Queens v Alloa

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

I only saw the last 20 mins yesterday but that was enough  to identify some glaring issues.

Good luck  to Dykes next season, boy will he need it.

Like many other games he was far too easily beaten and knocked off the ball by Alloa defenders -  he doesn't battle, just gives up.   Livi  won't put up with that.

I have said many times he is not sharp enough mentally, in football terms, to make the right decisions.

Dobbie had a shot spilled and there was not anyone following up to get the rebound.  Indeed Dykes had already started to retreat rather than back up his team-mate.

He was on the right, near the bye-line and well closed down by a defender.   There was nothing on so the obvious thing to do would have been to get a corner off the defender, instead he tried the impossible cross which went straight behind the goals.

These are not isolated incidents, there are instances in every game.

For the Manager to have him as main back up to Dobbie is a nonsense and has adversely affected our performance this season.

He does not have the natural instinct of a striker.

Interestingly, I believe the Manager has, in his interview,  come to the remarkable conclusion that we need someone else to be able to score other than Dobbie.

Well Gary, many of us have identified that deficiency in our squad from the beginning of the season but you have chosen to do nothing about it through 2 windows.

It is so frustrating to see Mercer, Marshall et al.  get into great crossing positions only for there to be no-one in the box to get on the end of it because we don't have a natural striker other than Dobbie - who scores most of his goals from the outer edges of the box.

We have needed a Derek Lyle,  Sean O'Connor , Peter Weatherson type striker  to partner Dobbie but Naysmith doesn't seem to have wanted that - so he can't start moaning now.

Maybe because of these striking option deficiencies is why Dobbie chooses not to pass to others who may be in a better position than he is and I kind of get that.

It seemed in that short space of time I saw yesterday that he was trying to score from impossible angles when he was completely surrounded and I am sure he would be the first to admit that some of the shots he did get off yesterday were absolutely awful by his standards.

I think he would love to have an instinctive, like minded striker to link up with and that Del would be top of his list.

Whether Del or whoever, the fact is we had no recognised striker to either start or bring off the bench yesterday to change and influence the game in our favour because Naysmith got rid of them - Smith, Fergusson, Lyle - and never got a replacement.

That is extremely poor management and a dereliction of duty.

There is no doubt that we are missing Todd and that our recent slump has co-incided with his absence.  Outwith Dobbie he is my Player of the Season so far but he is not an out and out striker though he is capable of scoring a decent goal  here and there.

A case in point,  Alloa's winning goal - we could not have scored that because we have no-one that would have been in that position to get on the end of that cross.

That's the striking deficiency but where do you start with the defending.

Again, Naysmith has had over 2 years - since he ditched all the existing defenders - to mould a solid defensive unit but he has never achieved it.

Years of coaching, several windows and we are still so vulnerable from cross-balls.   Refer Alloa's goals yesterday and many others before.

Despite all our pressure their defence stood solid and did not concede a winner. I don't suppose they have a much higher standard of player than we do or pay more than we do so where does the problem lie ?

Yesterday was not a one-off, we have seen it so many times yet we are capable of so much better.

Luckily, this League is so tight we are not completely out of top 4 fight yet but we need to get back to winning ways immediately.

 

 

[SueSue]

4 hours ago, Flash said:

Semple played 15.5 league games in which we conceded 20 goals - an average of 1.29 goals per game. We have played 9.5 league games without him in the side conceding 11 goals, an average of 1.16 goals per game.

And 5 of the 7 goals we have conceded to Alloa in 3 games came with him in the team. An average of 2.5 with him playing and 2 without.

Note that Alloa have scored an average of 0.87 goals per game against everybody else and 2.33 goals per game against us.

 

Stats can be made very positive or negative. One thing I do know,  if you have a commanding keeper who comes and take crosses you certainly concede less goals from crosses and if you work harder to stop crosses coming in, it kind of helps.

In fairness, the number of CB pairings we have had this season has been ridiculous,,,,, for one reason or another.

 

In my opinion the most solid pairing this season was Doyle / Semple

[Guest Flash]

1 hour ago, SueSue said:

 

Stats can be made very positive or negative. One thing I do know,  if you have a commanding keeper who comes and take crosses you certainly concede less goals from crosses and if you work harder to stop crosses coming in, it kind of helps.

In fairness, the number of CB pairings we have had this season has been ridiculous,,,,, for one reason or another.

 

In my opinion the most solid pairing this season was Doyle / Semple

Statistically, the best pairing so far is Fordyce and Doyle who have conceded 3 goals in 4.5 games, an average of 0.67 per game, but from a relatively small sample and they played against teams not at their best.

Semple and Doyle conceded 6 goals from 6 games (including 3 at home to Alloa) but they did have 4 clean sheets, including those against Ayr and County.

Most of the clean sheets have happened with Doyle at CB - 7 out of 12.5 games, including yesterday when it was 3 at the back (mostly).

We have had 2 clean sheets from 11.5 games when Fordyce has played without Doyle.

My conclusion is that Doyle should always play at CB. And I would pair him with Wilson in a 4 to see how that goes. Appreciate it would mean yet another combination, though.

Eta I agree with the points you are making. I posted the stats about Semple to show that there are reasons for the defensive failings that can’t be explained just by whether or not he played.

[Frankie S]

5 hours ago, Flash said:

Semple played 15.5 league games in which we conceded 20 goals - an average of 1.29 goals per game. We have played 9.5 league games without him in the side conceding 11 goals, an average of 1.16 goals per game.

And 5 of the 7 goals we have conceded to Alloa in 3 games came with him in the team. An average of 2.5 with him playing and 2 without.

Note that Alloa have scored an average of 0.87 goals per game against everybody else and 2.33 goals per game against us.

Which just goes to show that there are lies, damned lies and statistics. To anyone with a vaguely working pair of eyes, Semple has been, by a considerable margin, our best centre back this season.

[SueSue]

39 minutes ago, Flash said:

Statistically, the best pairing so far is Fordyce and Doyle who have conceded 3 goals in 4.5 games, an average of 0.67 per game, but from a relatively small sample and they played against teams not at their best.

Semple and Doyle conceded 6 goals from 6 games (including 3 at home to Alloa) but they did have 4 clean sheets, including those against Ayr and County.

Most of the clean sheets have happened with Doyle at CB - 7 out of 12.5 games, including yesterday when it was 3 at the back (mostly).

We have had 2 clean sheets from 11.5 games when Fordyce has played without Doyle.

My conclusion is that Doyle should always play at CB. And I would pair him with Wilson in a 4 to see how that goes. Appreciate it would mean yet another combination, though.

Eta I agree with the points you are making. I posted the stats about Semple to show that there are reasons for the defensive failings that can’t be explained just by whether or not he played.

I totally agree Flash.

It can also be distorted depending if we at home and have an onus to be more attacking or away say at Inverness where we have lined up more defensively minded.

[19QOS19]

2 hours ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

I only saw the last 20 mins yesterday but that was enough  to identify some glaring issues.

Good luck  to Dykes next season, boy will he need it.

Like many other games he was far too easily beaten and knocked off the ball by Alloa defenders -  he doesn't battle, just gives up.   Livi  won't put up with that.

I have said many times he is not sharp enough mentally, in football terms, to make the right decisions.

Dobbie had a shot spilled and there was not anyone following up to get the rebound.  Indeed Dykes had already started to retreat rather than back up his team-mate.

He was on the right, near the bye-line and well closed down by a defender.   There was nothing on so the obvious thing to do would have been to get a corner off the defender, instead he tried the impossible cross which went straight behind the goals.

These are not isolated incidents, there are instances in every game.

For the Manager to have him as main back up to Dobbie is a nonsense and has adversely affected our performance this season.

He does not have the natural instinct of a striker.

Interestingly, I believe the Manager has, in his interview,  come to the remarkable conclusion that we need someone else to be able to score other than Dobbie.

Well Gary, many of us have identified that deficiency in our squad from the beginning of the season but you have chosen to do nothing about it through 2 windows.

It is so frustrating to see Mercer, Marshall et al.  get into great crossing positions only for there to be no-one in the box to get on the end of it because we don't have a natural striker other than Dobbie - who scores most of his goals from the outer edges of the box.

We have needed a Derek Lyle,  Sean O'Connor , Peter Weatherson type striker  to partner Dobbie but Naysmith doesn't seem to have wanted that - so he can't start moaning now.

Maybe because of these striking option deficiencies is why Dobbie chooses not to pass to others who may be in a better position than he is and I kind of get that.

It seemed in that short space of time I saw yesterday that he was trying to score from impossible angles when he was completely surrounded and I am sure he would be the first to admit that some of the shots he did get off yesterday were absolutely awful by his standards.

I think he would love to have an instinctive, like minded striker to link up with and that Del would be top of his list.

Whether Del or whoever, the fact is we had no recognised striker to either start or bring off the bench yesterday to change and influence the game in our favour because Naysmith got rid of them - Smith, Fergusson, Lyle - and never got a replacement.

That is extremely poor management and a dereliction of duty.

There is no doubt that we are missing Todd and that our recent slump has co-incided with his absence.  Outwith Dobbie he is my Player of the Season so far but he is not an out and out striker though he is capable of scoring a decent goal  here and there.

A case in point,  Alloa's winning goal - we could not have scored that because we have no-one that would have been in that position to get on the end of that cross.

That's the striking deficiency but where do you start with the defending.

Again, Naysmith has had over 2 years - since he ditched all the existing defenders - to mould a solid defensive unit but he has never achieved it.

Years of coaching, several windows and we are still so vulnerable from cross-balls.   Refer Alloa's goals yesterday and many others before.

Despite all our pressure their defence stood solid and did not concede a winner. I don't suppose they have a much higher standard of player than we do or pay more than we do so where does the problem lie ?

Yesterday was not a one-off, we have seen it so many times yet we are capable of so much better.

Luckily, this League is so tight we are not completely out of top 4 fight yet but we need to get back to winning ways immediately.

 

 

An incredible post. To spend the majority of it having a pop at our front line when it is arguably the best thing about our side is absolutely laughable. We're the 3rd highest scorers in the division and you're complaining? Dykes has been one of our best players this season even if you want to live in denial. I can't believe you've spent about 90% of your post slaughtering the front line (which isn't an issue) yet briefly mention the fact we conceded from crosses again (the biggest issue with our side!). 

Another painful stat below for you. Dykes is the 3rd top player in the division with assists and is the best striker in the division for providing assists. But you think an aged Lyle, a pacey but ineffective Smith or a meh Fergusson would be a better option? Have a day off will you. 

 

[SUPERSOUTH]

3 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

An incredible post. To spend the majority of it having a pop at our front line when it is arguably the best thing about our side is absolutely laughable. We're the 3rd highest scorers in the division and you're complaining? Dykes has been one of our best players this season even if you want to live in denial. I can't believe you've spent about 90% of your post slaughtering the front line (which isn't an issue) yet briefly mention the fact we conceded from crosses again (the biggest issue with our side!). 

Another painful stat below for you. Dykes is the 3rd top player in the division with assists and is the best striker in the division for providing assists. But you think an aged Lyle, a pacey but ineffective Smith or a meh Fergusson would be a better option? Have a day off will you. 

 

Interesting to see Aird Top that list, Tues might be the time to get him on from the start. 

[queenslad]

15 hours ago, Pumpkin Escobar said:

After we scored I honestly thought we would go on to win it. Total scunner doesn't even start to cover it.

How close a decision was the Dobbie offside a minute after we score?

[Northfield 53]

2 hours ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

I only saw the last 20 mins yesterday but that was enough  to identify some glaring issues.

Good luck  to Dykes next season, boy will he need it.

Like many other games he was far too easily beaten and knocked off the ball by Alloa defenders -  he doesn't battle, just gives up.   Livi  won't put up with that.

I have said many times he is not sharp enough mentally, in football terms, to make the right decisions.

Dobbie had a shot spilled and there was not anyone following up to get the rebound.  Indeed Dykes had already started to retreat rather than back up his team-mate.

He was on the right, near the bye-line and well closed down by a defender.   There was nothing on so the obvious thing to do would have been to get a corner off the defender, instead he tried the impossible cross which went straight behind the goals.

These are not isolated incidents, there are instances in every game.

For the Manager to have him as main back up to Dobbie is a nonsense and has adversely affected our performance this season.

He does not have the natural instinct of a striker.

Interestingly, I believe the Manager has, in his interview,  come to the remarkable conclusion that we need someone else to be able to score other than Dobbie.

Well Gary, many of us have identified that deficiency in our squad from the beginning of the season but you have chosen to do nothing about it through 2 windows.

It is so frustrating to see Mercer, Marshall et al.  get into great crossing positions only for there to be no-one in the box to get on the end of it because we don't have a natural striker other than Dobbie - who scores most of his goals from the outer edges of the box.

We have needed a Derek Lyle,  Sean O'Connor , Peter Weatherson type striker  to partner Dobbie but Naysmith doesn't seem to have wanted that - so he can't start moaning now.

Maybe because of these striking option deficiencies is why Dobbie chooses not to pass to others who may be in a better position than he is and I kind of get that.

It seemed in that short space of time I saw yesterday that he was trying to score from impossible angles when he was completely surrounded and I am sure he would be the first to admit that some of the shots he did get off yesterday were absolutely awful by his standards.

I think he would love to have an instinctive, like minded striker to link up with and that Del would be top of his list.

Whether Del or whoever, the fact is we had no recognised striker to either start or bring off the bench yesterday to change and influence the game in our favour because Naysmith got rid of them - Smith, Fergusson, Lyle - and never got a replacement.

That is extremely poor management and a dereliction of duty.

There is no doubt that we are missing Todd and that our recent slump has co-incided with his absence.  Outwith Dobbie he is my Player of the Season so far but he is not an out and out striker though he is capable of scoring a decent goal  here and there.

A case in point,  Alloa's winning goal - we could not have scored that because we have no-one that would have been in that position to get on the end of that cross.

That's the striking deficiency but where do you start with the defending.

Again, Naysmith has had over 2 years - since he ditched all the existing defenders - to mould a solid defensive unit but he has never achieved it.

Years of coaching, several windows and we are still so vulnerable from cross-balls.   Refer Alloa's goals yesterday and many others before.

Despite all our pressure their defence stood solid and did not concede a winner. I don't suppose they have a much higher standard of player than we do or pay more than we do so where does the problem lie ?

Yesterday was not a one-off, we have seen it so many times yet we are capable of so much better.

Luckily, this League is so tight we are not completely out of top 4 fight yet but we need to get back to winning ways immediately.

 

 

Great post agree with every word 

[Rjc-1988]

Personally I think if the Manager let Dykes focus exclusively on staying “up top”, making runs in behind and most importantly getting on the end of penalty box crosses we would add a massive new dimension to our attacking armoury. Dykes constantly funnelling back to mark the opposing holding midfielder very often leaves him far too much ground to cover when we get into dangerous positions. I think Dykes has made a big contribution but whatever way you argue the issue one solitary League goal for our “supporting striker” is an extremely poor return and the inability of Dykes & Others to score goals puts far too much pressure on Dobbie.

[Guest Flash]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

. 

Another painful stat below for you. Dykes is the 3rd top player in the division with assists and is the best striker in the division for providing assists. But you think an aged Lyle, a pacey but ineffective Smith or a meh Fergusson would be a better option? Have a day off will you. 

Not sure that giving the ball to Dobbie should ever count as an assist. 

[SueSue]

2 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

An incredible post. To spend the majority of it having a pop at our front line when it is arguably the best thing about our side is absolutely laughable. We're the 3rd highest scorers in the division and you're complaining? Dykes has been one of our best players this season even if you want to live in denial. I can't believe you've spent about 90% of your post slaughtering the front line (which isn't an issue) yet briefly mention the fact we conceded from crosses again (the biggest issue with our side!). 

Another painful stat below for you. Dykes is the 3rd top player in the division with assists and is the best striker in the division for providing assists. But you think an aged Lyle, a pacey but ineffective Smith or a meh Fergusson would be a better option? Have a day off will you. 

 

But you are complaining about the 4th best defence in the league !!

Before you bite, I say it tongue in cheek.

i agree that goals conceded from crosses is poor but if you have a keeper that does not come off his line at crosses then common sense tells you that you will lose plenty of goals.

[19QOS19]

Personally I think if the Manager let Dykes focus exclusively on staying “up top”, making runs in behind and most importantly getting on the end of penalty box crosses we would add a massive new dimension to our attacking armoury. Dykes constantly funnelling back to mark the opposing holding midfielder very often leaves him far too much ground to cover when we get into dangerous positions. I think Dykes has made a big contribution but whatever way you argue the issue one solitary League goal for our “supporting striker” is an extremely poor return and the inability of Dykes & Others to score goals puts far too much pressure on Dobbie.

Indeed. I'd love to be able to see how much running each player does in a game as I reckon Dykes probably covers the most ground. When we defend he tucks in to midfield. This makes us a better unit defensively but as you say, it takes away from our attack somewhat.

But you are complaining about the 4th best defence in the league !!
Before you bite, I say it tongue in cheek.
i agree that goals conceded from crosses is poor but if you have a keeper that does not come off his line at crosses then common sense tells you that you will lose plenty of goals.

The defence has been far better in general this season. We are a hard side to break down. The trouble is crosses. Which has been one area we don't appear to have improved.

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

43 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Indeed. I'd love to be able to see how much running each player does in a game as I reckon Dykes probably covers the most ground. When we defend he tucks in to midfield. This makes us a better unit defensively but as you say, it takes away from our attack somewhat.
 

Thats what i thought regarding Dykes...trying to do too much and spreading himself too thin, particularly first half. I thought he improved in the second though.

Great 3 points for Alloa. First half I thought we played some really good stuff. As expected Queens mounted a decent response and I would have bit your hand off for a point after the equaliser. However, after being edged out in a fair few even encounters over the season it was nice for one to fall in our favour- at a ground where the going is always extremely tough for us.

Stevie Hetherington was absolutely outstanding, perhaps his best game of the season. Zanatta always has a game changing moment in him and his delivery for the winner was terrific. Great spirit and resolve by the players after a few bad results. Still hanging in there, and if we can maintain the point per game we have, then we will be in contention to stay up.

[topman1]

The Alloa Chairman always gives his ht draw tickets away

[SUPERSOUTH]

56 minutes ago, topman1 said:

The Alloa Chairman always gives his ht draw tickets away

Funny enough I did think he did the same at the last Queens v Alloa game. Nice touch... 

[BigMartyn86]

Scenes!

[Nithsdale Wanderer]

20 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

An incredible post. To spend the majority of it having a pop at our front line when it is arguably the best thing about our side is absolutely laughable. We're the 3rd highest scorers in the division and you're complaining? Dykes has been one of our best players this season even if you want to live in denial. I can't believe you've spent about 90% of your post slaughtering the front line (which isn't an issue) yet briefly mention the fact we conceded from crosses again (the biggest issue with our side!). 

Another painful stat below for you. Dykes is the 3rd top player in the division with assists and is the best striker in the division for providing assists. But you think an aged Lyle, a pacey but ineffective Smith or a meh Fergusson would be a better option? Have a day off will you. 

 

To put it more succinctly then and Rjc has helped me out here.

The way Naysmith sets up is very one dimensional.

We are just very lucky that that one dimension is Dobbie.

However it is unrealistic to expect him to win us every game and to always be able to demonstrate the amazing levels of form of this season.

We need a centre-forward to give us more options but Naysmith has failed to address that all season  - Dykes is not the player to fill that role.

You mention his running ability - which I don't see - which takes us back to the likes of Jamie Mole, Graham Weir and Andrew  Barrowman.   Bags of energy but very little goal threat.

The only pace we had in the glorious Cup Run team came from Burns and Bob yet we seemed to do all right with the rest, not least 'Big Sean' whom Dobbie has always credited for his contribution to his ( Dobbies') success.     We need a player in that mould.

We also had a solid central defence - again with no pace - who knew how to defend.

Again, Naysmith has failed to address the frailties in that area either through coaching/personnel or both.

It is so easy for teams to work out how to put us under pressure and gain the advantage - just as Alloa did on Saturday.

 

[Guest Flash]

1 hour ago, Nithsdale Wanderer said:

To put it more succinctly then and Rjc has helped me out here.

The way Naysmith sets up is very one dimensional.

We are just very lucky that that one dimension is Dobbie.

However it is unrealistic to expect him to win us every game and to always be able to demonstrate the amazing levels of form of this season.

We need a centre-forward to give us more options but Naysmith has failed to address that all season  - Dykes is not the player to fill that role.

You mention his running ability - which I don't see - which takes us back to the likes of Jamie Mole, Graham Weir and Andrew  Barrowman.   Bags of energy but very little goal threat.

The only pace we had in the glorious Cup Run team came from Burns and Bob yet we seemed to do all right with the rest, not least 'Big Sean' whom Dobbie has always credited for his contribution to his ( Dobbies') success.     We need a player in that mould.

We also had a solid central defence - again with no pace - who knew how to defend.

Again, Naysmith has failed to address the frailties in that area either through coaching/personnel or both.

It is so easy for teams to work out how to put us under pressure and gain the advantage - just as Alloa did on Saturday.

 

Been a while since you watched the goals conceded in the semi-final and the final? Apart from that, the defence conceded 43 league goals that season, pretty much the same as the current one is on course to achieve. And in the following season (when we were playing in Europe and had cash in the bank from the Cup run so were in a position to upgrade) the “solid central defence” conceded 50 league goals. Only Clyde (bottom and relegated) and Livi conceded more - 58 each.

[19QOS19]

To put it more succinctly then and Rjc has helped me out here.
The way Naysmith sets up is very one dimensional.
We are just very lucky that that one dimension is Dobbie.
However it is unrealistic to expect him to win us every game and to always be able to demonstrate the amazing levels of form of this season.
We need a centre-forward to give us more options but Naysmith has failed to address that all season  - Dykes is not the player to fill that role.
You mention his running ability - which I don't see - which takes us back to the likes of Jamie Mole, Graham Weir and Andrew  Barrowman.   Bags of energy but very little goal threat.
The only pace we had in the glorious Cup Run team came from Burns and Bob yet we seemed to do all right with the rest, not least 'Big Sean' whom Dobbie has always credited for his contribution to his ( Dobbies') success.     We need a player in that mould.
We also had a solid central defence - again with no pace - who knew how to defend.
Again, Naysmith has failed to address the frailties in that area either through coaching/personnel or both.
It is so easy for teams to work out how to put us under pressure and gain the advantage - just as Alloa did on Saturday.
 

Give us more options how? Do you believe a different striker would change our system? Dykes is being asked to perform a role and he's clearly doing it well. Another striker taking his place would be required to do the exact same role.

If you can't see the running he does then I suggest you spend time focussing entirely on him. He tucks in to defend then is expected to win our headers when we attack. Comparing him to those 3 is just ridiculous though.

You mention Dobbs crediting O'Connor. Do you truly believe that isn't the exact same case with Dykes? I expect if you asked him he'd say he's more than happy with what Dykes does for him.

Again, we have the league's best striker at providing assists combined with one of the highest scorers in the country. I'm not sure how you can expect any more than that. It's about as good as it gets for Queens.