Jump to content
BoydiesBelly

Next Scotland Manager

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, velo army said:

Aye I was pished when I posted that. I take back the "fuckin weird" bit. One thing I keep forgetting (and others too) is that Moyes has continually distanced himself from the Scotland job.

Ha...fair enough.  To me Moyes always seems to only distance himself just enough to not be linked.  I don't think it'd be his preferred role, he clearly wants a club job, but if his other targets fall through I'd imagine he'd take it.  He's not stupid, he'll never quite come out and say "GIE ME IT" but he also won't say no publicly.

For the avoidance of doubt, he's pretty fucking far up the list of the possible suspects, just not at the top in my own opinion.  We could do far worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bilic has a better overall win % than Moyes, though neither of them are exactly smelling of roses when you look at their recent form on that front.

 

I suppose the interesting thing is they both managed West Ham in a short spell of time and Bilic won 37% of his games while Moyes won 29%.

Edited by MixuFixit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Bilic has a better overall win % than Moyes, though neither of them are exactly smelling of roses when you look at their recent form on that front.

 

I suppose the interesting thing is they both managed West Ham in a short spell of time and Bilic won 37% of his games while Moyes won 29%.

What was points per game like? 

The first season Bilic had at West Ham was really good tbf but I think he was probably at a bit more of an advantage in the comparison to Moyes since he'd been left with a fairly solid unit in an Allardyce team and just needed to add a couple of attackers (which he did in Payet and Lanzini) and they were set. Moyes kind of inherited them in a bit of a struggle and had things a tad tougher initially too, they were throwing goals away regularly at the end of Bilic's reign.

I worry a wee bit about Bilic as I'm starting to think that his successful reign has usually been with teams who have had relatively super powered attacks but I think both Bilic or Moyes would signify a significant step up.

Moyes is uninspiring but I'm starting to think he could be an astute choice. His chaotic season at Man Utd was always going to be really tough with the director of football leaving too so I do think it's understandable that he had a tough time adapting there (and they've not settled since). At Sociedad, a fair few key players had been moved on just before he arrived and he actually finished the season OK and lifted their form. The next summer, he started off poorly but he had to shop quite cheaply and whilst it didn't work out for him, a few of the signings he made turned out to be good long-term. Actual Sociedad fans blamed the board and ownership situation much more.

Sunderland, the season before under Advocaat, had spent £40 million and signed some players on really big wages (that were still around at the time of the Sunderland documentary) - a couple of previous seasons flops were still there and had been loaned out. Allardyce did a brilliant job and narrowly kept them up by two points. When he left and Moyes come in, the caliber and quantity of signings being made was much lower and mostly teams cast offs, nowhere near the same scale as previous seasons. It's very easy to say he could have done better but the squad he inherited was utter garbage and the problems at that club were made well before he arrived, he's not responsible for the problems they have right now.

He's not perfect but Moyes is a good manager and demonstrated relatively recently that he's still competent. His Everton job was very impressive and he made a side with true longevity near that top 4 with a middle income budget. Everton spent the season after him gloating about how they'd created this lovely new style of play with Marinez etc but a few years later they really started to struggle trying to build a new team and have went from ranking in the bottom 5 in the league in net spending consistently (being near neutral) to the top 5 - it's scary how much money they've thrown down the drain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Anyone who thinks Moyes wouldn't be an improvement on our last few managers is at it.

He's a an improvement on Strachan and McLeish, of course, but that really isn't saying much.

As long as it isn't the racist or Gemmill, I'll not be too bothered, but it'll be a missed opportunity imo if we can't get Clarke. 

Edited by DAFC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

He then had a go in Spain and didn't do too badly IMO. Yes he was sacked but managers are punted all the time over there.

Managers are sacked all the time over here as well, usually for being shite. He seems to have done as expected in his first season then a poor start to the next has cost him his job. He only won 12 of his 42 games in charge, far and away the worst win percentage of his managerial career. That said, I don't totally hate the idea of Moyes and I'd far rather him than Gemmill or McKay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, harry94 said:

What was points per game like?

1.33  (Bilic) vs 1.2 0.85 (Moyes) for West Ham.

I don't think Moyes would be a poor choice necessarily but I'd start with the stats & then weight them however is seen fit before talking about 'good fit for the team' etc. Bilic also has international management experience which Moyes doesn't.

Edited by MixuFixit
Numpty can't do sums

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We probably need to stop thinking in terms of "will this guy get us to a tournament?" and more in terms of "can this guy start sorting out some of our more long-term problems?". There is of course a limit to how much can be fixed by someone in the manager's role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, nsr said:

We probably need to stop thinking in terms of "will this guy get us to a tournament?" and more in terms of "can this guy start sorting out some of our more long-term problems?". There is of course a limit to how much can be fixed by someone in the manager's role.

At the same time though, I think a lot of our long term problems could be solved by getting to a tournament.  It's not the be all and end all, but it's a massive deal in a lot of areas.

Agree though, there's other areas that need to be looked at that aren't the manager.  And whoever comes in is going to need to put a decent team in place around him.

Edited by forameus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to decide if the manager should be part of changing things or if he should focus solely on coaching and managing the national team then work from there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce Arena seems to be getting heavily pushed by the media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

1.33  (Bilic) vs 0.85 (Moyes) for West Ham.

I don't think Moyes would be a poor choice necessarily but I'd start with the stats & then weight them however is seen fit before talking about 'good fit for the team' etc. Bilic also has international management experience which Moyes doesn't.

That's complete rubbish. Moyes took over West Ham on 7 November 2017 - when they had 9 points from 11 games. They finished the season with 42 from 38, so they took 33 points from 27 games under him (about 1.2 per game). I've no idea how you work out that "0.85" figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bruce Arena has never managed outside of the United States.

He'd success with their national team 15-20 years ago and his recent stint included winning the Gold Cup (albeit in workmanlike fashion and without facing Mexico).

However he also took them to 2nd bottom of a 6-team WC qualifying section behind Costa Rica, Panama and Honduras consequently missing-out even on a playoff.

If it was to be a foreign manager then he's a surprise tip, IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said:

Was he not the manager for that delightful showing during USA's last WCQs?

It was Klinsmann at the start. Arena took over after they had started badly and Klinsmann was sacked, but it didn't get any better under him. Failing to qualify with USA in Concacaf is ridiculous. It's arguably worse than one of the big countries failing to qualify in UEFA, because at least in a European group you can have the excuse of having a tough draw or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, morrison1982 said:

That's complete rubbish. Moyes took over West Ham on 7 November 2017 - when they had 9 points from 11 games. They finished the season with 42 from 38, so they took 33 points from 27 games under him (about 1.2 per game). I've no idea how you work out that "0.85" figure.

 

Oh help yes I left out draws. 1.2 is right, so they're a lot closer than I'd initially said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, nsr said:

We probably need to stop thinking in terms of "will this guy get us to a tournament?" and more in terms of "can this guy start sorting out some of our more long-term problems?". There is of course a limit to how much can be fixed by someone in the manager's role.

Nail on the head .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's going to be Moyes and considering some of the other names mentioned I'm OK with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TavTastic said:

It's going to be Moyes and considering some of the other names mentioned I'm OK with that.

I think so too, and he is clearly an upgrade on any manager we've had in the last 32 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...