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Kuro

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54 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

This is amazing if slightly dread inducing viewing. Just watched the Air France 447 one, the co-pilot just inexplicably pulling back on his stick the entire time... :o

That's one of the most incredible ones, Co-pilot Bonin just held his stick slightly back for three minutes causing it to stall, nothing wrong with the plane at all just sheer idiocy killed them all.  I've read a bit about most of the ones I've watched, all they had to go was push forward tilting the nose down a bit and increase power slightly and they would have accelerated out of their fall.  If they did this any time before about ten thousand feet they would have been fine.  And the other pilot had no idea he was doing it till it was too late.  Amazing.

The pitot tubes froze so were giving false readings causing the autopilot to click off, but all they needed to do was just keep flying the plane, keep it level, maintain approximate speed and altitude and there would be no problem.  Inexplicably he reacted by pulling back and kept pulling back for three minutes wondering why the plane was stalling.  They say it was falling towards the sea at about 120mph, that's downwards not forward.

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  • 1 month later...
That's one of the most incredible ones, Co-pilot Bonin just held his stick slightly back for three minutes causing it to stall, nothing wrong with the plane at all just sheer idiocy killed them all.  I've read a bit about most of the ones I've watched, all they had to go was push forward tilting the nose down a bit and increase power slightly and they would have accelerated out of their fall.  If they did this any time before about ten thousand feet they would have been fine.  And the other pilot had no idea he was doing it till it was too late.  Amazing.
The pitot tubes froze so were giving false readings causing the autopilot to click off, but all they needed to do was just keep flying the plane, keep it level, maintain approximate speed and altitude and there would be no problem.  Inexplicably he reacted by pulling back and kept pulling back for three minutes wondering why the plane was stalling.  They say it was falling towards the sea at about 120mph, that's downwards not forward.
There is a big push in airlines to get more training in stalling and spinning recognition and recovery techniques because of incidents like these. Civilian flying training has been heavily focused on system management as technology has developed to the detriment of actual seat of the pants reactive skills. It is pretty easy to recognise a stall but very difficult to disbelieve what the all powerful flight management systems are telling you especially when you have to justify to the senior pilots if they are turned off or not followed.
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11 hours ago, Black Dug said:
On 22/04/2019 at 21:54, Kuro said:
That's one of the most incredible ones, Co-pilot Bonin just held his stick slightly back for three minutes causing it to stall, nothing wrong with the plane at all just sheer idiocy killed them all.  I've read a bit about most of the ones I've watched, all they had to go was push forward tilting the nose down a bit and increase power slightly and they would have accelerated out of their fall.  If they did this any time before about ten thousand feet they would have been fine.  And the other pilot had no idea he was doing it till it was too late.  Amazing.
The pitot tubes froze so were giving false readings causing the autopilot to click off, but all they needed to do was just keep flying the plane, keep it level, maintain approximate speed and altitude and there would be no problem.  Inexplicably he reacted by pulling back and kept pulling back for three minutes wondering why the plane was stalling.  They say it was falling towards the sea at about 120mph, that's downwards not forward.

There is a big push in airlines to get more training in stalling and spinning recognition and recovery techniques because of incidents like these. Civilian flying training has been heavily focused on system management as technology has developed to the detriment of actual seat of the pants reactive skills. It is pretty easy to recognise a stall but very difficult to disbelieve what the all powerful flight management systems are telling you especially when you have to justify to the senior pilots if they are turned off or not followed.

It's very interesting, apparently that plane doesn't allow one pilot to see what the other pilot is doing.  If they had the yolk instead of the side stick the other pilot could have simply seen that he was pulling back and took control of the situation averting disaster.  They have to factor stuff like that into the design, and from every crash or incident they learn more.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I watched an Aircraft Investigation episode the other day about "the worst aviation disaster in history" which was a KLM jet speeding down the runway covered in heavy fog at Tenerife for take off and crashing directly into a Pan Am jet which was taxiing across the runway. 

I'd never heard of it before but turns out it was in 1977, that's why. 

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13 hours ago, Dee Man said:

I watched an Aircraft Investigation episode the other day about "the worst aviation disaster in history" which was a KLM jet speeding down the runway covered in heavy fog at Tenerife for take off and crashing directly into a Pan Am jet which was taxiing across the runway. 

I'd never heard of it before but turns out it was in 1977, that's why. 

 

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