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The Last Expansion...


FairWeatherFan

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14 minutes ago, CaspianChris said:

This highlighted bit is my next issue I have thoughts on.  I would like to think that any bid to shoehorn any ICT reserve team into the league is rejected and any appeal as well.

I have been opposed to the idea of colt teams OF or otherwise being introduced to League 2 and I will take a similar stance here.

I hope any issue can be resolved to a reasonable degree of satisfaction for all concerned, I doubt everyone will be 100% satisfied with any outcome depending on their view or agenda.

Even if ICT apply, I don't see them getting accepted. It's probably more worth while to the HFL to ride out the year at 17 clubs, see if Cove or Elgin are relegation candidates and if there's any applicants from outside the pyramid.

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18 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

 

I agree it's really disappointing that City folded, but we still have three clubs representing the city at various levels. Ideally, if the astro at Grant Street had gone down, then we'd've had a solution. But money is tight and hard decisions have to be made.

All they are is 6 grand a year down by not extending the Bught Park lease and throwing away the £80,000 City spent developing it.

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3 hours ago, CaspianChris said:

This highlighted bit is my next issue I have thoughts on.  I would like to think that any bid to shoehorn any ICT reserve team into the league is rejected and any appeal as well...

As things stand no reserve teams are allowed in at tier 5 and higher, so the only place ICT could place a reserve team is in the NCL. ICT entry in to the HL would have to be as part of a wider set of rule changes implemented to accommodate colt teams, which is very much on the agenda obviously but unlikely to make it through SPFL and SFA AGMs.

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34 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

As things stand no reserve teams are allowed in at tier 5 and higher, so the only place ICT could place a reserve team is in the NCL. ICT entry in to the HL would have to be as part of a wider set of rule changes implemented to accommodate colt teams, which is very much on the agenda obviously but unlikely to make it through SPFL and SFA AGMs.

While the Lowland League constitution has a clear rule preventing a club having more than one team in a league represented by the Professional Game Board.

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There isn't anything as clear as that in the Highland League to prevent an SFA member putting a team in the league.

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I am almost certain that requirement came from the SFA when the pyramid was being sorted out and the professional game board was set up. Will try to track down a source when I have more time. It's more important to have it stated like that in the LL constitution because teams can get in through automatic promotion rather than by application only as is the case with the HL. For example, Stranraer Reserves won the SoS league this season and would otherwise have been promoted by default when Bonyrigg Rose had their license application denied by the SFA board.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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Surely this is a total non-starter.  As I said in my previous post, there's been talk of a Caley Thistle (and possibly Ross County) reserve team in the HL since 1994 and the league have always been pretty clear that it won't happen.  I don't see how this time will be different.  The league ran for years quite happily with an odd number of teams so it's obviously not an issue.  If they're that desperate they can ask for new applicants.  

I wonder though that what might happen is that they go back to the old system of having an odd number of teams and then having the odd team out that week playing a friendly against the Caley Thistle reserves.  I'd imagine that'd be a happy medium that folk would be more open to.

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I am almost certain that requirement came from the SFA when the pyramid was being sorted out and the professional game board was set up. Will try to track down a source when I have more time. It's more important to have it stated like that in the LL constitution because teams can get in through automatic promotion rather than by application only as is the case with the HL. For example, Stranraer Reserves won the SoS league this season and would otherwise have been promoted by default when Bonyrigg Rose had their license application denied by the SFA board.


So the SPFL won’t be able to admit colts teams then.
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ICT colts wanting to join the HL when the prime campaigner for Colts' son plays for ICT?  Colour me shocked.

It won't, and I hope it never does, happen.

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22 hours ago, welshbairn said:

All they are is 6 grand a year down by not extending the Bught Park lease and throwing away the £80,000 City spent developing it.

There's issues with some kind of covenant on the Bught relating to access rights and buildings. It came up during the new road planning when the council had to get legal advice about who actually owns the Bught and what they can do with it, since it was originally bought by the town council at a knock down price. That's why Lister Park had to be open access outwith matches. I think it would be costly for the council as they need to get legal opinions etc. That's my understanding of the problem.

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17 hours ago, Highland Capital said:

Surely this is a total non-starter.  As I said in my previous post, there's been talk of a Caley Thistle (and possibly Ross County) reserve team in the HL since 1994 and the league have always been pretty clear that it won't happen.  I don't see how this time will be different.  The league ran for years quite happily with an odd number of teams so it's obviously not an issue.  If they're that desperate they can ask for new applicants.  

I wonder though that what might happen is that they go back to the old system of having an odd number of teams and then having the odd team out that week playing a friendly against the Caley Thistle reserves.  I'd imagine that'd be a happy medium that folk would be more open to.

If ICT want their youth players to play at HL level, could they not just loan them out to clubs?

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On the issue of Banks O'Dee, I wonder how much longer will the SFA allow a licenced club to remain outside the Pyramid when they have the option to join the HL.

Petrie said at the EoS meeting that the NRJFA had no interest in linking up with the HL, therefore it raises the question.

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1 hour ago, Cyclizine said:

If ICT want their youth players to play at HL level, could they not just loan them out to clubs?

They can & have & do, but Robertson is moaning that the Development Loan system doesn't work for them, so hence pursuing this option

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On 11/05/2019 at 17:46, Cyclizine said:

Okay then, this isn't my experience at all. There was and is loads to get involved with, if you can be bothered.

The welfare league never shut down, they moved amateur (really another example of the pointless divisions in Scottish football...)

For years, pretty much since the late 1990s, Highland Rugby Club were looking at upgrading Canal Park. They had plans, were applying for funding and when the new road plans surfaces, they jumped on the opportunity. As the only rugby club, with multiple teams at multiple age groups, they had more access to grants and had more sympathy from the council and locals than another football club.

Let's be honest, Inverness at that point had two senior teams and a thriving amateur league. Why would the council plough money into a new football ground for a new club when two already existed (remember the district council had put significant money towards the Caledonian Stadium, back in the day).

I agree it's really disappointing that City folded, but we still have three clubs representing the city at various levels. Ideally, if the astro at Grant Street had gone down, then we'd've had a solution. But money is tight and hard decisions have to be made.

The Inverness league floated between amateur and welfare for a number of years depending on who a certain individual that was on the committee running the league at the time had wound up the previous year.  I can vaguely remember there was something to do with money due to the Scottish Welfare, it wasn't a lot.  But it wasn't the ultimate reason why they moved back to amateur rather than stay welfare.

The last time they moved from amateur to welfare that individual didn't attend the welfare AGM at Hampden.  I was a member of the neighbouring welfare association committee for a few years and the individual from our committee who would normally go, couldn't attend and I attended in their place.  This individual had submitted that many points to be discussed the meeting would of doubled from 3 hours to 6 just to fit them in.  Just found them in may email, 8 pages of points to be discussed.

One thing that was discussed at that meeting was the Inverness leagues reluctance or point blank refusal to use the SFA registration system at the time.  It was agreed that if they weren't going to use the registration system then a league run by that individual wasn't going to be allowed to be a member of the welfare association, they then moved back to amateur the next year and it appears that the amateur association accepted them on the condition that the individual had nothing more to do with running the league.

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3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

On the issue of Banks O'Dee, I wonder how much longer will the SFA allow a licenced club to remain outside the Pyramid when they have the option to join the HL.

Petrie said at the EoS meeting that the NRJFA had no interest in linking up with the HL, therefore it raises the question.

Indeed. The following quote from Rod Houston confirms your point

“Part of that process was for representatives of the Highland League to meet with representatives of the North Region Junior FA to consider the possibility. That meeting took place in Huntly on November 18, last year and in the course of a cordial discussion, the NRJFA officials made it crystal clear that there was no appetite amongst junior clubs to become Tier 6 in the north, as indeed was their right so to do.”

Absolutely no surprise in that. The North Juniors (with one blatant exception) seem content to run for the sake of their committees, players and the two men and a dog worth of spectators.

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1 minute ago, EdTheDuck said:

Indeed. The following quote from Rod Houston confirms your point

“Part of that process was for representatives of the Highland League to meet with representatives of the North Region Junior FA to consider the possibility. That meeting took place in Huntly on November 18, last year and in the course of a cordial discussion, the NRJFA officials made it crystal clear that there was no appetite amongst junior clubs to become Tier 6 in the north, as indeed was their right so to do.”

Absolutely no surprise in that. The North Juniors (with one blatant exception) seem content to run for the sake of their committees, players and the two men and a dog worth of spectators.

In which case, BoD should be provided with the choice of remaining Junior and losing their licence, or joining the HL and retaining it.

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1 minute ago, Burnie_man said:

In which case, BoD should be provided with the choice of remaining Junior and losing their licence, or joining the HL and retaining it.

I'd agree with that.

I'd also suggest that if the NRJFA is simply going to putter away in the background and the HFL is the single league/division for the pyramid up here, the case for an East-West split in the South (in the event the West Juniors come on board) is strengthened. Having 18 clubs in the North playing for one playoff spot and 180 in South playing for one playoff spot isn't too balanced. Even without the West Juniors the North is getting a pretty good deal...

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6 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

I'd agree with that.

I'd also suggest that if the NRJFA is simply going to putter away in the background and the HFL is the single league/division for the pyramid up here, the case for an East-West split in the South (in the event the West Juniors come on board) is strengthened. Having 18 clubs in the North playing for one playoff spot and 180 in South playing for one playoff spot isn't too balanced. Even without the West Juniors the North is getting a pretty good deal...

The time will come that licenced clubs sitting outside the pyramid need to join to keep their licence, once there are leagues for them to join, which basically means the west (Girvan and Glasgow Uni).  BoD have the HL as do Golspie (unless the NCL becomes part of the pyramid).

I agree with a LL split but that isn't going to happen anytime soon, even with West on board.   The LL are talking about a LL2 at tier 6, they may well look at splitting that but it still means LL and HL have equal access at tier 5.

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NRJFA officials made it crystal clear that there was no appetite amongst junior clubs

This might be true.(does anyone know the SJFA vote for pyramid went up north in terms of clubs for/against?) however we’ve seen this routine before by junior officials which leaves me with doubts over the claims.
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2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:


This might be true.(does anyone know the SJFA vote for pyramid went up north in terms of clubs for/against?) however we’ve seen this routine before by junior officials which leaves me with doubts over the claims.

Again, it comes down to the fact that the SFA should be talking to the clubs themselves (eg via a general meeting like they did with the EoS) rather than solely NRJFA officials.  The vote at the SJFA AGM was almost unanimous in seeking entry to the Pyramid, so what has changed?

I've said for long enough that each Junior region needs its own solution (and TJ seems to have abandoned them anyway in PWG negotiations), in the North it could be via voluntary promotion as opposed to mandatory, with the top 3 in the NRJFA Superleague eligible to go up.  Perhaps they need a gentler approach to the Pyramid, the SFA should be seeking solutions, not just shrugging shoulders and saying fine.

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