Chicken Wing Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Watching a game through a fence is shite.Tell that to a Cowdenbeath fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Should we have a complete ban on the opposition players celebrating towards a crowd? That just incites the bams. And incites some normally well behaved people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: Hillsborough is a sensitive subject however ( not saying fences are the answer anyway) there SHOULDN'T even be any need for fans to end up on the pitch, modern stadia shouldn't catch fire like Bradford and there shouldn't ever be a crush where the only escape is onto the park. As we now know after more enquires , it wasn't standing terracing that directly caused the crush at hillsborough but that's another issue. All grounds that regularly see big crowds have been completely overhauled since the days of fences. there should now be plenty ways to evacuate the viewing areas ( seated or standing) without the crowd having to spill onto the park Yes it is sensitive and I hope I didn't sound too flippant about it earlier. I'm old enough to remember that day very well and you're right in suggesting there were all sorts of factors. What ultimately killed people though was that the poor devils had nowhere to go when other mistakes were made, because they were caged in by fences at the front. No pitch invasion in the UK, especially the solo ones we've just seen, ever led to that kind of unspeakable horror. All manner of responses to this need examined, but among those that can never ever be considered, must surely be that of again putting in fences like we once had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 That option should be enforced on clubs as part of the strict liability punishments. One thing that recent events such as Falkirk fans swarming onto the pitch at Cappielow and the clown at the Birmingham derby have shown that football stewards are utterly useless right now. It's time that clubs and the security agencies providing them paid more to bring in properly trained and fit staff rather than paying £7.50 an hour to people who couldn't run the length of themselves to deal with a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Ludo*1 said: I'm away to sound like a dick here, but I'm glad that this incident and the one in the Midlands Derby happened today. I'm obviously not condoning it as it's fucking appalling behaviour, but too many people were tarring it as a Scotland problem and how it was only our fans that had a scumball element. This is a football issue. Not a Scottish football issue. (Unless it's sectarian led) And at the Arsenal game today. How did the Hibs fans get tickets for these games? :-) Being serious it's all copycat actions. Will the authorities take it seriously before a player does get hurt and there is then a full scale riot in a ground. Maybe if they every sort out Brexit the UK government might enforce strict liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Be careful what you wish for. Strict liability will be used to make money, it's like police being targeted on number of arrests. Counter productive and will cripple football clubs financially. For me, individuals should be dealt with, but a football club isn't a group identity and shouldn't be treated as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Doakes said: For me, individuals should be dealt with, but a football club isn't a group identity and shouldn't be treated as such. So you're against clubs in Italy, the Balkans etc. being punished for racist chanting as well then? A football club is a private business and is absolutely responsible for the behaviour of the people inside the ground. In the same way that a pub that lets every scheme goblin in to snort lines of coke in the toilet and then start a rammy on the streets outside eventually loses its licence for failing to control the scumbag behaviour of its customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Doakes said: a football club isn't a group identity What is it then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 44 minutes ago, virginton said: So you're against clubs in Italy, the Balkans etc. being punished for racist chanting as well then? A football club is a private business and is absolutely responsible for the behaviour of the people inside the ground. In the same way that a pub that lets every scheme goblin in to snort lines of coke in the toilet and then start a rammy on the streets outside eventually loses its licence for failing to control the scumbag behaviour of its customers. If it's a supporters group within the stadium doing it then aye, it's a club issue. If some numpty comes running on as an individual, they should be treated as an individual. 5 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: What is it then? A stadium full of people? Doubt everyone that goes to watch Shotts is a Shotts fan, could be a group of Rangers or Celtic fans because they ain't playing that day. Could be a stag party on their way to Edinburgh or Glasgow for the night. Do they represent Shotts? And should Shotts be held accountable if they step out of line? Would be making the assumption that everyone in the home end / away end, represents that group identity. Which isn't always the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, Doakes said: If it's a supporters group within the stadium doing it then aye, it's a club issue. If some numpty comes running on as an individual, they should be treated as an individual. A stadium full of people? Doubt everyone that goes to watch Shotts is a Shotts fan, could be a group of Rangers or Celtic fans because they ain't playing that day. Could be a stag party on their way to Edinburgh or Glasgow for the night. Do they represent Shotts? And should Shotts be held accountable if they step out of line? Would be making the assumption that everyone in the home end / away end, represents that group identity. Which isn't always the case. Worst Stag Party Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: Worst Stag Party Ever Not if it was the gala day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 41 minutes ago, Doakes said: If it's a supporters group within the stadium doing it then aye, it's a club issue. If some numpty comes running on as an individual, they should be treated as an individual. A stadium full of people? Doubt everyone that goes to watch Shotts is a Shotts fan, could be a group of Rangers or Celtic fans because they ain't playing that day. Could be a stag party on their way to Edinburgh or Glasgow for the night. Do they represent Shotts? And should Shotts be held accountable if they step out of line? Would be making the assumption that everyone in the home end / away end, represents that group identity. Which isn't always the case. I think we might be at crossed purposes. Clubs must have a group identity otherwise there would be no point in supporting one rather than another. The question is whether that entity should be responsible for misbehaviour within their premises? I think they do, but the collective authorities ie SFA/SPFL have to as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I think we might be at crossed purposes. Clubs must have a group identity otherwise there would be no point in supporting one rather than another. The question is whether that entity should be responsible for misbehaviour within their premises? I think they do, but the collective authorities ie SFA/SPFL have to as well. Yeah I'm more thinking of when they change the laws/rules to hold clubs accountable and fine them for rule breaches. For me, that's taking us in a dangerous direction. Trouble might even get worse if scummy fans knew they could get another club fined by causing havoc in their stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 46 minutes ago, Doakes said: If it's a supporters group within the stadium doing it then aye, it's a club issue. If some numpty comes running on as an individual, they should be treated as an individual. A stadium full of people? Doubt everyone that goes to watch Shotts is a Shotts fan, could be a group of Rangers or Celtic fans because they ain't playing that day. Could be a stag party on their way to Edinburgh or Glasgow for the night. Do they represent Shotts? And should Shotts be held accountable if they step out of line? Would be making the assumption that everyone in the home end / away end, represents that group identity. Which isn't always the case. Any system that would realistically be agreed would take into account exceptions and what efforts the club in question had made. It is fairly standard in disciplinary rules to have a couple of warnings then a detailed look later. To use your example, if the stag do got a bit lairy and the best man ended up barging past stewards to streak across the pitch, Shotts would go unpunished but might get a caution. If there were Rangers or Celtic fans in attendance every other week taking it in turns to do monkey chants then Shotts could and should be punished. Not sure why identity should come into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 minute ago, coprolite said: Any system that would realistically be agreed would take into account exceptions and what efforts the club in question had made. It is fairly standard in disciplinary rules to have a couple of warnings then a detailed look later. To use your example, if the stag do got a bit lairy and the best man ended up barging past stewards to streak across the pitch, Shotts would go unpunished but might get a caution. If there were Rangers or Celtic fans in attendance every other week taking it in turns to do monkey chants then Shotts could and should be punished. Not sure why identity should come into it. If he streaked in Shotts he'd be dead of exposure before he got on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: If he streaked in Shotts he'd be dead of exposure before he got on. Suitable punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Fan encroaches on English pitch and gets a 14 week jail sentence, £350 fine and 10 year ban from every stadium in the UK. Wonder what'll happen to the Hibs fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Fan encroaches on English pitch and gets a 14 week jail sentence, £350 fine and 10 year ban from every stadium in the UK. Wonder what'll happen to the Hibs fan. We already have a Gofundme page up for a statue, if thats what you mean? Spoiler Ho Ho, only kidding........he has been given a life ban from Easter Road, but have to say that English lad was dealt with pretty rapid ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 45 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Fan encroaches on English pitch and gets a 14 week jail sentence, £350 fine and 10 year ban from every stadium in the UK. Wonder what'll happen to the Hibs fan. Taking the ball off tavernier wasn't the problem he had no turn of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 47 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Fan encroaches on English pitch and gets a 14 week jail sentence, £350 fine and 10 year ban from every stadium in the UK. Wonder what'll happen to the Hibs fan. That fan is getting done for assault. Not for encroaching the pitch. Anything that happens to the Hibs fan will be, quite rightly, a lot less than that. Although I'd imagine a substantial ban will be the one big similarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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