killiekranky Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: The problem with strict liability is the clubs would lose dosh this is why they won't bring it in. Clubs take care of their own house weeding out the idiots in the away support is the main problem. The problem with stopping this, is the Old Firm would lose dosh ! Next problem is how much do they have to lose before it's worth their while stopping it ? Points deduction hits club and fans and will certainly speed up the weeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, kingjoey said: You are going to be proved wrong about strict liability. It is all that is left for Scottish football. It is high priority this time and it’s not going away. I never, ever thought that Sportscene would be discussing IRA songs, but that’s what happened on Wednesday. Steve Clarke has started a revolution which isn’t going to stop. Not convinced Strict Liability will work. If anything I think it will open up a whole new level of tit for tat shite. Offensiveness is subjective and that will cause problems for anyone who tries to apply this. How do you categorise what level of offensive something is? Are songs about the IRA more offensive than being called a paedo for 90 minutes? Is throwing a coin at a player better or worse than 4000 people singing about some war that took place a century back? Strict liability is good in concept but I fear it would open a pandoras box that makes today's pettyness look positively mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsr Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 31 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: This is already in place. Does it ever get implemented? If Celtic and Sevco had any notion of social responsibility they'd be banning all of these political/religious songs that have hee haw to do with football or the 21st century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 16 minutes ago, Ross. said: Not convinced Strict Liability will work. If anything I think it will open up a whole new level of tit for tat shite. Offensiveness is subjective and that will cause problems for anyone who tries to apply this. How do you categorise what level of offensive something is? Are songs about the IRA more offensive than being called a paedo for 90 minutes? Is throwing a coin at a player better or worse than 4000 people singing about some war that took place a century back? Strict liability is good in concept but I fear it would open a pandoras box that makes today's pettyness look positively mature. I’m not saying that it’ll work, nobody knows if it will work. But the alternative is to carry on doing what is happening now, nothing. If the clubs don’t do something there is no question that the Government will eventually act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, kingjoey said: I’m not saying that it’ll work, nobody knows if it will work. But the alternative is to carry on doing what is happening now, nothing. If the clubs don’t do something there is no question that the Government will eventually act. More onus has to be on the clubs to take action and refuse tickets to folk who repeatedly act like arseholes. The police also need to do more. And if the government get involved again, it has to be better thought out than the sorry excuse for a piece of legislation that was OBAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 hmm said I would not get caught up in this sort of discussion Oops forgot to quote the guy that said clubs should reduce I assume Celtic and Rangers ticket allocation The above is what would happen initially with strict liability imo, some clubs would stop taking away tickets. Given lots of away trip are boys days out (particularly amongst the 7k away fans Celtic and Rangers potentially have) alcohol reduces inhibitions and generally this is where you get "contentious" singing. I don't know if liability rests then with the hosting club. However longer term, outwith some definition concerns, I think it would work for football. I've never really been worried (recently )about songs, although it can change through time , racist songs were generally acceptable to a large part of society., thus also in football grounds. I've only reacted once at football when I watched adult men ( some with kids) dancing about gleefully at Celtic park like mental marionettes while singing " Who shagged all the boys" It was uncomfortable watching. The bun fight would be definitions as I said, lots of people on here seem not to have too many concerns about using child abuse as a point scoring tactic, I assume some would want it banned inside a stadium or is it strictly religious orientated songs and chants that we have this worry about? The offensive behaviour bill was the authorities attempt to get at Celtic and Rangers by saying we're hitting everyone so dont not vote for us. I have sympathy for a Celtic fan on here defending his right to sing songs from the community that his club came from, I personally don't have a problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 This is clearly whataboutery, but are we all in agreement that chanting about paedos and Jay Beatty not seeing ten in a row should also be punishable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Into the 30th page and we're having a song debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 This is turning into the fitba equivalent of the Red Army and the Nazis arguing about who did the worst murdering and raping in WWII Everyone else cannae be bothered with this shite. It is an absolute stick on that Celtic fans will be singing "bad" songs tomorrow, as it would be when Sevco come to town. Until the league starts docking the clubs points, chucking them out of competitions etc the neanderthals that follow this pair will continue to get away with it. And if any daft radge comes along and says "aye, but what about Hearts fans on Wednesday" - just stop. All clubs have bellends, mine included, but Rangers and Celtic are culpable for the vast majority of sectarian hate in Scottish football and everyone shites it from doing anything. (I await being "proven entirely wrong" by some high moral ground dwelling Celt shortly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: You tell them that there's no place for it in a Scottish football stadium in 2019 and you get a reply like "what do you think about the Aberdeen fan racially abusing Scott Sinclair?" It's almost as if they're surprised when you tell them it's obviously out of order and there's no place for it. Once you take that approach they go quiet. You're new to this game aren't you? Your problem is that you went off script. The *correct* response is more along the lines of 'What aboot that time you guys made ape noises at Mark Walters', and you can each escalate with reciting worse incidents from the other side in turn until you're both safely in agreement that you're not as bad as the other lot, and neither side has to modify their behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, Aim Here said: You're new to this game aren't you? Your problem is that you went off script. The *correct* response is more along the lines of 'What aboot that time you guys made ape noises at Mark Walters', and you can each escalate with reciting worse incidents from the other side in turn until you're both safely in agreement that you're not as bad as the other lot, and neither side has to modify their behaviour. I'd laugh if it wasn't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 39 minutes ago, nsr said: Does it ever get implemented? If Celtic and Sevco had any notion of social responsibility they'd be banning all of these political/religious songs that have hee haw to do with football or the 21st century. Yes it has the police take pics then visit fans at their homes and work place, The GB are always singing you can stick your camera up your arse. Clubs are not responsible for away fans but strict liability would change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Principal Flutie said: Think it's extremely naive to be so certain of strict liability. willy has been completely wrong on almost everything, but he's not wrong on the clubs taking care of themselves. One of the worst ways to punish a club would be to hit them in the pocket, and that will never get support from a boardroom level, which is the only level that matters with these things. You will need to explain were I've been wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
List_of_Jericho Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 What's the green cagoules all about? Tribute to Oasis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, The OP said: This is clearly whataboutery, but are we all in agreement that chanting about paedos and Jay Beatty not seeing ten in a row should also be punishable? I would say yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: You will need to explain were I've been wrong? He explained it quite clearly, on almost everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 55 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Clubs are not responsible for away fans but strict liability would change that. It would be a legal minefield for police and government to implement, clubs don't want anything to do with it. It's not a easy thing to do I'd suggest. Simplest thing would be fans of clubs to get their clubs to ban away supporters from the clubs they deem to be singing songs they dont approve of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Just now, LordHawHaw said: Simplest thing would be fans of clubs to get their clubs to ban away supporters from the clubs they deem to be singing songs they dont approve of I might be reading your post wrong, but are you suggesting that - for example; Aberdeen fans dont like the songs Celtic sing, so they ask Aberdeen not to take tickets for Parkhead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyzer0 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said: This is already in place. And yet large chunks of the Old Firm's away support continues to be able to buy tickets. Weird that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordHawHaw Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Green Day said: I might be reading your post wrong, but are you suggesting that - for example; Aberdeen fans dont like the songs Celtic sing, so they ask Aberdeen not to take tickets for Parkhead? I think most "solutions " would have issues. I'm suggesting if Aberdeen fans dont like songs from visiting Celtic and Rangers fans, and I would think Celtic / Rangers would be most named, then they ask Aberdeen FC not to provide them with tickets home fans only. It not the ideal solution but most likely the easiest. Well aware cup games etc would be an issue but it would be a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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