24 Hours in Police Custody

[SANTAN]

I'm onto the second episode of the BBC one. The part where the police seem surprised that the original drug user forced into setting up the dealer getting shot hasn't disclosed the names of the shooters is certainly strange.. saying that he's obviously lied to them, no shit...

[SANTAN]

On 31/03/2021 at 15:49, ICTChris said:

The episode on Monday was pretty startling and ultimately sad.  The suspect, Justice McGee, went on a drug fuelled rampage through Luton, threatening people with a gun and eventually shooting someone in the chest compledtely at random.  They didn't die but were seriously injured.  Eventually the police identified Justice and he was nicked and plead guilty for an 18 year sentence.  At the end they read out some history, he was identified as being neglected/physically abused at four, at eight he was taking drugs and was in the court system at 13.  What chance for a normal life does someone have in those circumstances?  Justice had a couple of kids who were there when his flat was raided by armed police, who walked out with bags upon bags of weed that their father was dealing - the cycle begins again.

There is also a related good show on BBC2 last night, about detectives workign against organised crime in Manchester.  Last night saw them deal with the murder of a drug dealer, shot dead in the street in Gorton.  Really, really grim stuff.  THe leader of the gang had a tattoo of a hand grenade in tribute to Dale Cregan, who murdered two police officers in Manchester several years ago.  The CCTV of the scene showed children who'd been playing in the street running away from the gunshots.  Seeing the work that went into catching the killers was interesting, the number of CCTV cameras in the area seemed to be massive.

So I've just finished watching the second episode. 

The one part that doesn't make sense to me is that it was obviously a planned murder what with the mobile phones being passed about and taken away from the scene in the hours leading up to it but how did they know the victim was going to be at the house, unless I've missed something the timeline starts with the victim selling a random drugs and then within minutes the gang are in the house and ordering the drug user to phone the dealer back to execute him, so surely the drug user must have been in on it to begin with unless the gang had people scouting the streets for this target and if that's the case then those scouts are very good at their job considering how quickly they seemed to respond to the initial drug deal.

[parsforlife]

3 minutes ago, Stormzy said:

So I've just finished watching the second episode. 

The one part that doesn't make sense to me is that it was obviously a planned murder what with the mobile phones being passed about and taken away from the scene in the hours leading up to it but how did they know the victim was going to be at the house, unless I've missed something the timeline starts with the victim selling a random drugs and then within minutes the gang are in the house and ordering the drug user to phone the dealer back to execute him, so surely the drug user must have been in on it to begin with unless the gang had people scouting the streets for this target and if that's the case then those scouts are very good at their job considering how quickly they seemed to respond to the initial drug deal.

I think the drug dealers and users in the area would have been very aware of who each other are.  I think they would be keen to know when rivals are in the area.

The killers might not have known a deal had just been done to that user when they turned up,  but I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think they are aware the victim is nearby and gone to user they know looking to use them as bait.

[SANTAN]

13 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I think the drug dealers and users in the area would have been very aware of who each other are.  I think they would be keen to know when rivals are in the area.

The killers might not have known a deal had just been done to that user when they turned up,  but I don’t think it’s unrealistic to think they are aware the victim is nearby and gone to user they know looking to use them as bait.

That's plausible but their response time was frighteningly impressive and it seems a big coincidence that the user they go to check on happens to be the same one who had just bought from the victim. 

My theory is the drug user was in on it fully, the gang approached his house tooled up without their mobiles and with ballys at the ready already so they must have been awaiting the news, hence the fact the main man left the gym hours earlier and they all met up and swapped phones well before the shooting, it would also add up to why the drug user fled the area after the incident and also would explain the contradiction with him saying they were wearing the ballys when the cctv shows them entering the house without them. 

Your honour I suggest the "intimidation" of the user was actually an act and he was part of the set up. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Stormzy

[parsforlife]

Just now, Stormzy said:

That's plausible but their response time was frighteningly impressive and it seems a big coincidence that the user they go to check on happens to be the same one who had just bought from the victim. 

My theory is the drug user was in on it fully, the gang approached his house tooled up without their mobiles and with ballys on already so they must have been awaiting the news, hence the fact the main man left the gym hours earlier and they all met up and swapped phones well before the shooting, it would also add up to why the drug user fled the area after the incident and also would explain the contradiction with him saying they were wearing the ballys when the cctv shows them entering the house without them. 

Your honour I suggest the "intimidation" of the user was actually an act and he was part of the set up. 

On the initial point.   I really don’t think the fact they’ve just sold to him is that important, IMO it actually makes the murder harder than if he had got back in touch a few hours later.  There could have been a red flag to the victim ‘wait we’ve just sold to them’

The user fleeing makes perfect sense.   The contradiction(or deliberate lie) is easily explained by not wanting to snitch. 

I think we also need to massively need to consider how easily addicts can be manipulated,  I’m not sure if that makes him less or more guilty tho.

I think the police didn’t see him as a threat to society as a whole,  had they suspected he was acting with the gang joint enterprise would have come in just by making the phone call. 

[SANTAN]

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

On the initial point.   I really don’t think the fact they’ve just sold to him is that important, IMO it actually makes the murder harder than if he had got back in touch a few hours later.  There could have been a red flag to the victim ‘wait we’ve just sold to them’

The user fleeing makes perfect sense.   The contradiction(or deliberate lie) is easily explained by not wanting to snitch. 

I think we also need to massively need to consider how easily addicts can be manipulated,  I’m not sure if that makes him less or more guilty tho.

I think the police didn’t see him as a threat to society as a whole,  had they suspected he was acting with the gang joint enterprise would have come in just by making the phone call. 

So what do you think the most likely version of events was to explain how they were preparing hours in advance, were they always going to go to the area tooled up and just check in on the local nittys to get one of them to phone the victim? 

I don't doubt the idea the user wouldn't want to snitch and I'm not discrediting that, more potentially adding to it, it would better explain the bally contradiction if they weren't actually coming to threaten him. 

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, Stormzy said:

So what do you think the most likely version of events was to explain how they were preparing hours in advance, were they always going to go to the area tooled up and just check in on the local nittys to get one of them to phone the victim? 

I don't doubt the idea the user wouldn't want to snitch and I'm not discrediting that, more potentially adding to it, it would better explain the bally contradiction if they weren't actually coming to threaten him. 

I think the initial preparations (where to meet,  who takes the phones, who does the murder etc) would have been done well in advance,  I think the plan getting kicked into action would have happened once they were aware the victim was in an area they could carry out that plan. 

The fact the balaclavas weren’t on when they turned up is interesting tho. I guess if the plan was to threaten him they would have turned up Balaclavas on, tooled up and storming into the house.  Tho possibly they didn’t want to create too much chaos before the cops turned up.

IMO if I was a dealer wanting an addict to do something relatively simple like make a phone call I’d think the offer of drugs would have more success and be simpler than to threaten them.

[SANTAN]

2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

I think the initial preparations (where to meet,  who takes the phones, who does the murder etc) would have been done well in advance,  I think the plan getting kicked into action would have happened once they were aware the victim was in an area they could carry out that plan. 

The fact the balaclavas weren’t on when they turned up is interesting tho. I guess if the plan was to threaten him they would have turned up Balaclavas on, tooled up and storming into the house.  Tho possibly they didn’t want to create too much chaos before the cops turned up.

IMO if I was a dealer wanting an addict to do something relatively simple like make a phone call I’d think the offer of drugs would have more success and be simpler than to threaten them.

That all makes sense to me I think what's confused me is just the lack of detail (I might have missed it) in the timeline, my impression was that from the dealer leaving to coming back was only about 20 minutes and that the shooter left the gym and went to drop off the phones and prepare which i presumed would have taken a couple of hours so of course they would have to know in advance, a detailed timeline would clear all this up as it's of course possible due to the preparation practically being done that it wouldn't have taken as long as I initially thought. 

[jimmy boo]

Was pleasently surprised to hear the main mans sentence...........get that one right up ye

[pub car king]

In terms of sentencing in English courts it's an automatic 3rd off if they go guilty and avoid the cost and effort of a trial. So young Justice there was looking at 30+ years.

[DrewDon]

Whilst there was absolutely no excusing McCann's actions, I just found the latest episode to be extremely sad for all concerned. 

[DrewDon]

I also watched the first episode of the aforementioned 'The Detectives' on BBC. Was that 'normal' solicitor behaviour during the interview? 

[jimmy boo]

I also watched the first episode of the aforementioned 'The Detectives' on BBC. Was that 'normal' solicitor behaviour during the interview? 

The female? I thought she came across very unprofessional.

[DrewDon]

11 minutes ago, jimmy boo said:

The female? I thought she came across very unprofessional.

Aye. Could barely believe what I was watching when she started giggling away with him. 

[FuzzyBear]

Jeez that was a strange one tonight. Must be horrific to be in that much fear.

[SANTAN]

15 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:

Jeez that was a strange one tonight. Must be horrific to be in that much fear.

I've just finished it now. It's proper crazy. I can't even begin to imagine what that would be like. 

[FuzzyBear]

4 hours ago, Stormzy said:

I've just finished it now. It's proper crazy. I can't even begin to imagine what that would be like. 

And through it all he kept himself clean, well shaven and reasonably well dressed !!

[FuzzyBear]

I never get angry at the TV but16 fvcking months for killing someone. Scandalous sentence.

[Bert Raccoon]

9 hours ago, FuzzyBear said:

I never get angry at the TV but16 fvcking months for killing someone. Scandalous sentence.

Was quite disgusted at that tbh

[scottsdad]

Watching it last night:

First 40 minutes: standard episode. 

Last 20 minutes: Oh no. Hope that copper nails the woman to the fucking wall for this. Poor guy. Go on, copper!

Last 30 seconds: ARE YOU KIDDING ME??