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ICTChris

Who Killed Emma?

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The BBC have published a Long Read on the investigation into the murder of Emma Caldwell in 2005.  Emma's body was found in woods in Lanarkshire, she had been strangled.  A number of men were charged with the murder in 2007 after police investigations into a Turkish cafe in Glasgow but the case against the men collapsed.  The long read features allegations about Iain Packer, a client of Emma's and a man who frequently used sex workers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Scotland_Who_Killed_Emma

Such a horrible story, one of a spate of murders of sex workers in Glasgow around that time, IIRC.  The allegations about the cafe are particularly creepy, it makes you wondre what happens behind closed doors in our towns and cities.

What do P&Bers think about this case, one of the most notorious unsolved murders in recent Scottish history?

 

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The dispatches documentary last night I thought was good. Much of the evidence they uncovered and which was known to the police at the time would suggest that Iain Packer is the prime suspect. It also didn't help that he came across as a twitchy, lying c**t when interviewed.

 

Thought that even if he didn't do it he should still be locked up just for being shifty. Sure there's something they could pin on him

 

 

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I didn't realise there had been a Dispatches on the case, I'll have to catch up to it.

Quote

Thought that even if he didn't do it he should still be locked just for being shifty. Sure there's something they could pin on him

I'm sure I've posted on here before but if we just locked up all the people who look like they are no good then a lot of crime would be avoided.  Sure, some innocent people would suffer but omelette, eggs etc.

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Should be on I Player and would recommend.

 

Packer defo guilty going by the evidence presented although you could argue that the evidence is all circumstantial. I don't think there was any DNA or other forensic evidence linking him to the crime.

 

I remember the case at the time only because of the screw up by the police involving the Turkish suspects.

 

 

 

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If I remember correctly the polis used her death as excuse to bug the Turkish cafe, as they thought a major heroin operation was going on there.

That would explain why they didn't want to consider the Packer fella as a suspect, because doing so would remove the flimsy excuse they had for bugging the Turks.

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That boy Packer seems to be the ultimate prime suspect, and incredible that, if true, the Police focused on the guys from the Turkish cafe as they had invested so much time and effort into securing a conviction, rather than look at the most obvious suspect.

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2 hours ago, Dee Man said:

Momo did it. 

I hope that’s not directed at a previous poster who was banned for a flippant comment by a Mod who was up his own arse.

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If I remember correctly the polis used her death as excuse to bug the Turkish cafe, as they thought a major heroin operation was going on there.
That would explain why they didn't want to consider the Packer fella as a suspect, because doing so would remove the flimsy excuse they had for bugging the Turks.
The coffee shop was being used as a knocking shop and Emma was known to go there to meet clients. The owner of the shop had also been convicted of sexual offences back in Turkey. They bugged the shop and claimed that they recorded various customers speaking about the murder and the murderer.

It wasn't until the prosecutor/defence attorneys asked for independent translators to translate the recordings that they realised it was all a load of shite.

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1 minute ago, MuckleMoo said:

The coffee shop was being used as a knocking shop and Emma was known to go there to meet clients. The owner of the shop had also been convicted of sexual offences back in Turkey. They bugged the shop and claimed that they recorded various customers speaking about the murder and the murderer.

It wasn't until the prosecutor/defence attorneys asked for independent translators to translate the recordings that they realised it was all a load of shite.

Yes I know that's what was said in the documentary, but the truth was that they thought they were into a bigger arrest and so didn't bother following up on the other suspect. They didn't really care about the murder of a prostitute as in polis Top Trumps, smashing a drug ring is worth more. Turns out they were massively wrong on all fronts.

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Yes I know that's what was said in the documentary, but the truth was that they thought they were into a bigger arrest and so didn't bother following up on the other suspect. They didn't really care about the murder of a prostitute as in polis Top Trumps, smashing a drug ring is worth more. Turns out they were massively wrong on all fronts.
Ah, got you. Wasn't aware of the drug angle.

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Aye that was the reason all the prossies were hanging about the place. The Turkish boys had them doing all sorts for smack.

Polis thought it was serious amounts, but turned out it wasn't.

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38 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

I hope that’s not directed at a previous poster who was banned for a flippant comment by a Mod who was up his own arse.

You're in luck - it isn't. 

 

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4 hours ago, MuckleMoo said:

Packer defo guilty going by the evidence presented although you could argue that the evidence is all circumstantial. I don't think there was any DNA or other forensic evidence linking him to the crime.

In fairness, you can't read too much into the evidence that a TV programme chooses to show. We don't know what they may have left out, how reliable any of the evidence is, and most of all, nobody got to challenge the evidence for Packer. One way or another it would be good if the guy were tried, so that the issue could be settled in the best place for it.

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It's perhaps a subject for a different thread but it's interesting to see how the polis are so often (outside of television drama) utterly useless. Attention is being drawn to this case, and rightfully so but it makes me wonder just how many other similar fuckups go unreported.

This morning some bed wetter posted a 'Sport Are Men and Women in Blue' type meme on a local Facebook page and immediately received the predictable stack of likes from the uniform fetishists among us. However to my delight, somebody else responded with a list of the high-profile cases our local plod have messed up over the last few years. And dear dOG, there were a lot. Ranging from innocent people being banged up, to crucial evidence being lost, to poorly trained officers allowing minor incidents to turn deadly. And that's just the ones we know about.

Most of us only interact with the police when we're pulled over for some traffic infringement and in my experience, some of them are sound while others are twats of the first water. However when it's something that actually matters, they really do seem to be incompetent more often than not.

Too bad PCCabe no longer posts here. It's at times like this, his behind-the-scenes insight would be invaluable.

Edited by Shotgun

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Iain Packer is likely a wrong'un but that Samantha Poling was desperate to pin it on him the moment she learned of him. Sounds like the Police barely investigated anything that was reported and were set on nailing the Turkish lot for it.

I highly doubt Packer took a couple of officers down to where she was found. More likely that they took him there and got him to say a number of things under immense pressure and duress. 

However, given that the bit about the Turkish turned out to be shite, everything else overwhelmingly suggests it was Packer. 

Not sure whether these types of shows help or hinder chances of a conviction further down the line though.

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In fairness, you can't read too much into the evidence that a TV programme chooses to show. We don't know what they may have left out, how reliable any of the evidence is, and most of all, nobody got to challenge the evidence for Packer. One way or another it would be good if the guy were tried, so that the issue could be settled in the best place for it.
If I remember correctly he did have an alibi for the night of the murder which must have been pretty water tight I assume.

As incompetent as the police were made out to be there must have other reasons they didn't pursue him more vigousley that the viewer wasn't privy too/documentary didn't show. If that isn't the case and it has been just a total cock up of an investigation then heads should roll

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