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Next Scotland Manager


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1 hour ago, RobbieD said:

Your definition of proving people wrong is hilarious.

Do you even have a passport? 

I've spent years abroad actually.  Why do Real Madrid have 87 million more social media fans than Man Utd?  I believe the internet isn't just in the UK.  It's not even close, have you been to South America?  Man Utd are nothing there, Real Madrid are massive.  You're an idiot.

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At present, the only Scottish manager I would like is Steve Clarke, but I'm pretty certain once he's done at Killie, he's away back down south.

So from that end, we need to go foreign. 

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1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

At present, the only Scottish manager I would like is Steve Clarke, but I'm pretty certain once he's done at Killie, he's away back down south.

So from that end, we need to go foreign. 

Yes, but it will never happen. If it's not Clarke then it will be the racist or Moyesie *shudder*

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12 hours ago, Kuro said:

I've spent years abroad actually.  Why do Real Madrid have 87 million more social media fans than Man Utd?  I believe the internet isn't just in the UK.  It's not even close, have you been to South America?  Man Utd are nothing there, Real Madrid are massive.  You're an idiot.

 

12 hours ago, Kuro said:

Barcelona have 76 million more social media fans than Man Utd.  Man Utd aren't even the second biggest club in the world.

This is just brilliant so it is.

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On 4/26/2019 at 12:13, craigkillie said:

This is nonsense from start to finish.

Moyes took over from Gary Peters with Preston sitting in the bottom half of the Second Division (now League 1). He led them to a 5th placed finish and a play-off defeat in his first full season, then won the league at a canter in his second. The next year, he led them to 4th in the First Division (now Championship) and lost in the play-off final. When he left Preston in the March of the following season, they were sitting just outside the play-off places.

When he took over from Walter Smith at Everton, they were only outside the relegation places on goal difference, and had finished in the top half of the table just once in the last 10 years. He kept them up and took them to 7th the following season. He then struggled the following season and only just kept them up, but bounced back from that to lead them to 4th place in the table and a Champions League spot. He was there for a further eight seasons, and finished in the top 6 on another five occasions, only finishing in the bottom half (11th) once.

This why I would absolutely take Moyes and can't see why folk are against him.

After leaving Everton he took over Man United and replaced probably the greatest manager of all time. If I remember rightly, he was only able to sign Marouane Fellaini. Van Gaal and Mourinho have been there since and not fared much better. He then had a go in Spain and didn't do too badly IMO. Yes he was sacked but managers are punted all the time over there. He then went to Sunderland who have been a complete basket case of a club for years. Finally, he went to West Ham with the remit simply being to keep them up which he achieved with relative ease.

Anyone who thinks Moyes wouldn't be an improvement on our last few managers is at it.

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3 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Anyone who thinks Moyes wouldn't be an improvement on our last few managers is at it.

While that's obviously true, there's a fucking massive chasm between "our last few managers" and "actually qualifying for a major tournament".  We need to be making sure that the next appointment isn't just "och, he's better than McLeish" and is actually going to be a marked improvement.

Not to say that Moyes wouldn't be, mind.  Personally I've just always seen it as a meh appointment at best, and something about having him in the role doesn't quite sit right.  To be fair, I thought the same about Strachan when he first came in, and by the end (either the first, second or actual real end) I was ready to defend him.

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I seen yesterday in The Sunday Mail that Bruce Arena is in contention and that Ian Maxwell will take his credentials seriously so, he'd be my foreign choice along with Darren Fletcher as assistant :). 

I still think the only Scottish candidate that can be appointed is Steve Clarke but, I think it's likely to be David Moyes as he was at Celtic v Kilmarnock and Rangers v Aberdeen plus one other at the weekend.  I am not sure if I would be happy with him though because his record is mixed, at PNE and Everton he was very successful, at Utd and Sunderland he was nothing sort of dreadful but, to be fair to him, Sir Alex was a tough act to follow at Utd and Sunderland is a poisoned chalice, even Jack Ross is discovering that just now.  And at Sociedad, I believe he wasn't given enough time to get things right, and finally, at WHU he was average but did keep them up. 

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I think we have  a habit of judging Scottish managers more harshly than foreign ones. Moyes was pish with Man Utd in the same way that Van Gaal or Mourinho were. The way he conducted himself at Everton bodes well for Scotland. He was old school and demanded hard work from his players. He was also highly organised. He would be my first choice. It's fuckin weird that anyone would choose Bilic over him, or even any other foreign choice. 

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8 hours ago, velo army said:

I think we have  a habit of judging Scottish managers more harshly than foreign ones. Moyes was pish with Man Utd in the same way that Van Gaal or Mourinho were. The way he conducted himself at Everton bodes well for Scotland. He was old school and demanded hard work from his players. He was also highly organised. He would be my first choice. It's fuckin weird that anyone would choose Bilic over him, or even any other foreign choice. 

So we have a manager who has actual experience of International management, while at the same time being a nation who has proved that you can't necessarily just put a decent club manager in and get success, and it's "fuckin weird" that anyone would choose Bilic in those circumstances?

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45 minutes ago, forameus said:

So we have a manager who has actual experience of International management, while at the same time being a nation who has proved that you can't necessarily just put a decent club manager in and get success, and it's "fuckin weird" that anyone would choose Bilic in those circumstances?

Aye I was pished when I posted that. I take back the "fuckin weird" bit. One thing I keep forgetting (and others too) is that Moyes has continually distanced himself from the Scotland job.

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20 minutes ago, velo army said:

Aye I was pished when I posted that. I take back the "fuckin weird" bit. One thing I keep forgetting (and others too) is that Moyes has continually distanced himself from the Scotland job.

Ha...fair enough.  To me Moyes always seems to only distance himself just enough to not be linked.  I don't think it'd be his preferred role, he clearly wants a club job, but if his other targets fall through I'd imagine he'd take it.  He's not stupid, he'll never quite come out and say "GIE ME IT" but he also won't say no publicly.

For the avoidance of doubt, he's pretty fucking far up the list of the possible suspects, just not at the top in my own opinion.  We could do far worse.

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45 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Bilic has a better overall win % than Moyes, though neither of them are exactly smelling of roses when you look at their recent form on that front.

 

I suppose the interesting thing is they both managed West Ham in a short spell of time and Bilic won 37% of his games while Moyes won 29%.

What was points per game like? 

The first season Bilic had at West Ham was really good tbf but I think he was probably at a bit more of an advantage in the comparison to Moyes since he'd been left with a fairly solid unit in an Allardyce team and just needed to add a couple of attackers (which he did in Payet and Lanzini) and they were set. Moyes kind of inherited them in a bit of a struggle and had things a tad tougher initially too, they were throwing goals away regularly at the end of Bilic's reign.

I worry a wee bit about Bilic as I'm starting to think that his successful reign has usually been with teams who have had relatively super powered attacks but I think both Bilic or Moyes would signify a significant step up.

Moyes is uninspiring but I'm starting to think he could be an astute choice. His chaotic season at Man Utd was always going to be really tough with the director of football leaving too so I do think it's understandable that he had a tough time adapting there (and they've not settled since). At Sociedad, a fair few key players had been moved on just before he arrived and he actually finished the season OK and lifted their form. The next summer, he started off poorly but he had to shop quite cheaply and whilst it didn't work out for him, a few of the signings he made turned out to be good long-term. Actual Sociedad fans blamed the board and ownership situation much more.

Sunderland, the season before under Advocaat, had spent £40 million and signed some players on really big wages (that were still around at the time of the Sunderland documentary) - a couple of previous seasons flops were still there and had been loaned out. Allardyce did a brilliant job and narrowly kept them up by two points. When he left and Moyes come in, the caliber and quantity of signings being made was much lower and mostly teams cast offs, nowhere near the same scale as previous seasons. It's very easy to say he could have done better but the squad he inherited was utter garbage and the problems at that club were made well before he arrived, he's not responsible for the problems they have right now.

He's not perfect but Moyes is a good manager and demonstrated relatively recently that he's still competent. His Everton job was very impressive and he made a side with true longevity near that top 4 with a middle income budget. Everton spent the season after him gloating about how they'd created this lovely new style of play with Marinez etc but a few years later they really started to struggle trying to build a new team and have went from ranking in the bottom 5 in the league in net spending consistently (being near neutral) to the top 5 - it's scary how much money they've thrown down the drain.

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20 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

Anyone who thinks Moyes wouldn't be an improvement on our last few managers is at it.

He's a an improvement on Strachan and McLeish, of course, but that really isn't saying much.

As long as it isn't the racist or Gemmill, I'll not be too bothered, but it'll be a missed opportunity imo if we can't get Clarke. 

Edited by DAFC.
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20 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

He then had a go in Spain and didn't do too badly IMO. Yes he was sacked but managers are punted all the time over there.

Managers are sacked all the time over here as well, usually for being shite. He seems to have done as expected in his first season then a poor start to the next has cost him his job. He only won 12 of his 42 games in charge, far and away the worst win percentage of his managerial career. That said, I don't totally hate the idea of Moyes and I'd far rather him than Gemmill or McKay.

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We probably need to stop thinking in terms of "will this guy get us to a tournament?" and more in terms of "can this guy start sorting out some of our more long-term problems?". There is of course a limit to how much can be fixed by someone in the manager's role.

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44 minutes ago, nsr said:

We probably need to stop thinking in terms of "will this guy get us to a tournament?" and more in terms of "can this guy start sorting out some of our more long-term problems?". There is of course a limit to how much can be fixed by someone in the manager's role.

At the same time though, I think a lot of our long term problems could be solved by getting to a tournament.  It's not the be all and end all, but it's a massive deal in a lot of areas.

Agree though, there's other areas that need to be looked at that aren't the manager.  And whoever comes in is going to need to put a decent team in place around him.

Edited by forameus
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