It's getting hot in here!

[Scary Bear]

On the car v public transport topic. People will never give up their cars while public transport is expensive, poorly run, unreliable and generally crap.

Even if public transport was good people would be reluctant. A car is just so much handier than public transport for things like running kids about, trips to the recycling centre, taking kids on long distance trips, shopping, going to rural areas, etc.

On the M8, that motorway through Glasgow is a planning disaster. If it can be moved or got rid of it would make for a better city centre.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

I haven’t been on the trains for a while now, but booked for Manchester for the April holidays. £170 return from Kirkcaldy to Manchester. That was on Trainline with cheap tickets that can only be used on a specific service and that give you a maximum of 10 minutes to change trains. I’m looking forward to a stressful journey and the occasional heated argument with a train conductor. 

A quick look on National Rail suggests that's an "anytime" ticket that is the most flexible ticket you can get, you shouldn't have any problems getting the next train if you miss a connection. And it looks like you've picked a time which involves changing at Edinburgh as well as York, if you'd picked one that only changes at York you would have saved £50. They don't make it easy.

Edited April 1, 2023 by welshbairn

[Hedgecutter]

Folk with cars won't consider public transport unless it's cheaper, or they're planning on drinking at some point.

If anyone's serious about greater uptake, public transport should never be more expensive than private forms.  Either that or encourage everyone to drink more.

[Smurph]

A more pressing public transport issue in Glasgow imo, before considering making it free, is the integration of the three main transport systems (rail, bus, subway) so you can actually get from one side to another efficiently.

I've never bothered to learn how to drive since I live in the city and can get around no bother. It would also get in the way of my drinking.

[Todd_is_God]

33 minutes ago, Smurph said:

A more pressing public transport issue in Glasgow imo, before considering making it free, is the integration of the three main transport systems (rail, bus, subway) so you can actually get from one side to another efficiently.

Agreed. It also needs to be publicly owned. Private ownership will always be looking to maximise profits, leading to the current scenario where late night / overnight services outwith the city centre are extremely poor or non-existant.

There also needs to be a complete overhaul of bus routes in areas where large scale new build developments are not served at all by busses because the decades old bus routes currently in use don't go anywhere near them.

Until that happens private car use will not reduce.

[Scary Bear]

4 hours ago, welshbairn said:

A quick look on National Rail suggests that's an "anytime" ticket that is the most flexible ticket you can get, you shouldn't have any problems getting the next train if you miss a connection. And it looks like you've picked a time which involves changing at Edinburgh as well as York, if you'd picked one that only changes at York you would have saved £50. They don't make it easy.

According to the ticket info on Trainline it doesn’t appear to be an ‘anytime’ ticket.

I’ll just cross my fingers the trains run on time that day. The booking experience isn’t making me want to become a regular on the trains.

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Scary Bear

[welshbairn]

4 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

According to the ticket info on Trainline it doesn’t appear to be an ‘anytime’ ticket.

I’ll just cross my fingers the trains run on time that day. The booking experience isn’t making me want to become a regular on the trains.

 

That's outrageous, you paid the maximum amount possible and you're restricted to Transpennine trains, and no refund available. Too late, but next time avoid Trainline, check out the prices at different times on National Rail and book the best deal on Scotrail, or any other normal train company's website. 

[Scary Bear]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That's outrageous, you paid the maximum amount possible and you're restricted to Transpennine trains, and no refund available. Too late, but next time avoid Trainline, check out the prices at different times on National Rail and book the best deal on Scotrail, or any other normal train company's website. 

I agree, it is outrageous.

[Soapy FFC]

9 hours ago, Smurph said:

A more pressing public transport issue in Glasgow imo, before considering making it free, is the integration of the three main transport systems (rail, bus, subway) so you can actually get from one side to another efficiently.

I've never bothered to learn how to drive since I live in the city and can get around no bother. It would also get in the way of my drinking.

I remember years ago visiting a friend in the Netherlands who lived in a town outside Amsterdam. When you got off the train at his station, the bus was sitting waiting on passengers. If the train was late, the bus waited for the train. Whereas, when I used to use the train from Falkirk to Edinburgh for Uni, I lost count of the number of times the bus would be pulling out of Falkirk High just as the train was arriving.

[BillyAnchor]

Yesterday we were on a pre-evacuation warning as wild fires came close to us (foothills of the Rockies). Meanwhile they are starting development all over on empty land despite empty shops and offices all over Denver after Covid.

[coprolite]

23 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

On the car v public transport topic. People will never give up their cars while public transport is expensive, poorly run, unreliable and generally crap.

Even if public transport was good people would be reluctant. A car is just so much handier than public transport for things like running kids about, trips to the recycling centre, taking kids on long distance trips, shopping, going to rural areas, etc.

On the M8, that motorway through Glasgow is a planning disaster. If it can be moved or got rid of it would make for a better city centre.

People don't need to own their own cars to use a car though.

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with the whole arrangements with shared scooter and shared bikes that can be used when needed. Car clubs (which are similar in principle) are on the increase, especially in cities. 

I don't think that sharing or short term hire is the answer or even a big part of the answer but i think it can be part of a suite of measures, with better public transport and better urban planning, to reduce the number of cars on the go. 

[Bairnardo]

I stay 11km from my work. 

 

I cannot get public transport to a dayshift and be there on time. Its not possible. 

To get home, I'd add roughly 1.5 hours onto a 12 hour shift. To travel 11km. 

On a nighshift, to get there and get home via public transport, it becomes in the vicinity of a 15 stint out the house. 

Nope. 

[Todd_is_God]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with the whole arrangements with shared scooter and shared bikes that can be used when needed.

Lolwut?

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with leasing Audi's on PCP deals so they can keep up with the image they wish to project on social media.

Shared scooters and shared bikes

Edited April 2, 2023 by Todd_is_God

[Scary Bear]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

People don't need to own their own cars to use a car though.

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with the whole arrangements with shared scooter and shared bikes that can be used when needed. Car clubs (which are similar in principle) are on the increase, especially in cities. 

I don't think that sharing or short term hire is the answer or even a big part of the answer but i think it can be part of a suite of measures, with better public transport and better urban planning, to reduce the number of cars on the go. 

People don’t need to own their own cars but they choose to. They like being able to jump in the car and go wherever they want when they please.

The only time in my life where I have pretty much exclusively used public transport was when I lived in London. Even then I had a car sitting rotting on a street outside my house and used this very occasionally. Although, I probably would have got rid of that in time.

I’m not sure that getting public transport to an acceptable standard in Scotland will happen anytime soon, so the only way they’ll get people out of their cars is to make cars prohibitively expensive, which seems to be the current plan as car prices are mental and they are bringing in LEZ zones which will penalise the bangers that people can afford to buy.

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Scary Bear

[coprolite]

27 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Lolwut?

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with leasing Audi's on PCP deals so they can keep up with the image they wish to project on social media.

Shared scooters and shared bikes

I must be imagining it then. 

There are lots of people with big cars, yes. 

Are you somehow suggesting that Colin Montgomery is to blame? 

[coprolite]

19 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

People don’t need to own their own cars but they choose to. They like being able to jump in the car and go wherever they want when they please.

The only time in my life where I have pretty much exclusively used public transport was when I lived in London. Even then I had a car sitting rotting on a street outside my house and used this very occasionally. Although, I probably would have got rid of that in time.

I’m not sure that getting public transport to an acceptable standard in Scotland will happen anytime soon, so the only way they’ll get people out of their cars is to make cars prohibitively expensive, which seems to be the current plan as car prices are mental and they are bringing in LEZ zones which will penalise the bangers that people can afford to buy.

 

There's definitely too much stick and not enough carrot. 

 

[Todd_is_God]

20 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I must be imagining it then. 

There are lots of people with big cars, yes. 

Are you somehow suggesting that Colin Montgomery is to blame? 

You're either imagining it, or are basing your opinion of "young people" based on a group of people not typical of that demographic.

Tarquin and Sebastian might have a jolly good time sharing a scooter; the majority of young people want the most expensive car they can "afford"

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

You're either imagining it, or are basing your opinion of "young people" based on a group of people not typical of that demographic.

Tarquin and Sebastian might have a jolly good time sharing a scooter; the majority of young people want the most expensive car they can "afford"

Young people, like people of all ages, vary enormously in what their preferences are and not just because of their social background. 

Your assumption doesn't ring true with me. Sure, there are a lot of permatanned love island- watching twats who want to spend 50% of their income on a misguided status symbol, but there's also a lot of yoghurt-knitting vegans. Imo most young people and most people in general just want to get where they want to be.

At the moment, having a private car is the best way to acheive that. 

Imo, private car ownership isn't sustainable in the long term so something will have to change. 

I was suggesting possible alternative arrangements that might work for some people. I think i was fairly clear that it wouldn't work for everyone. 

Not sure what your point is. 

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

They need to get rid of the parking spaces in Edinburgh city centre to stop so much traffic coming in. Close the car parks as well. If they have nowhere to park they will have to get the bus/train or stay away. They will not do that though as they love the money they make from the parking meters.

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I was suggesting possible alternative arrangements that might work for some people. I think i was fairly clear that it wouldn't work for everyone. 

No, you quite clearly stated

4 hours ago, coprolite said:

Youngsters seem quite comfortable with the whole arrangements with shared scooter and shared bikes that can be used when needed.

Which is, quite frankly, utter nonsense.

Quote

Not sure what your point is. 

It's quite simple tbh. Unless you live, work and socialise within the city, having a private car is a necessity.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Todd_is_God