2019/20 League Cup

[Spyro]

1 hour ago, barnseytheclaret said:

A bit windy is it?

Will look at a stop off point somewhere en route , that's for sure. Really looking forward to it!

Probably, depends which way it’s blowing but always enough to get the kite out if you’re strong enough to hold on!

Don’t know when the chairlifts are back on, or whether they are available all year round, but you can get one to near the top of the hill, see the views and walk back down to the car

[barnseytheclaret]

4 hours ago, Spyro said:

Probably, depends which way it’s blowing but always enough to get the kite out if you’re strong enough to hold on!

Don’t know when the chairlifts are back on, or whether they are available all year round, but you can get one to near the top of the hill, see the views and walk back down to the car

Sorry, I meant winding, rather than windy (parp!)

About St. Johnstone, does anyone know of decent street parking nearby, rather than paying £5 for the club's car park?

[Marten]

2 hours ago, barnseytheclaret said:

Sorry, I meant winding, rather than windy (parp!)

About St. Johnstone, does anyone know of decent street parking nearby, rather than paying £5 for the club's car park?

It's easy enough to park in the residential area near the stadium.

[Spyro]

3 hours ago, barnseytheclaret said:

Sorry, I meant winding, rather than windy (parp!)

About St. Johnstone, does anyone know of decent street parking nearby, rather than paying £5 for the club's car park?

Lol..  aye it’s a mental road. Twist, turn, bounce, f**k bend! The whole way down...

The Tesco up for McDermid seems to be everyone’s place of choice but loads of side streets n industrial estates to hide the motor in  

[barnseytheclaret]

Thanks, guys! Side streets it is, then! I doubt the crowd will be that big for the visit of Brechin, anyway?!

[Victor von Doom]

Today's Racing & Football Outlook carries a preview of the opening fixtures. "Figaro", long-standing Top Boy at the R.F.O., pens the piece. I have doubts over how he can produce a tipping column when not even Fred has chalked-up prices for the matches, so there is no odds table to go with the piece. I've just flicked through a few of the bigger bookies' sites and can find no prices. Not even for Hearts v. Dundee United. Oddschecker only lists prices from a bunch called Smarkets. No, I'd not heard of them either, but they seem to be an exchange. No money in their markets as yet. There has to be a "compare the meerkat" sort of joke there somewhere. 

A mite disturbing that Figaro mentions every club is guaranteed at least three matches, but that could be just a typo. Top Boy or not, he cautions against steaming-in, citing the high turnover of players over a summer in Scotland these days. 

"Cove could be in deep water in Peterhead" goes the headline, so he has Rory Mac & Co. as his opening nap. He also tips Albion Rovers to beat East Kilbride, Livingston to win at Falkirk and Forfar to best Brechin in the Angus dust-up.   

As they're on the telly, the Jambos v. Arabs and Buddies v. Pars games have to be previewed. Aaron Ashley gets the thankless task. He recommends Hearts -1 on handicap (!) which looks a very bold swing of the bat to me. (Figaro has the Arabs "double chance" in his odds and sods list of bets and I'd agree with Figaro, never mind wading-in on the Jambos to win by two.) Mr. Ashley goes for a straight St.Mirren win in Paisley.  

[Victor von Doom]

I posted this on the Gambling Forum, but it might be of interest on here... if anyone's fed up counting sheep. 

The League Cup has been played in this format for three seasons. That's not much of a sample to be drawing conclusions. There have been several hearty guffaws at biggish clubs being beaten by much smaller ones, but shocks at the group stage have not been as plentiful as the memory suggests.

Here’s a statistical breakdown of the 240 group games on a Division v Division basis:

Premiership v. Premiership: P4 W0 D3 L1

Not many, due to the seeding system. The TV companies might need a rethink when it comes to screening these. Rangers won 2-0 at Motherwell in the first all-top-flight game. All three games since then have ended 0-0. Ross-Hibs, Accies-Livi and Killie-St.Mirren. Do coaches set-up cautiously, believing a point will be good enough to progress if the lower division sides are despatched? Two of the matches were in the opening round of games and one in round three when both teams were still 100%. Accies v. Livi was in round two last year and Accies had already fouled-up by losing at Annan on opening day.  

 

Premiership v. Championship: P17 W10 D5 L2

Not a high enough home win percentage to justify wading-in blindly with accas. The two losers have been in something approaching disarray: Killie losing 2-0 to Morton three years ago; Dundee losing 1-0 to the Pars last term.

 

Premiership v. League 1: P12 W9 D3 L0

The goals tally in these games is 28-3. Killie were a shambles when they drew 0-0 with Albion & lost on pens, having lost at home to Morton a week earlier. Accies 1-1 with Airdrie last year is a lively derby. No real excuse for St.Johnstone being held 0-0 by E.Fife though.

 

Premiership v. League 2: P13 W13 D0 L0

100% and the goals tally here is 48-2. Two early Clyde goals at Rugby Park in a 2017 game Killie won 4-2 are the only goals registered by a basement team on a Premiership ground.

 

Premiership v. Non-League: P4 W3 D1 L0

12 goals in the Non-League net without reply until Stubbsy’s St.Mirren scraped a 2-2 draw v. Spartans last July.

 

Championship v. Premiership: P3 W1 D1 L1

With Seed #1 always at home to Seed #2, these games can only occur on the rare occasions when there are two Premiership clubs in the same group, so not much of a sample.

 

Championship v. Championship: P12 W6 D1 L5

Not much of a deviation from what you’d expect.

 

Championship v. League 1: P22 W13 D5 L4

Of the four losers, Dumbarton stayed up after losing to E.Fife in 2016. Raith (0-1 v. Alloa), Dumbarton (1-3 v. Ayr) & Falkirk (0-1 v. Montrose) were all on their way to relegation 10 months later.

 

Championship v. League 2: P19 W18 D1 L0

The type of percentage that inspires confidence. Dumbarton’s 0-0 v. Annan two years back, when the Sons were already out, is the only blemish.

 

Championship v. Non-League: P2 W1 D1 L0

Q.o.S. could not beat East Kilbride - and it wasn’t in 2016, the month before Dobbie arrived, but the following year. Dobbie scored in the shoot-out. No other Doonhamer managed that.

 

League 1 v. Premiership: P21 W3 D6 L12

Not stats to fill your boots by. Alloa knocked-out holders Ross County 3-2, Peterhead knocked-out Dundee 2-1 in the same year and Ayr beat dysfunctional Killie 1-0 in the opening Friday night game two seasons ago.

 

League 1 v. Championship: P12 W1 D2 L9

Good percentage for the “senior” clubs. Arbroath’s 4-1 over Ross last year the only home win. Morton (at Albion) and Pars (at E.Fife) the other second-tier clubs to drop points

 

League 1 v. League 1: P9 W5 D4 L1

Odd that there have been only 9 games. Pot luck with the draw I suppose. Queen’s Park at Stenny in 2016 have been the only away winners.

 

League 1 v. League 2: P17 W11 D2 L4

Just one win better than the pair of almost identical 59% win ratios in the other “one division gap” fixtures above.

 

League 1 v. Non-League: P2 W2 D0 L0

Straightforward wins for Alloa v. Cove and Stranraer v. E.Kilbride.

 

League 2 v. Premiership: P18 W2 D1 L15

McAllister’s last-gasp pen sunk Hearts at Balmoor two years back and Annan beat Accies last year. St.Mirren being held 0-0 at Queen’s Park last July was the only draw. Six Premiership wins have been by the odd goal.

 

League 2 v. Championship: P15 W3 D3 L9

The away team won all six of these last year, by a 20-2 aggregate goal tally. That shifted the percentages back towards what might be expected.

 

League 2 v. League 1: P13 W5 D1 L7

Not much seasonal variation. More away wins than would be expected, as third-tier teams don’t usually start odds-on away to basement outfits.

 

League 2 v. League 2: P9 W3 D3 L3

As with the intra-League One games, a paucity of fixtures and results about what you’d expect.

 

League 2 v. Non-League: P4 W3 D0 L1

Stenny lost to E.Kilbride. The other fixtures have been close.

 

Non-League v. Premiership: P4 W0 D0 L4

Only 11-1 on aggregate to the top-flight sides, with Shire, EK, Cove and Spartans not conceding more than three.

 

Non-League v. Championship: P2 W0 D0 L2

Struggling Raith and Dundee United sides saw-off Cove and Buckie respectively.

 

Non-League v. League 1: P4 W1 D1 L2

Cove beat Raith, Spartans drew with Dumbarton. Buckie let in five and EK six though.

 

Non-League v. League 2: P2 W1 D0 L1

Cove beat Montrose 3-0, Shire lost 2-0 to Annan.

     

[Lou Brusch]

Any idea why Ladbrokes wasn’t on the sleeve badges of either team tonight? The sponsorship certainly hasn’t ended

[South Lanarkshire Jag]

2 hours ago, Lou Brusch said:

Any idea why Ladbrokes wasn’t on the sleeve badges of either team tonight? The sponsorship certainly hasn’t ended

"GVC, owners of Ladbrokes Coral, have announced a number of initiatives to assist safer gambling sand ensure responsible gambling advertising. As part of these initiatives, the visibility of their betting brands and betting advertising around sporting events will be significantly reduced from mid 2019. This will have an impact on a number of our sponsorship assets currently in place at SPFL member clubs' stadia." - as per the SPFL media guidelines. 

[Poet of the Macabre]

I know it's not a surprise at all but they've done a really poor job promoting this tournament. Maybe it wouldn't have a massive impact but the laziness from the SPFL does grate.

[invergowrie arab]

Would I be correct in thinking this is where we stand currently

In 

Hearts 

United

E Fife

R County

Forfar

Arbroath

Hibs

Dundee

Peterhead

Inverness

Motherwell

Morton

Partick 

Hamilton

Airdrie

Ayr

Livi

Stranraer

Dunfermline

Edinburgh City

Albion Rovers

 

Out or highly likely out

St Mirren

East Kilbride

Berwick

Falkirk

Clyde

Queens Park

Annan

Dumbarton

Queens

Raith

Cove

Stirling 

Alloa

Elgin

Brechin 

St Johnston 

Montrose

Stenhousemuir

Cowdenbeath

 

[Fuctifano]

In here seems best. Teams left that can get to 8 points or more, their max total, and the current GD

 

Group A: Hearts (11, +2), East Fife (9, +2)

Group B: Ross County (12, +8), Forfar (12, +6)

Group C : Hibs (11, +5), Arbroath (9, +3), Elgin (8, +2)

Group D : ICT (10, +4), Dundee (10, +3)

Group E: Motherwell (12, +9), Morton (9, +9), QoS (8, 0)

Group F: Partick Thistle (10, +2), Hamilton (9, +2), Airdrie (9, 0), Queen’s Park (8,-1)

Group G: Livingston (11, +2), Ayr (9, +7)

Group H: Dunfermline (9, +6), East Kilbride (8,0)

 

Groups D and H involve those two teams playing each other as the one remaining match. Group H will not provide one of the 4 best runners up.

Looks like Motherwell, County, and 2 from 3 of Livingston, Hearts and Hibs will be seeded. Livi could end up having to score quite a few vs *checks notes* Berwick. Ah.

Would think anyone getting to 9 who doesn’t win their group will get a best 4 runners up spot looking at the fixtures left.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Fuctifano

[invergowrie arab]

8 minutes ago, Fuctifano said:

In here seems best. Teams left that can get to 8 points or more, their max total, and the current GD

 

Group A: Hearts (11, +2), East Fife (9, +2)

Group B: Ross County (12, +8), Forfar (12, +6)

Group C : Hibs (11, +5), Arbroath (9, +3), Elgin (8, +2)

Group D : ICT (10, +4), Dundee (10, +3)

Group E: Motherwell (12, +9), Morton (9, +9), QoS (8, 0)

Group F: Partick Thistle (10, +2), Hamilton (9, +2), Airdrie (9, 0), Queen’s Park (8,-1)

Group G: Livingston (11, +2), Ayr (9, +7)

Group H: Dunfermline (9, +6), East Kilbride (8,0)

 

Groups D and H involve those two teams playing each other as the one remaining match. Group H will not provide one of the 4 best runners up.

Looks like Motherwell, County, and 2 from 3 of Livingston, Hearts and Hibs will be seeded. Livi could end up having to score quite a few vs *checks notes* Berwick. Ah.

Would think anyone getting to 9 who doesn’t win their group will get a best 4 runners up spot looking at the fixtures left.

 

East Fife and Hearts have to play each other so *probably * wont both go through

[vikingTON]

23 hours ago, Fuctifano said:

Would think anyone getting to 9 who doesn’t win their group will get a best 4 runners up spot looking at the fixtures left.

Thanks to GD Morton could quite foreseeably qualify on just 7 points now.

[RossBFaeDundee]

23 hours ago, Fuctifano said:

Would think anyone getting to 9 who doesn’t win their group will get a best 4 runners up spot looking at the fixtures left.

Hell, any team with 8 and a decent GD should be a comfy shout.

[EpicMike]

14 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Hell, any team with 8 and a decent GD should be a comfy shout.

No team has ever qualified as best runner up with less than 9 points. Granted, the group format hasn't been in place for long.

[RossBFaeDundee]

1 minute ago, EpicMike said:

No team has ever qualified as best runner up with less than 9 points. Granted, the group format hasn't been in place for long.

Looking at the state of the other groups though, it seems decent enough.

[EpicMike]

Just now, RossBFaeDundee said:

Looking at the state of the other groups though, it seems decent enough.

I think Hamilton and Ayr will finish on 9 which only leaves 2 spots left, Arbroath just need to beat Alloa to also reach 9. The only team I can see qualifying with 8 points is Morton with +6 GD but if they beat QotS they'll also have 9.

Reckon Dundee will need to beat ICT to progress.

[Archie McSquackle]

I noticed St. Mirren's result against Albion Rovers during the week and I realised they were in a group with a Championship side, two League 2 teams and a non-league side. I'm not getting on at how they've struggled but it seems odd that Group E for example have Motherwell from the Premiership, two Championship teams, a League 1 side and a League 2 team - a much more even spread.

Looking back through the thread it appears only the top two teams are seeded then there's a free for all. Any idea why it's not seeded through all 5 teams to give a more even spread?

[Dunning1874]

17 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said:

I noticed St. Mirren's result against Albion Rovers during the week and I realised they were in a group with a Championship side, two League 2 teams and a non-league side. I'm not getting on at how they've struggled but it seems odd that Group E for example have Motherwell from the Premiership, two Championship teams, a League 1 side and a League 2 team - a much more even spread.

Looking back through the thread it appears only the top two teams are seeded then there's a free for all. Any idea why it's not seeded through all 5 teams to give a more even spread?

The reason behind it has never been explained, but I’d guess that as they do the seeding first then the regional splits after then seeding the whole thing would risk too many geographical anomalies, along the lines of Dumbarton having to go in the North section when they were seeded.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Dunning1874