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Alex McLeish Is Sacked.


Ludo*1

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It's definitely a problem in the older generation of "guid football men" that they seem not just oblivious to the future, but actively fearful and mocking of it.  Some are immune - Big Sam and his jug of gravy would probably be the first to be lumped into a group like that, but he is often reported as quite progressive in terms of techniques.  
However, it gets exacerbated so much that you do get people desperate to take the opposite stance.  If a dinosaur like Johnny Manager thinks this guy's rubbish, then obviously he must be good, because Johnny's been wrong before.  People were effusive about Cathro before he'd done much at all, desperate to be proved right that all these new fangled techniques would lead to him being a pure brilliant football manager.  As it was, as someone else said, he was hopelessly out of his depth, and emptied in fairly embarrassing fashion.
There's obviously a middle-ground there.  I found the hipster stance on him amusing, but I wasn't going to jump to the "lol he reads books the fucking geek" side of the fence with the old guard.  Cathro will have many great qualities that will make him invaluable in certain roles, but I don't think we should be just throwing out new age "new tactics/tear it up and start again/new ideas" stuff without actually checking if they're actually any good.
What I took from that article is the level of hard work that the players will now be expecting from their management tean when they turn up for national duty and the amount of research/preparation etc they expect to be done. Its the whole marginal gains thing and we seem hopelessly behind the curve
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1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:
4 minutes ago, forameus said:
It's definitely a problem in the older generation of "guid football men" that they seem not just oblivious to the future, but actively fearful and mocking of it.  Some are immune - Big Sam and his jug of gravy would probably be the first to be lumped into a group like that, but he is often reported as quite progressive in terms of techniques.  
However, it gets exacerbated so much that you do get people desperate to take the opposite stance.  If a dinosaur like Johnny Manager thinks this guy's rubbish, then obviously he must be good, because Johnny's been wrong before.  People were effusive about Cathro before he'd done much at all, desperate to be proved right that all these new fangled techniques would lead to him being a pure brilliant football manager.  As it was, as someone else said, he was hopelessly out of his depth, and emptied in fairly embarrassing fashion.
There's obviously a middle-ground there.  I found the hipster stance on him amusing, but I wasn't going to jump to the "lol he reads books the fucking geek" side of the fence with the old guard.  Cathro will have many great qualities that will make him invaluable in certain roles, but I don't think we should be just throwing out new age "new tactics/tear it up and start again/new ideas" stuff without actually checking if they're actually any good.

What I took from that article is the level of hard work that the players will now be expecting from their management tean when they turn up for national duty and the amount of research/preparation etc they expect to be done. Its the whole marginal gains thing and we seem hopelessly behind the curve

To be fair though, you can say that there's a level of hard work that the players are expecting, but we've been hopelessly lacking in the level of hard work some of the players have been giving.  That absolutely needs to stop.

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1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:
1 hour ago, swing_kinker said:
Should be is miles away from definitely will

So we have the players to maybe qualify? Going back to my original post then. We don't have the players really. The best we can hope for is a glorious failure which is still failure. Like I said it doesn't matter who the manager is until we sort out the bigger picture of investing in our sport and providing the facilities and coaches required to get good youth players. It's like sacking the driver of a rusty old banger in formula one.

Alright pack it in lads no point in turning up,  this fella says it's over....

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To be fair though, you can say that there's a level of hard work that the players are expecting, but we've been hopelessly lacking in the level of hard work some of the players have been giving.  That absolutely needs to stop.
I agree. This is why, for example I said before I think Kieran Tierney should be told to f**k off if he doesnt turn up for the next set of games as he has already been laying the excuses for.

Also applies to others too. A hard line should have been taken with the bullshit from some players and clubs around the Kazakhstan game.
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Kris Boyd was on SSN when I went home for lunch earlier, and I found myself both laughing at him, and then agreeing with him.

He started off saying McLeish got really 'unlucky with the amount of call offs for Kazakhstan'.  No Kris, the call offs were mainly because of McLeish m4.

I then agreed when he said he should never have got the job.  and that he was a cheap and easy option because he was out of work.  What the SFA should've and now should do, is go for someone already in a job, whether it be another country (you could tell he was implying Michael O'Neill) or someone at a club.  Entice them with a decent salary.  Push the boat out and get the most out of our fairly decent squad.  Usually unemployed football managers are unemployed for a very good reason.  He didn't use the words 'touch' or 'him' or 'bargepole' but you got his gist.

Not often I agree with him, but he was spot on here IMO.

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1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Wasn't that because he couldn't apply.what he learnt through scientific analysis in a practical setting? He's personally unimpressive, rightly or wrongly football still needs a manager of coach to impose himself before his methods will be bought in to. Bathroom couldn't do that.

I'm sure all Hearts fans would agree that their performances under Cathro were complete toilet.

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11 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Kris Boyd was on SSN when I went home for lunch earlier, and I found myself both laughing at him, and then agreeing with him.

He started off saying McLeish got really 'unlucky with the amount of call offs for Kazakhstan'.  No Kris, the call offs were mainly because of McLeish m4.

Not buying this entirely.  Obviously we'll never know the truth, but there were a ridiculous number of call-offs, leading to us really scraping the barrel.  I expect it was just as much to do with the growing strength of the clubs just saying "f**k you" to the national team as being down to McLeish himself.  I'm not sure Strachan would have really got much more luck.  But I guess we'll never know.

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3 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Unlike seemingly a lot of people, I dont have a huge problen with Moyes

Aye, he wouldn't be the worst appointment in the world imo. 

59 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:
1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said:
Wasn't that because he couldn't apply.what he learnt through scientific analysis in a practical setting? He's personally unimpressive, rightly or wrongly football still needs a manager of coach to impose himself before his methods will be bought in to. Bathroom couldn't do that.

For me he was ridiculed because he wasnt "old school" enough. I coukd be wrong but thats the way I see it and the way I see the problems we face at National level and probably at grass roots level too.

I thought allot of the ridiculing came because it was fairly obvious from very early on that he had absolutely no man management skills, evidently very good ideas in a few regards but he'll never be a manager. 

 

If the manager has to be Scottish I'd really like either Clarke, Neil or Ross (in that order) and I wouldn't mind David Moyes, I think he could make it work. 

 

Anyone got some good foreign suggestions? Billic seemed to have a decent international record, a poor domestic one though etc. 

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6 minutes ago, forameus said:

Not buying this entirely.  Obviously we'll never know the truth, but there were a ridiculous number of call-offs, leading to us really scraping the barrel.  I expect it was just as much to do with the growing strength of the clubs just saying "f**k you" to the national team as being down to McLeish himself.  I'm not sure Strachan would have really got much more luck.  But I guess we'll never know.

Possibly, but then again there seems to have been more players asking not to be chosen for Scotland since McLeish took over.

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