The Bethnal Green Schoolgirls

[sureiknow]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

She isn't a member of ISIS FFS.

She has admitted on Camera to be a member. You can find it online.

[AUFC90]

 I  know first hand how sophisticated weapons are, the problem you have is not the sophistication of weapons your talking about the damage of a suicide bomber vs for example a missile, when you see the effect of a suicide bomber gone right and delivered at any target  not to mention the effects of Mortar and rocket fire your dealing with people that have pretty much indiscriminate targeting of people.  Your talking coordinated attacks with civilians being used as human shields if any civilians get killed then its bad publicity for Israel and a recruitment drive for Hamas in their eyes its win win.
12 rockets going one way and say 100 going the other you do kind of get a bit pissed off with rocket fire and mortar fire and not being able to do anything about it.  The worst part is not knowing if your going to be the unlucky b*****d on the receiving end of a Mortar.
I fully understand that all am saying need to look at other angles of it not condoning Israels actions and am certainly not condoning Hamas actions but if your arguing the case of one side being oppressed and another being the oppressor then your opening a whole new can of worms.

If you look how Isis managed to grow so rapidly one of the main reasons it grew in Iraq was from  a Sunni minority that felt oppressed by the Shia government and they felt that Isis could give them that balance and look how that panned out.  The argument here being the Sunni minority being oppressed by the Shia govt so does that justify the actions of Isis. The attacks carried out by Isis were mainly in response for attacks on Muslims around the world yet they ignored the fact they killed thousands of Muslims  (mainly Shia and Sunni) in their territory once held as a Caliphate.
 

Wait. You're talking about how Israels use of precision weapons somehow makes it better. What about their use of cluster munitions that lead to tens of Lebanese civilians dying daily weeks after the Israeli offensive ?

[NotThePars]

Those weapons aren’t that precise either. And they still keep shooting journalists and children.

[welshbairn]

Wait. You're talking about how Israels use of precision weapons somehow makes it better. What about their use of cluster munitions that lead to tens of Lebanese civilians dying daily weeks after the Israeli offensive ?

Their use of white phosphorus in civilian areas is a bit naughty too. Sounds like chemical warfare to me, which is generally frowned upon.

 

[Granny Danger]

6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

The IDF example is not really a very appropriate example.

 

According to Israel’s Defense Law, service in the IDF is obligatory. This law applies to:

 

- Citizens of the State of Israel, whether they are residing in

Israel or abroad, even if they have another nationality. 

 

- Permanent residents of Israel, even if they are not Israeli citizens.

 

The military authorities have authorized Consulates abroad to perform certain services pertaining to military service. These include determining if one is obligated to serve in the army, verifying information on army service, and granting deferments. 

 

Upon entering Israel, every citizen above the age of 17 is required to show proof of his or her military status. One’s army status is determined by his or her obligation to serve in the IDF and eligibility for a deferment or release from service.

 

You can apply for a deferment if your parents emigrated before you were 16 but no exemptions are accepted in any circumstances. Even if you were born abroad you are still eligible for military service.

 

Basically if you are an Israeli citizen or your parents are then don't visit Israel if you don't want to become eligible for military service in Israel.

 

A better example would be Jack Letts who hasn't had his British citizenship revoked despite having dual British-Canadian nationality.

 

What a bizarre post.  So if ISIS had an obligation on all Muslims to fight for them then it would be OK?

No obligation by the state of Israel justifies or the excuses non residents of Israel fighting in the IDF.

 

[dorlomin]

9 hours ago, Detournement said:

She isn't a member of ISIS FFS.

Quote

 

You have obviously been through a lot over the last few years. Can you describe what it has been like to live with and under the Islamic State?

At first it was nice, it was like how they showed it in the videos, like 'come, make a family together'.

Then afterwards, things got harder, you know. When we lost Raqqa we had to keep moving and moving and moving. The situation got difficult.

 

Quote

 

Was there a point when you started to have second thoughts about your life under Islamic State?

Only at the end, after my son died. I realised I had to get out for the sake of my children - for the sake of my daughter and my baby. Yeah.

Only at the end?

Yeah.

You didn't have any regrets up until that point?

No.

What was it about Islamic State that attracted you? What did you like about it?

The way they showed that you can go [to Syria] and they'll take care of you.

You can have your own family, do anything. You're living under Islamic law.

Did you know what Islamic State were doing when you left for Syria? Because they had beheaded people. There were executions.

Yeah, I knew about those things and I was okay with it. Because, you know, I started becoming religious just before I left.

From what I heard, Islamically that is all allowed. So I was okay with it.

 

She openly states she went to live with and under al-Dawla (also known as Daesh and Islamic State). Its not like you get a membership card and collect stamps for every cup of coffee you buy. It presented itself as a state and those who it governed as citizens were its members. That is what the followers believed and how they operated. 

Your bullshit is never ending. 

Edited February 23, 2019 by dorlomin

[O'Kelly Isley III]

22 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

She openly states she went to live with and under al-Dawla (also known as Daesh and Islamic State). Its not like you get a membership card and collect stamps for every cup of coffee you buy. It presented itself as a state and those who it governed as citizens were its members. That is what the followers believed and how they operated. 

Your bullshit is never ending. 

Alternative views are available.....

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17453215.kevin-mckenna-if-we-truly-believe-in-britains-superior-sense-of-decency-then-let-shamima-begum-come-home/

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What a bizarre post.  So if ISIS had an obligation on all Muslims to fight for them then it would be OK?
No obligation by the state of Israel justifies or the excuses non residents of Israel fighting in the IDF.
 

There are 28 countries where there is an obligation to serve in the military - this applies to dual citizens - this is also recognised in international law - any call by Daesh for Muslims to fight for them is not comparable because such a call would not be recognised under international law.

McDonnell's example misses the point - he really should be asking why some Daesh members are having their citizenship revoked whilst others aren't.

Call me a cycnic but if Ms Begum were a dual British-Canadian like Jack Letts she wouldn't be getting her nationality revoked - it's dog whistle politics of the worst kind by the Home Secretary.

[Granny Danger]

4 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There are 28 countries where there is an obligation to serve in the military - this applies to dual citizens - this is also recognised in international law - any call by Daesh for Muslims to fight for them is not comparable because such a call would not be recognised under international law.

McDonnell's example misses the point - he really should be asking why some Daesh members are having their citizenship revoked whilst others aren't.

Call me a cycnic but if Ms Begum were a dual British-Canadian like Jack Letts she wouldn't be getting her nationality revoked - it's dog whistle politics of the worst kind by the Home Secretary.

Funny thing international law.  Set by the powerful, imposed on the powerless.  Vetos for certain countries in international bodies that make a mockery of the concept of democracy.

Countries deciding that they would not be signatories to the ICC or be bound by conventions on, say, climate change.

But yeah we should treat people who fight in the IDF differently to other combatants!

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Get her tae f**k but let the wean in.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Funny thing international law.  Set by the powerful, imposed on the powerless.  Vetos for certain countries in international bodies that make a mockery of the concept of democracy. Countries deciding that they would not be signatories to the ICC or be bound by conventions on, say, climate change.

But yeah we should treat people who fight in the IDF differently to other combatants!

 

 

We could go round in circles here with this one - you and I will disagree on the issue - which perhaps is the point I'm trying to make. 

 

 

McDonnell used an example where there will be disagreement on. Yet there are hundreds of other examples of Daesh members not getting their nationality revoked that could have been used instead.

 

I just don't know why McDonnell didn't use more obvious examples.

 

Why does the dual British-Canadian Jack Letts still have his nationality?

 

Like Hoda Muthana in the USA the removal of Shamima Begum's nationality is entirely to feed the prejudices of the racists in the electorate.

 

 

 

[welshbairn]

 

 

 

 

I just don't know why McDonnell didn't use more obvious examples.

 

 

 

The McDonnell letter was from 2014 when the Israelis were dropping white phosphorus bombs on the Gaza Strip.

It was about morality rather than UK national security, but he had a point if Brits were involved in war crimes.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

 
 
 

 
The McDonnell letter was from 2014 when the Israelis were dropping white phosphorus bombs on the Gaza Strip.
It was about morality rather than UK national security, but he had a point if Brits were involved in war crimes.

That is a different matter entirely - if anyone is complicit then they should be prosecuted for war crimes not for membership of the IDF.

That being said any Briton who serves in an active combat role in the IDF would either be a dual national or have a Jewish grandparent - you are not allowed to be in a combat IDF role if you are non-Israeli and non-Jewish.

[dorlomin]

 

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

The McDonnell letter was from 2014 when the Israelis were dropping white phosphorus bombs on the Gaza Strip.

It was about morality rather than UK national security, but he had a point if Brits were involved in war crimes.

Quote

Will you be warning any British citizens considering engagement with the IDF that, in line with established British Government practice (e.g. the deprivation of British citizenship from, to date, at least 40 UK passport holders who have been involved in the Syrian civil war), such engagement may put their British citizenship in jeopardy?

Given the seriousness of the current situation in Gaza and the apparent escalation of the Israeli attacks on Palestinians, I urge you to address these questions promptly so that any British citizen currently participating or planning to participate in these attacks is warned of the potential consequences and thus may be deterred from acting in this way.

Yours

John McDonnell MP

So again, Begum is far from a unique case.

This has been known for many years.

Labours current leadership had no problem with this it seems and wanted the principle extended.

 

Ok.

Now McDonnell\Corbyn look* to be targeting Jews while being soft on Islamists.  Thick as pigshit.

 

The principles "too much power for the home secretary", "the baby must come first" would have been more defenable. They would have certainly had more moral clarity.

Where are we now, we wait for the courts to decide if she has Bangladeshi citizenship, the tories have talked themselves into being tough on every fugly jihadi who pops their head above the parapet, Labour are in another fine mess on an issue a half decent PR team could have steered them around. And the white knights will have to find yet another reason to champion Begum.

*read the word slowly.

[Lofarl]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/alan-henning-al-qaeda-appealed-to-isis-to-release-british-aid-worker-following-kidnap-9734598.html

 

When Al-Qaeda think your groups acting a bit shitty you probably should rethink your actions.  But whatever she’s cool with beheadings and that.

[Detournement]

Al Qaeda were getting loads of weapons from the USA at that point so they were obviously trying to return the favour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore

[Donathan]

Nice to know that even Al Qaeda like to take the odd break from blowing up westerners to keep ISIS in check

[JamieThomas]

I see that's her bairn deid. Should give the sieg heil lads on here a wee stauner.

[DrewDon]

Javid won't give a shit. That's a few more votes in the bank for his looming leadership bid. 

[Bairnardo]

Compounds an absolutely abhorrent decision made by that horrible Tory c**t Javid. 

Would she realistically have been back here by now anyway? She was told she would have to get to a UK consulate under her own steam before the citizenship stripping happened. Dont think the bairn would have survived that ordeal either tbh.