It's getting hot in here!

[Todd_is_God]

8 minutes ago, virginton said:

The reason why the M8 is used is because it is a more direct and therefore faster route to cut right through the city centre than the M74 which bypasses it.

Have you ever driven along the M8 during the day? It's absolutely not faster so this is clearly not the reason it's used.

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

I agree that public transport should be made cheaper, more accessible and practically 24/7 throughout Scotland's urban corridor. We should start by expanding the RET system to all forms of public transport - and then aggressively discounting the rate for public transport options compared to the road alternatives. 

That task should be rolled out in tandem with making private car use progressively more expensive and less practical, with no resources spent on nonsense road expansion projects that directly contradict the SG's own stated targets. 

And yet nothing of the sort is being proposed.

It's almost as though these are nothing more than soundbite policies aimed at getting loonball treehuggers clapping like seals rather than any serious proposal to provide any viable alternatives to private car use.

[ICTChris]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Leaving the M8 between J15 & J19 means you will enter the LEZ

A Low Emission Zone with a motorway going through it, perfect.

Edinburgh is introducing a LEZ but your car would have to be ancient to be subject to any charge.  By the time it comes in you'd have to be driving a car that's 18 years old if it's petrol, I think.

 

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, ICTChris said:

A Low Emission Zone with a motorway going through it, perfect.

Edinburgh is introducing a LEZ but your car would have to be ancient to be subject to any charge.  By the time it comes in you'd have to be driving a car that's 18 years old if it's petrol, I think.

The Greater Manchester LEZ is the same tbf.

The rules for all LEZs in Scotland are going to be the same. It's almost as if modern cars are not quite the polluting menace they are made out to be.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

And yet nothing of the sort is being proposed.

 

There are proposals for free public transport in Glasgow. https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-free-public-transport-plan-25763408

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, craigkillie said:

There are proposals for free public transport in Glasgow. https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/glasgow-free-public-transport-plan-25763408

And?

[craigkillie]

So there is clear evidence of an attempted move towards increasing public transport use in Glasgow, and if it is successful there would be undoubted pressure to extend that to other places in the country. Reducing these shorter trips within the city will reduce the strain on the roads surrounding Glasgow, making the long-overdue removal of the M8 section in the city centre more practical.

[ICTChris]

I saw a clip on social media someone made of the M8 around Anderston, I think, and it looks like it's about to fall apart anyway.  

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

So there is clear evidence of an attempted move towards increasing public transport use in Glasgow, and if it is successful there would be undoubted pressure to extend that to other places in the country. Reducing these shorter trips within the city will reduce the strain on the roads surrounding Glasgow, making the long-overdue removal of the M8 section in the city centre more practical.

Public transport within Glasgow is already relatively good. So, no, it won't.

[craigkillie]

It might be good, but it's not free.

[Todd_is_God]

7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It might be good, but it's not free.

Please explain how making the existing public transport network within Glasgow free will reduce the volume of traffic from outside both coming into or passing through it?

Edited April 1, 2023 by Todd_is_God

[coprolite]

33 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Please explain how making the existing public transport network within Glasgow free will reduce the volume of traffic from outside both coming into or passing through it?

It would make it more economically viable for people to travel into Glasgow on a paid service if they don't then have to pay to get from the hub station to their destination. Obviously. 

 

 

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

It would make it more economically viable for people to travel into Glasgow on a paid service if they don't then have to pay to get from the hub station to their destination. Obviously. 

The above would be true if the service to get into Glasgow was available. Right now it isn't, particularly early in the morning and late / overnight.

On top of that, the current price difference between getting into and getting into and then around Glasgow on the public transport that is available is currently negligible, however. In many cases it's the same because of the likes of all day tickets.

It's also worth noting that the scheme in Tallinn is only free for those who live in Talinn. Not for tourists or those travelling into Tallinn from outside.

Still wouldn't reduce the volume of traffic on the M8, though, as that is mainly traffic going through Glasgow to elsewhere.

 

[Scary Bear]

21 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Talking of public transport, was looking to book some trains earlier.

State of the prices. Fucking howling.

I haven’t been on the trains for a while now, but booked for Manchester for the April holidays. £170 return from Kirkcaldy to Manchester. That was on Trainline with cheap tickets that can only be used on a specific service and that give you a maximum of 10 minutes to change trains. I’m looking forward to a stressful journey and the occasional heated argument with a train conductor. 

[DA Baracus]

3 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I haven’t been on the trains for a while now, but booked for Manchester for the April holidays. £170 return from Kirkcaldy to Manchester. That was on Trainline with cheap tickets that can only be used on a specific service and that give you a maximum of 10 minutes to change trains. I’m looking forward to a stressful journey and the occasional heated argument with a train conductor. 

A ludicrous price. Good luck with the change of trains!

[Scary Bear]

Just now, DA Baracus said:

A ludicrous price. Good luck with the change of trains!

It’s a worry. I’ll be sitting watching the train app and seeing that the train is now 10 minutes behind schedule, I’m missing my connection and my ticket won’t be valid anymore. In hindsight I should have went for the more expensive tickets or just booked a hire car, but £170 is already outrageous and I couldn’t be bothered driving.

[coprolite]

23 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The above would be true if the service to get into Glasgow was available. Right now it isn't, particularly early in the morning and late / overnight.

On top of that, the current price difference between getting into and getting into and then around Glasgow on the public transport that is available is currently negligible, however. In many cases it's the same because of the likes of all day tickets.

It's also worth noting that the scheme in Tallinn is only free for those who live in Talinn. Not for tourists or those travelling into Tallinn from outside.

Still wouldn't reduce the volume of traffic on the M8, though, as that is mainly traffic going through Glasgow to elsewhere.

 

I'm sorry Todd, you asked "how", not "how much". 

Clearly you have detailed journey statistics at your fingertips. 

And people forget that traders need access to Dixons

[vikingTON]

15 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Have you ever driven along the M8 during the day? It's absolutely not faster so this is clearly not the reason it's used.

Lol wut

Someone who is driving from Paisley (or Kilmarnock, wherever SW) to Stirling/Edinburgh is absolutely going to use the M8 run-through at any time of day. Because it's the more direct and faster option than taking the M74 to bypass the city centre- which they could use instead just before they reach the Kingston Bridge.

But there's no inherent need for that one mile motorway through route between the Kingston Bridge and the north side of Glasgow city centre. Just like Edinburgh, Aberdeen or indeed London, the main through traffic can and should be sent to bypass the city. The M74 is that bypass route for all traffic south of the river. 

No amount of foot-stomping tantrums is going to make your objection credible. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

23 minutes ago, Scary Bear said:

I haven’t been on the trains for a while now, but booked for Manchester for the April holidays. £170 return from Kirkcaldy to Manchester. That was on Trainline with cheap tickets that can only be used on a specific service and that give you a maximum of 10 minutes to change trains. I’m looking forward to a stressful journey and the occasional heated argument with a train conductor. 

It will likely be a specific service for one part of the journey only - presumably Edinburgh to Manchester. Unless it states a specific advance fare for the other connections too, you can use any earlier train to get to Edinburgh or wherever the stated train starts from.  

I reckon if you had tried splitting the journey, the cost would have been lower. Although sometimes it's actually better value (a few quid) to get an 'advance' from your nearest station.

It's a minefield that needs rationalisation, a removal of the peak fares nonsense, aggressive RET pricing and greater capacity and later/overnight services, especially on Sundays.

That is the only transport model that is fit for this century though. While the huge car manufacturing lobby is peddling EVs as a solution, the amount of resources required to produce (and produce again - because within two minutes they'll all be flogging a new and improved EV) cannot be sustained at a population-wide level. Private car ownership has to be phased out in urban areas and over time in much of the rest of the country too. 

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

19 minutes ago, virginton said:

 

No amount of foot-stomping tantrums is going to make your objection credible. 

[Scary Bear]

14 minutes ago, virginton said:

It will likely be a specific service for one part of the journey only - presumably Edinburgh to Manchester. Unless it states a specific advance fare for the other connections too, you can use any earlier train to get to Edinburgh or wherever the stated train starts from.  

I reckon if you had tried splitting the journey, the cost would have been lower. Although sometimes it's actually better value (a few quid) to get an 'advance' from your nearest station.

It's a minefield that needs rationalisation, a removal of the peak fares nonsense, aggressive RET pricing and greater capacity and later/overnight services, especially on Sundays.

That is the only transport model that is fit for this century though. While the huge car manufacturing lobby is peddling EVs as a solution, the amount of resources required to produce (and produce again - because within two minutes they'll all be flogging a new and improved EV) cannot be sustained at a population-wide level. Private car ownership has to be phased out in urban areas and over time in much of the rest of the country too. 

Trainline seem to do that split ticket / advance singles thing now too but I’m not sure they are that good at it. I tried to get a refund but I was getting £3 back as virtually all the tickets were non-refundable advance tickets and there’s a £10 admin fee.

I’m going with my son so in hindsight I should have paid £30 for a family railcard and that would have saved me £20 to £30 even with the cost of the railcard factored in. Bit rusty with booking trains.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Scary Bear