Shandon Par Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Sounds like we need more -isms. Everybody's talking about bagism, shagism, dragism, madism, tagism, This-ism, that-ism, ism, ism, ism All we are saying is give peace a chance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, Hillonearth said: New Zealand's a strange one in as much as humans only arrived there pretty late in the day and there was no indigenous population...the Polynesian migrants now known as the Maori only arrived there about 13 or 1400AD, so it's not a case like the aborigines in Australia who have been there for tens of thousands of years. Yep, the Maoris are as much colonists as Europeans in NZ. The difference is that they only had to fight Moa, whereas we had to fight them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 26 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Sounds like we need more -isms. 1 minute ago, Shandon Par said: Everybody's talking about bagism, shagism, dragism, madism, tagism, This-ism, that-ism, ism, ism, ism All we are saying is give peace a chance Jism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: There's mods here to keep us vaguely civil but The red dot warriors are our spree shooters. It does show you though how folk can start reading stuff online and get sucked into very warped behaviour. Edited March 15, 2019 by Shandon Par typo - accidental Americanism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Detournement said: He specifically said it's wrong to equate Islamophobia with racism. Islamophobia is racism, there are no legitimate arguments against that. As I have said he has Henry Jackson links, From the anti terrorist point of view you have to treat Islamophobia differently. Most racists when asked why they hate blacks will say they just do. Islamophobes are likely to come out with all sorts of shite on top of their standard racism, and are more likely to be getting their info from extremist sources. Describing Islamophobia from the counterterrorist perspective is not the same as an Islamophobe claiming not to be a racist because Islam isn't a race. Edited March 15, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandon Par Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, MixuFixit said: The thing that I find most morbidly interesting is that places like 4chan originally had more of an anti racist vibe but with folk saying outrageous things to be edgy. At some time an inflection point was passed where they started to really mean it, leading to guys being radicalised. I've never seen or heard anything by Alex Jones but listening to Jon Ronson talk about him it sounds like he just started as an inquisitive, anti-authoritarian with no racism or extremism. In some ways the internet has really just the replaced the right-wing tabloids. Certainty, ego and absolute belief in taking a black or white stance seems to be the way of internet debate too and it's not healthy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 28 minutes ago, coprolite said: Yep, the Maoris are as much colonists as Europeans in NZ. The difference is that they only had to fight Moa, whereas we had to fight them. Did the Maori establish colonies? Who did they colonise? There is a clear difference between natural patterns of human migration and industrial colonialism by imperial powers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7C Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 4 hours ago, johnthebaptistist said: And that's what religion does for the world. Nothing really to do with right/ left wing politics Em... No. It's everything to do right wing politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Every so often you read something on P&B that has Trumpian levels of stupidity. The suggestion earlier that New Zealand wouldn’t exist had it not been for immigrants falls squarely into that category. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Every so often you read something on P&B that has Trumpian levels of stupidity. The suggestion earlier that New Zealand wouldn’t exist had it not been for immigrants falls squarely into that category. New Zealand is a political construct created by Europeans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7C Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 (edited) It's fairly easy to understand what Detournement is getting at and those disputing it are just doing so for the sake of an argument. Physically it would be the same, but it wouldn't be the New Zealand as we know it. Much in the same way that the US wouldn't be what it is without British / French colonialism and South American countries without the Spanish. It would be unrecognisable culturally, politically and from a development perspective. So yes, New Zealand wouldn't exist without immigration. Edited March 15, 2019 by S7C 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, S7C said: It's fairly easy to understand what Detournement is getting at and those disputing it are just doing so for the sake of an argument. Physically it would be the same, but it wouldn't be the New Zealand as we know it. Much in the same way that the US wouldn't be what it is without British / French colonialism and South American countries without the Spanish. It would be unrecognisable culturally and developmentally. So yes, New Zealand wouldn't exist without immigration. And Oldham without Pakistanis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: And Oldham without Pakistanis. Reported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guts Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Dindeleux said: I also knew a couple of people with these types of video and I think a lot of it was just down to the shock factor of no one having ever really seen this type of thing before. I remember at about 15 being in a house where a tape titled “banned in America” was on. It was all shootings, beheadings, sharia law punishments etc. I couldn’t take my eyes off it. However a few days later the tape was played again and I couldn’t watch 5 seconds of it. It was as if my brain was forcing me to ignore it. Horrific. Yes. I had a very similar situation when I was maybe 16 a few uf us up a pals and someone had mentioned a horrible video (from Eastern European amy/conflict/atrocity). I remember walking home later and feeling physically sick at what I'd seen. The other boys were also quite sickened, boy who showed it though was unfazed, didn't care. Could never understand and the total lack of emotion or sympathy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, Detournement said: Did the Maori establish colonies? Who did they colonise? There is a clear difference between natural patterns of human migration and industrial colonialism by imperial powers. Yes. They settled in NZ. In villages. People don't get colonised, land does. There is no bright line. Apart from the original pioneers, anybody migrating has migrated into someone else's patch. One or other dominates. The difference is basically technology, which includes organisation structures. Industrial colonialism was just more efficient than mercantalist, mongol, inca, roman, Persian, sumerian etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Should places like 8chan/4chan be heavily moderated and “policed”, or even shut down? Or would that just add fuel to the fire and galvanise these individuals? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Angusfifer said: Checked out Facebook to see how many profile pics have been changed to NZ flags. None apparently. There must be something different in this incident from the recent terrorist attacks in Belguim and France. Can't quite put my finger on it... Too far away IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Some of the 8chan chat explained. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/15/shitposting-inspirational-terrorism-and-the-christchurch-mosque-massacre/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Reported. Grass 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 There seems to be a lot of similarities between many of these kind of freaks and fruitcakes and the islamists and, the incels. They are all groups where there is some kind of cathartic appeal of the spectacle of atrocity violence. They whip themselves into some kind of frenzy in their heads in which the act of carrying out an atrocity will "open the eyes " of the many who do not agree with them. Its not even all that new, the anarchists had a theory called "propaganda of the deed" where the act of violence would inspire others to revolution and Frantz Fanon (who used to be very influential in the far left) espoused theories that violence was necessary to decolonize peoples minds. But the modern ones all seem to sit in their basements, indulging in online vicarious psychodramas of violence and its promise of some kind of revolution that will lift the burden of modern life and its complexities. The r/incels have gone on murder sprees convinced there will be some kind of beta revolution where the beta males get to shag the hot birds if they drive cars through crowds of women (this is a real belief some of them have). The islamsists seem to think running around London Bridge or somewhere with a knife will inspire others to rise up and install a calaphate in the UK. The white nationalists seem to think that by killing some people in a church or a mosque then all the other white people will suddenly realise they are in the middle of a "white genocide" and fight against the "Zionist Occupation Government" or whatever the latest conspiracy theory is organizing the replacement of white people by who ever. All of them also seem to find the modern world with its changing ethnic, gender and social mores threatening to themselves. They all seem to struggle to deal with the complexities of the modern world. Its ironic that groups that so completely despise each other seem to have so much in common. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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