Dons_1988 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 I have a little chuckle to myself every time I hear about Bloody Sunday. I can’t decide whether or not I’m Alan partridge has had a positive effect on my life or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenconner Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 8 hours ago, MixuFixit said: I'm almost impressed at the ambition involved in trying to make Bloody Sunday an SNPbad thing. Or is it just the SNP being pro the “Jocks” to the slightly ridiculous level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Incredible it's taken 47 years to bring some of these soldiers to book for this horror show. One, soldier F, will now be charged with 2 murders and 4 attempted murders. What does the F stand for? Fuckwit?https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/prisoner-releases-under-agreement-a-moral-hazard-says-lionel-shriver-37919107.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 This could get a bit fraught. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/bloody-sunday/bloody-sunday-veterans-plan-mass-rally-in-derry-against-pps-decision-37915221.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Skidmarks Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Those protestants, up to no good as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/prisoner-releases-under-agreement-a-moral-hazard-says-lionel-shriver-37919107.html Alternatively... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/bloody-sunday-derry-top-brass-one-soldier-charged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 29 minutes ago, welshbairn said: This could get a bit fraught. https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/bloody-sunday/bloody-sunday-veterans-plan-mass-rally-in-derry-against-pps-decision-37915221.html Wow. What a horrible c**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybhoy Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 23 hours ago, Shandon Par said: Eurovision? That Johnny Logan is some chanter sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 This could get a bit fraught.https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/bloody-sunday/bloody-sunday-veterans-plan-mass-rally-in-derry-against-pps-decision-37915221.htmlBe quite ironic if it was bombed tbh Seriously though, there's nae danger it's going ahead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Alternatively...https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/bloody-sunday-derry-top-brass-one-soldier-chargedIndeed, ONE young low ranking soldier to be charged from the mayhem and catastrophic consequences of that day 47 years ago. Who knows what was going through the mind of Soldier F, or what pressure he was under and what orders he might have been following? Did he just lose control and panic or did he deliberately open fire on stone throwing protesters amidst the intense rioting that afternoon? Did he truthfully and purposefully take aim at unarmed non-combatants? Was he deliberately guided in the submission of his evidence and the justification of opening fire? We don’t know, and probably never will. But so long as some ‘Fuckwit’ (your unhelpful suggestion) carries the can it will suffice. The families demand justice, but this isn’t it by some distance, not for the protagonists on either side of those actually involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: Indeed, ONE young low ranking soldier to be charged from the mayhem and catastrophic consequences of that day 47 years ago. Who knows what was going through the mind of Soldier F, or what pressure he was under and what orders he might have been following? Did he just lose control and panic or did he deliberately open fire on stone throwing protesters amidst the intense rioting that afternoon? Did he truthfully and purposefully take aim at unarmed non-combatants? Was he deliberately guided in the submission of his evidence and the justification of opening fire? We don’t know, and probably never will. But so long as some ‘Fuckwit’ (your unhelpful suggestion) carries the can it will suffice. The families demand justice, but this isn’t it by some distance, not for the protagonists on either side of those actually involved. From the chat here some of the officers at least were giving tacit permission if not orders. On 15/03/2019 at 10:03, muirkirk nil said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 16, 2019 Author Share Posted March 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: We don’t know, and probably never will. But so long as some ‘Fuckwit’ (your unhelpful suggestion) carries the can it will suffice. The families demand justice, but this isn’t it by some distance, not for the protagonists on either side of those actually involved. I'm not going to apologise for "fuckwit". I've been unlucky enough to know a couple of guys who did a stint in the army. These guys had something in common - a fascination for guns. Perhaps this particular fuckwit, who has been singled out, was maybe just curious to find out what it felt like to kill someone - better still, someone, or some people, who were unarmed and posing no threat to anyone. Like you say we'll probably never know the truth, but if those who carried out the shootings did so without instruction, or even orders, you would have thought they might have been disciplined or even court martialed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Despite the misgivings of some into certain parts of the report, the Saville enquiry was pretty clear in where the overall responsibility should lie, it wasn’t on the shoulders of one single squaddie sent in to quell a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 For starts for those commenting on it try looking at it from a few angles, IRA hid behind innocent civilians whilst carrying out attacks against the British Army. Martin McGuiness was one of the IRA commanders that was active during that time. You have a crowd of people in a protest out of that crowd you have a few IRA gunmen open fire on troops, Troops return fire however innocents get caught up in the cross fire. There are rules for engagement however not sure how far or how it was during the early 70s. Another point to note regardless of how you feel about it Blairs good friday agreement Pardoned all those IRA members for the crimes they commited Omagh, Enniskilling, Warrington etc and said those pardon were to draw a line under it yet we are prosecuting troops who the Govt sent in there in the first place by their bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, AL-FFC said: For starts for those commenting on it try looking at it from a few angles, IRA hid behind innocent civilians whilst carrying out attacks against the British Army. Martin McGuiness was one of the IRA commanders that was active during that time. You have a crowd of people in a protest out of that crowd you have a few IRA gunmen open fire on troops, Troops return fire however innocents get caught up in the cross fire. There are rules for engagement however not sure how far or how it was during the early 70s. Another point to note regardless of how you feel about it Blairs good friday agreement Pardoned all those IRA members for the crimes they commited Omagh, Enniskilling, Warrington etc and said those pardon were to draw a line under it yet we are prosecuting troops who the Govt sent in there in the first place by their bidding. Quote The Saville Report concluded that all of those shot were unarmed and that none were posing a serious threat. It also concluded that none of the soldiers fired in response to attacks, or threatened attacks, by gunmen or bomb-throwers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) I have my own opinions on Para's and they don't help themselve's whilst i acknowledge the Saville enquiry etc which was carried out anyone knows that any Govt enquiry is to find someone to blame or at fault. Main point is if the price of peace is to pardon all those who committed atrocities in the name of the IRA to "draw a line under it" and move on then why are old wounds being reopened cause all it is going to do is start creating divisions again. If the cause of this is no one was brought to justice then what does that say for the families of the bereaved who lost loved ones to IRA killings oh you got justice but he only got 6 months then a full government pardon but its ok you can move on from that as that's the price of peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: Lot of befehl ist befehl creeping in to the chat today. Doesn't excuse the squaddies but if there were officers ordering or condoning it, they should be in the dock too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Just now, MixuFixit said: Are any of the officers still alive? Probably the junior ones at least, soldier F is 75 I think. The officer in charge of the Battalion is still alive and living in Belgium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Wilford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I'm generally on the "left wing", anti-colonial side (apologies for such a blunt description) - but I really don't see how this one soldier should be hung out to dry in this instance. This was the British establishment at it's absolute worst, but the point about good Friday pardons is a legitimate one. This is a very, very complex issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Probably the junior ones at least, soldier F is 75 I think. The officer in charge of the Battalion is still alive and living in Belgium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Wilford He's getting on a bit. Sounds a bit sorry for himself but he's got a cheek saying Bloody Sunday destroyed his world. I can understand British soldiers being held to a higher standard than terrorists, but if the Good Friday agreement was supposed to draw a line under blowing up pubs, doing a squaddie for murder 50 years after the event should have been dropped too, an apology, no pension and stripped of any medals would do imo. Of course if I was related to a victim I'd think differently. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-47563115/bloody-sunday-commander-we-thought-we-were-under-attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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