parsforlife Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just that it was voted through 73-13. Very disappointing news. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I'm fed up of being tarred with always feeding a line so will wait for burnie who will certainly get the same details. Fair enough.I'm just keen to understand the reality of the situation, given the amount of my own personal time and effort I've put into our licence application in the last 18 months and the amount we've either already spent / plan on spending going forward to achieve / maintain the licence.Given we haven't even had so much as an email from the SFA (excluding the licencing guys who have been great) since February to say when we will be passed to licencing, I don't expect they will be overly bothered about giving us the info you're talking about, because you know we're wee and insignificant and not part of the club. [emoji34] 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Big bad Kelty[emoji6] Al is always ready to have a pop.I've no idea how kelty voted. Perhaps recent is the wrong word. I meant the number of non league support there must have been. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, superbigal said: 11 minutes ago, gogsy said: Big bad Kelty Al is always ready to have a pop. I've no idea how kelty voted. Perhaps recent is the wrong word. I meant the number of non league support there must have been. Not knowing exactly how this full membership associate membership divide will work it's not that surprising. There's nothing below the HFL so combined with the SPFL that's 59 potential votes for no obvious change to themselves and disadvantaging others. Then you've got 16 at Tier 5 and 4 outwith the pyramid. That just leaves a grand total of 10 clubs at Tier 6 or 7. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 A bit like asking turkeys to vote on Christmas if you ask me. Just so we are clear though and for the avoidance of doubt, what is rumoured to be happening is the following: Club applies for licence, spends somewhere between 0 and maybe 75k (if doing floodlights and everything else), trying to better itself and become part of the sfa driven pyramid..... To be now told you dont get a full membership, you might not play in the Scottish and we aren't giving you the same split of the money that other clubs (who have done less work on their ground)? And we are to be okay with that? Are the sfa for real? I thought April the 1st had passed, then I saw mulraney was the new vp, then I saw this news. Bewildered would be an understatement. Some clubs in the HL/LL doing the old self preservation society pact aswell by the looks of it. Scottish football.... Progressive, forward thinking, fair and transparent.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedirules Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 can someone tell me if Bonnyrigg are licensed and up or not ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, gaz5 said: So you have any idea what it means? Does anyone? Distribution of license payments is currently based on licence type (Entry, Bronze etc.). Voting rights, fair enough. But does anyone actually know what changes were presented/proposed and have been agreed here? From what I've heard, the only effect is on SFA AGM voting, not on Scottish Cup or whatever. Apparently some "rumoured" aspects didn't appear either - existing members outwith tiers 1-5 keep their votes; promoted clubs or those in any intermediate divisions formed in times ahead would have votes; and SFA board's only right to variance is to grant votes to otherwise unentitled clubs (not vice-versa). Edited June 12, 2019 by HibeeJibee 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Also what if an 'associate' club gets promoted to tier 5 thus becomes a full member then gets relegated. Do they revert back to an associate or are they a full member thereafter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, gogsy said: That might be true but if we find out the associate clubs are disadvantaged in any way (except voting rights) I reserve the right to call all the other non league clubs that voted for this a bunch of shitehawks. At the moment it's not exactly clear to me what's going on with this. A number of clubs are showing themselves to have been awarded "Full Membership" to the SFA. People are saying that any Associate Membership only ends if you get promoted to Tier 5. Does that mean if they are promoted and relegated straight away to the go Associate-Full-Associate, or simply getting Tier 5 status allows them to retain Full Membership from then on? With these new 6 membership forms not worth the paper they're printed on because they're actually Associate Members now? The ruling needs clarified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 minute ago, HibeeJibee said: From what I've heard, the only effect is on SFA AGM voting, not on Scottish Cup or whatever. Apparently some "rumoured" aspects didn't appear either - existing clubs outwith tiers 1-5 keep their votes; clubs in any intermediate divisions formed in times ahead would have votes; and SFA board's only right to variance is to grant rights to otherwise unentitled clubs (not vice versa). If true, and associate members even still get the same cash handouts full members get it's a storm in a tea cup. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 From what I've heard, the only effect is on SFA AGM voting, not on Scottish Cup or whatever. Apparently some "rumoured" aspects didn't appear either - existing members outwith tiers 1-5 keep their votes; promoted clubs or those in any intermediate divisions formed in times ahead would have votes; and SFA board's only right to variance is to grant rights to otherwise unentitled clubs (not vice-versa).This is broadly in line with what I’ve heard and understand, but I guess it could be the thin end of the wedge and might be seen as preparing the ground as far as trying to further marginalise and limit the membership benefits of those outwith the top 5 tiers is concerned. What I’m not clear on is this - does ‘Associate Membership’ apply to the six clubs awarded membership today or have they got in before the door was slammed behind them? I’m assuming from the photos posted that show certificates with the words “Full Member” on them that they are indeed full members with the accompanying voting rights et al and not just associate ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 My gripe is if current members outside the pyramid keep full member status we have a situation where lets say Banks O Dee who have declined pyramid participation will get a vote but an EOS member who has engaged with the pyramid will not & may never get to full member status due to being a club where the EOS is their level/ceiling 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Not knowing exactly how this full membership associate membership divide will work it's not that surprising. There's nothing below the HFL so combined with the SPFL that's 59 potential votes for no obvious change to themselves and disadvantaging others. Then you've got 16 at Tier 5 and 4 outwith the pyramid. That just leaves a grand total of 10 clubs at Tier 6 or 7. Remember it's not just clubs which are SFA members and have votes. Schools, Youth, Womens etc. FAs are members with a vote each - as are 9 county FAs (some of which are controlled by SPFL clubs/some by non-league clubs). Unless there is some existing regulation that only clubs vote on membership rules, then 73-13... if correct... would suggest a number of clubs and/or bodies abstained (or were absent tbf). 20 minutes ago, Black & Red Socks said: This is broadly in line with what I’ve heard and understand, but I guess it could be the thin end of the wedge as far as trying to marginalise and limit the membership benefits of those outwith the top 5 tiers is concerned. Absolutely, and it's still far from ideal. That said - one school of thought could say if it neuters the big clubs "fear" of the small clubs theoretically gaining the whip hand, it might actually lessen any motivation to restrict new clubs. EDIT: Incidentally, until few years ago new clubs spent 5yrs as non-voting associates. That only ended when licensing started in early/mid-2010s, IIRC. Edited June 12, 2019 by HibeeJibee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, superbigal said: I'm fed up of being tarred with always feeding a line so will wait for burnie who will certainly get the same details. If you had been paying attention I have been posting about this upcoming proposal for the last few weeks. I saw the actual documents probably the day after you posted your expose on here. This only affects voting rights and nothing else, but we know it can lead onto other things in future years. What I am exceptionally disappointed about is that it passed, and so comprehensively with many LL and HL clubs voting for it. Protectionism of the highest regard. Edited June 12, 2019 by Burnie_man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 minute ago, gogsy said: Back to the Bonnyrigg and Dundonald (and others)situation is the SFA AGM a place where that would have been decided/snnounced anyway? SFA AGM voting on applications - like leagues do - ended when licensing started. SFA board approves memberships. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cumbo Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Next board meeting is June 20th so I have been told 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Informer Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Burnie_man said: If you had been paying attention I have been posting about this upcoming proposal for the last few weeks. I saw the actual documents probably the day after you posted your expose on here. This only affects voting rights and nothing else, but we know it can lead onto other things in future years. What I am exceptionally disappointed about is that it passed, and so comprehensively with many LL and HL clubs voting for it. Protectionism of the highest regard. The most surprising vote of the day goes to Tom Johnston, who I am told from a very reliable source also voted for it. I wonder what his members will make of that? Edited June 12, 2019 by The Informer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted June 12, 2019 Author Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Informer said: The most surprising vote of the day goes to Tom Johnston, who I am told from a very reliable source also voted for it. I wonder what his members will make if that? I wonder if his members even knew he had a vote, but it's no surprise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Informer said: The most surprising vote of the day goes to Tom Johnston, who I am told from a very reliable source also voted for it. I wonder what his members will make of that? Wow! Bet Pollock and Clydebank are delighted with that! (It was them who applied for a license...having a brainfart!) Edited June 12, 2019 by Spyro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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