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Policing at Football whitewash


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Last year following the crush at the Old Firm game at Celtic park there was an outcry about policing and safety standards at football stadiums.

The report is out today and it looks like a whitewash. Police Report (PDF)

There isn't even a mention of the incident at Celtic Park.

Mostly it is a load of police bollocks where they try to justify their own actions in terms of how they treat football fans. The examples in the report are scattered, do not contain any real data. It is basically a series of anecdotes. It is also concerned with how much money the police should be getting for doing their jobs.

Of course you won't here any of this criticism in the media.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47459485

'Significant' stadium safety risk for fans, says policing review

by Chris McLaughlin.

Of course what Chris McLaughlin does not do is either link directly to the report or disclose that he participated as part of a media panel.

SxavkWu.png

What the media has to do as a stakeholder in policing and safety I have no idea.

Mclaughlin even has the brass neck to include this in his report

Quote

Speculation arose regarding a gate having been closed on Janefield Street and contributing to the congestion.

Police insisted, according to their understanding, the gate was open at all times but would have the issue included in the review.

The fact that it isn't included in the review makes it seem like he didn't even read the report.

Edited by Jim McLean's Ghost
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An excellent piece on the subject by FAC, no doubt many on here will rubbish it because it's mainly Celtic fans behind it and won't see the bigger picture, oh and im in this as well giving my experience of the crush at Celtic Park last September, handsome devil that I am.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

An excellent piece on the subject by FAC, no doubt many on here will rubbish it because it's mainly Celtic fans behind it and won't see the bigger picture, oh and im in this as well giving my experience of the crush at Celtic Park last September, handsome devil that I am.

 

 

I don't pay much attention to FAC as that bint Jeanette Findlay plays a major role in it and you can be rest assured had it been Rangers fans involved in the crush then she wouldn't care less.

She's lied in the past about bigotry from Killie support (amongst others) which I find baffling from somebody who is so keen for football fans not to be pigeonholed and seems to airbrush the bigotry out of Celtic's songbook (calling everyone and anyone an *********** isn't bigoted seemingly) so her credibility is zero in my book.

Same with that weasel Kelly.

Edited by Squirrelhumper
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41 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

no doubt many on here will rubbish it because it's mainly Celtic fans behind it and won't see the bigger picture 

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't pay much attention to FAC as that bint Jeanette Findlay plays a major role in it and you can be rest assured had it been Rangers fans involved in the crush then she wouldn't care less.

She's lied in the past about bigotry from Killie support (amongst others) which I find baffling from somebody who is so keen for football fans not to be pigeonholed and seems to airbrush the bigotry out of Celtic's songbook (calling everyone and anyone an *********** isn't bigoted seemingly) so her credibility is zero in my book.

Same with that weasel Kelly.

Yeah......

Edited by Flybhoy
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12 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't pay much attention to FAC as that bint Jeanette Findlay plays a major role in it and you can be rest assured had it been Rangers fans involved in the crush then she wouldn't care less.

She's lied in the past about bigotry from Killie support (amongst others) which I find baffling from somebody who is so keen for football fans not to be pigeonholed and seems to airbrush the bigotry out of Celtic's songbook (calling everyone and anyone an *********** isn't bigoted seemingly) so her credibility is zero in my book.

Same with that weasel Kelly.

The merits of FAC and some of the people involved isn't really the issue here. And that video linked by Flybhoy is almost completely about the incident at Celtic Park.

It highlights the current strategy of policing in scottish football is for the police to stand back and watch. They very rarely take action in the moment. Whether that is watching a crush happen or idiots throwing coins or bottles or lighting flares.

The police are an absolute shower. In the report they congratulate themselves for their handling of Rangers europa league fixture vs Spartak Moscow but don't mention that the large police presence was in response to 2 Croatian fans being stabbed and a riot breaking out at the previous Rangers european fixture.

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Here is another example in the report

Quote

Case Study – Pitchin’ In
The ‘Pitchin’ In’ programme was conceived following an incident of youth disorder associated with the Hamilton v. Motherwell fixture in September 2014. Following the incident, a number of youths were identified and arrested but there was no further action taken via the criminal justice system in respect of their actions. This left these young people with neither sanction nor guidance in relation to engaging in disorder.

Now the police do not accept the people they arrested were innocent and the arrests were improper. There isn't even a questioning of whether the police were in the wrong to arrest these youths in the first place.

BTW most of these arrests happened after the game with police showing up at folks doors. So they were not made to keep public order.

Edited by Jim McLean's Ghost
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From the BBC article, I found this quote slightly ominous:

Quote

Such a review also opens up the potential to extend licensing arrangements to consider the community impact, travel plans and fan behaviour beyond the footprint of the stadia.

While I have no real issues with holding clubs responsible for their supporters when they are in and around the ground, the idea that clubs are potentially responsible for anyone that looks like a supporter (ie - in club colours but might not be going to the game) in towns and on public transport, etc is a step waay too far). The police already have untrammelled power in stuff like dictating kick off times, etc - it would be a worry if they went further still. It also has echoes of OBFA, which served to treat football fans in an arbitrary manner.

On the main subject - I'm instantly suspicious of any organisation that investigates themselves in this way - it renders the findings pretty meaningless and if people got the impression that it was an arse-covering exercise after the Celtic crush, you could hardly blame them....

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52 minutes ago, Flybhoy said:

An excellent piece on the subject by FAC, no doubt many on here will rubbish it because it's mainly Celtic fans behind it and won't see the bigger picture, oh and im in this as well giving my experience of the crush at Celtic Park last September, handsome devil that I am.

 

 

I can certainly see past the fact that it was produced by Celtic fans.

I mentioned separately on the Offensive Behaviour thread that Police and Stewards need a good serious look.

Stewards are utterly useless, and only there to fulfil stadium licencing obligations - and the away stewards that Celtic (for example) bring are only there so that Lawell et al can say "we are self policing" if challenged.

As for the Police? I am afraid that they generally treat supporters as scum as a start point and as has been noted in the film, have clearly lied about the timing of the crush at Parkhead - not that they dont have form for this. 

As for the BBC reporting, I was kinda surprised to see McLaughlins name there as his reporting of it yesterday didnt say diddly squat.

 

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14 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

It highlights the current strategy of policing in scottish football is for the police to stand back and watch.

I've always seen it as a two-tier approach that is inherently unfair. The police (and even more so, Stewards) will stand and watch stuff when faced with a big OF support that would have them wading into smaller crowds in no time. Anyone that was at the Morton-'Well league cup tie at the end of Barraclough's time when there were riot vans and police horses due to a minor incident will attest to that. 

The standing back with their arms folded, hoping that they can lift people retrospectively is one of the things that gives OF supports a feeling of invincibility. They can act with impunity in the stadium with only a microscopic chance of getting charged at some point in the future...

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3 minutes ago, Swello said:

I've always seen it as a two-tier approach that is inherently unfair. The police (and even more so, Stewards) will stand and watch stuff when faced with a big OF support that would have them wading into smaller crowds in no time. Anyone that was at the Morton-'Well league cup tie at the end of Barraclough's time when there were riot vans and police horses due to a minor incident will attest to that.

Aye, that was a grim overreaction. I was quite near a gate at that point and the number of plain clothes police that ran by me was ridiculous.

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3 minutes ago, Swello said:

 

The standing back with their arms folded, hoping that they can lift people retrospectively is one of the things that gives OF supports a feeling of invincibility. They can act with impunity in the stadium with only a microscopic chance of getting charged at some point in the future...

This is where I have an issue.

The OF away supports get away with murder, as can be seen with the recent games at RP and Pittodrie where seats were ripped out, flares thrown etc. It's mob rule and the police aren't interested.

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As others have already touched upon, Police Scotland will do absolutely nothing if there are enough of you. That's why they go after the young teams of diddy clubs like Accies and Championship sides who've done hardly anything wrong, instead of actually trying to clamp down on the blue and green elephants in the room.

To be honest, I'm very distrusting of police officers in general, think you have to be wired a certain way to want that kind of power over other people. Only IMO, of course.

Feel a bit for some stewards who are clearly only there to make a bit of pay, but then you have the arsehole ones who seem to take pleasure from telling folk to sit down.

Police and stewards obviously need to be proactive, but they should largely be a background presence until things actually kick off. And it is very rare that things do kick off. The most trouble I can remember at Hibs games in the last decade has been drunk Hibby on drunk Hibby at Hampden days out.

Instead, you have police officers starting matches seemingly convinced that anybody who's standing near a drum is going to turn into a knife-wielding Serbian ultra the second that they turn their back, and police them along those lines.

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I'm just skimming through again for juicy quotes/examples

Quote

Clubs also suggested that, on occasion, police match commanders did not understand the initial primacy of the safety officer. Similarly, there was a lack of clear understanding among the media as to who holds ultimate responsibility for safety. Among safety officers and experienced police commanders there is absolute clarity as to their respective responsibilities, but recent examples have seen the media and supporters direct criticism towards Police Scotland, which should in part, or entirely, have been directed elsewhere.

The report acknowledges that even amongst match commanders they do not know what their role is supposed to be. This is excused with "on occasion" and "experienced police commanders" know what they are supposed to be doing.

Then in the very next sentence the report wants it noted that Police Scotland does not deserve all the criticism it gets. Yes the police are not responsible for searching people for flares and bottles etc but once a criminal act takes place in the stadium (and for a while that did include sectarian singing) it is their responsibility to secure arrests.

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Swello said:

I've always seen it as a two-tier approach that is inherently unfair. The police (and even more so, Stewards) will stand and watch stuff when faced with a big OF support that would have them wading into smaller crowds in no time. Anyone that was at the Morton-'Well league cup tie at the end of Barraclough's time when there were riot vans and police horses due to a minor incident will attest to that. 

The standing back with their arms folded, hoping that they can lift people retrospectively is one of the things that gives OF supports a feeling of invincibility. They can act with impunity in the stadium with only a microscopic chance of getting charged at some point in the future...

I was talking to my old man about that the other day. I mind walking in to work the next day and someone asking what the bother was about as the radio were discussing it as if there was open rioting in the stand. 

The 'trouble' must have been about 5 feet from where I was standing and I wouldn't even have described it as handbags tbh.

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1 hour ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

 

Mostly it is a load of police bollocks where they try to justify their own actions in terms of how they treat football fans. The examples in the report are scattered, do not contain any real data. It is basically a series of anecdotes.

This is the police in general. For every decent copper there's a hundred b*****ds

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

I don't pay much attention to FAC as that bint Jeanette Findlay plays a major role in it and you can be rest assured had it been Rangers fans involved in the crush then she wouldn't care less.

She's lied in the past about bigotry from Killie support (amongst others) which I find baffling from somebody who is so keen for football fans not to be pigeonholed and seems to airbrush the bigotry out of Celtic's songbook (calling everyone and anyone an *********** isn't bigoted seemingly) so her credibility is zero in my book.

Same with that weasel Kelly.

FAC is far too Celticy for anyone to take them serious. Shame really as they can make decent points.

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2 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

I was talking to my old man about that the other day. I mind walking in to work the next day and someone asking what the bother was about as the radio were discussing it as if there was open rioting in the stand. 

The 'trouble' must have been about 5 feet from where I was standing and I wouldn't even have described it as handbags tbh.

The sheer amount of blue flashing lights that arrived fromn the otherside of the stadium was unreal.

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6 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I'm just skimming through again for juicy quotes/examples

The report acknowledges that even amongst match commanders they do not know what their role is supposed to be. This is excused with "on occasion" and "experienced police commanders" know what they are supposed to be doing.

Then in the very next sentence the report wants it noted that Police Scotland does not deserve all the criticism it gets. Yes the police are not responsible for searching people for flares and bottles etc but once a criminal act takes place in the stadium (and for a while that did include sectarian singing) it is their responsibility to secure arrests.

And just to elaborate a bit. If it is the view of Police Scotland that Stewarding and Policing are completely separate roles then why in this photo are they doing the same job?

hibIJRH.png

Surely Police Scotland didn't let an inexperienced police commander be in charge of an old firm game.

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I wonder how many hours were billed against this report.

Quote

Since its inception, Police Scotland has successfully delivered policing at numerous high profile events including the Commonwealth Games 2014, the 2014 Ryder Cup, the European Athletics Championship 2018, the 2017 Scotland v. England football match and the visit of the President of the United States in 2018

Well done.

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