFA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, madwullie said: You're getting distracted malky. I believe you had a post from Renton to respond to and all the other stuff that you could go on for hours with? have just seen it. To be fair to Renton he's responded quite honestly but most of his post is speculative. We know what we have with the Union we are in and where we are at. We've no idea what a socialist Scottish Government might have done with North Sea oil revenues in the 1970's since that never happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) Is an independent Scotland not allowed to borrow? How does the UK manage with a couple of Trillion debt? I've heard it's getting on so well it can chuck some crumbs to its non important contituent parts out of the goodness of its heart. Edited September 20, 2019 by Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: Is an independent Scotland not allowed to borrow? How does the UK manage with a couple of Trillion debt? I've heard it's getting on so well it can chuck some crumbs to its non important contituent parts out of the goodness of its heart. The UK runs it's own currency. We can print more, quantitative ease, devalue etc, etc. The SNP policy for Independence is Sterlingisation until such times as a new currency is feasible. That would mean Scotland would be unable to borrow money or run a deficit. I provided this link before. It's explains things better than I can https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/07/01/sterlingisation-is-how-to-destroy-hope-for-an-independent-scotland/ Edited September 20, 2019 by Malky3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Just now, Malky3 said: The UK runs it's own currency. We can print more, quantitative ease, devalue etc, etc. The SNP policy for Independence is Sterlingisation until such times as a new currency is feasible. That would mean Scotland would be unable to borrow money or run a deficit. That's fucking nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: That's fucking nonsense. read the linked article. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 23 minutes ago, Malky3 said: have just seen it. To be fair to Renton he's responded quite honestly but most of his post is speculative. We know what we have with the Union we are in and where we are at. We've no idea what a socialist Scottish Government might have done with North Sea oil revenues in the 1970's since that never happened. You should probably type up a reply to him then countering his points and you can put that other stuff that would have taken you hours in as well. It's just this looks like you're trying to avoid addressing what he said and are picking your fights and changing the subject to get away from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Just now, madwullie said: You should probably type up a reply to him then countering his points and you can put that other stuff that would have taken you hours in as well. It's just this looks like you're trying to avoid addressing what he said and are picking your fights and changing the subject to get away from it. Not at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Just now, Malky3 said: read the linked article. OK. You've read it and picked out a line, yes? Gone with it. Quote Nor will Scotland be in control of its own government budget, so it would not be able to stimulate the economy by running a deficit, for instance. That is because the Government would be forced to balance its books unless it borrowed in a foreign currency, which would make it hard, if not impossible, to maintain parity with the pound. Since you're the expert, you can explain this to us? It makes zero sense to me. I've got an Economics degree from a Russell Group University and it literally reads like a pile of jargon filled piss to fool the masses. Why would Scotland have to borrow in a foreign currency? Why not in £s? And even if it did borrow in a foreign currency how exactly would maintaining parity with the pound be a problem? I'm all ears. Supply and Demand Diagrams would be helpful in your answer. And a comment on why borrowing in £s is not available. Also, not being able to run a deficit is all shite. If Scotland wanted to borrow, and if someone was willing to lend, then it'll happen. Simple as that. The talk of currency is an irrelevance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malky3 Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said: OK. You've read it and picked out a line, yes? Gone with it. Since you're the expert, you can explain this to us? It makes zero sense to me. I've got an Economics degree from a Russell Group University and it literally reads like a pile of jargon filled piss to fool the masses. Why would Scotland have to borrow in a foreign currency? Why not in £s? And even if it did borrow in a foreign currency how exactly would maintaining parity with the pound be a problem? I'm all ears. Supply and Demand Diagrams would be helpful in your answer. And a comment on why borrowing in £s is not available. Also, not being able to run a deficit is all shite. If Scotland wanted to borrow, and if someone was willing to lend, then it'll happen. Simple as that. The talk of currency is an irrelevance. Christ - you wasted years of your life didn't you. I'm no expert - the guy who wrote the article is - and he supports Scottish Independence. However it seems quite clear to me from his article that the reason is because the Bank Of England would control Sterlings monetary policy - not the Scottish Government! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 Christ - you wasted years of your life didn't you. I'm no expert - the guy who wrote the article is - and he supports Scottish Independence. However it seems quite clear to me from his article that the reason is because the Bank Of England would control Sterlings monetary policy - not the Scottish Government! And that would stop Scotland from borrowing how? You don’t know the difference between fiscal and monetary policy. Look it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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