The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[Spanish Armada]

2 hours ago, peternapper said:

Just out of interest how many of your squad are full time, have always wondered how the hybrid system works for training etc, if you have 7 or 8 full time can you do much in training apart from fitness, as i say i have no idea of the split between full time & part time players you have. You can see the difference with a full time team like Falkirk but at our level if you can get good part timers think you can get better value.

 

Like 9 or 10 FTs and the rest are part timers 

[Stevo1968]

Would be interesting to see where we’d have been with a midfield of Paton Kerr and Turner from the start of the season..

[Spanish Armada]

21 hours ago, Peter LaFleur said:

Turners a very good signing but Paton is a donkey. It amazes me looking back at his career after seeing him play. Fair play to him.

Pates will be good enough for this level,experienced head and could raise the standards of Thomson Oreilly and Roy

[Passionate]

7 hours ago, Spanish Armada said:

Pates will be good enough for this level,experienced head and could raise the standards of Thomson Oreilly and Roy

Personally think the signings of Paton and Turner, show the board is fully behind I am Murray...  A quality of player we have to recruit ....  Not spunk out resources on youth players that have no team to play in.

 

Raising the standards of Thomson, o Reilly and Roy...  I would like to think we would move on from these players at season end,  they are perennial subs who put no pressure on the starting 11 who struggle also..

 

What do you think will happen in the close season Spanish Armada,   a reset with an emphasis on building a team trying to get more experience or the status quo of released pro youth players which has proven not to work under IK stewardship and to be honest Stuart Millars tenure also.

[stuartcraig]

1 hour ago, Passionate said:

Personally think the signings of Paton and Turner, show the board is fully behind I am Murray...  A quality of player we have to recruit ....  Not spunk out resources on youth players that have no team to play in.

Not quite as catchy as "I'm Spartacus".

[Diamonds are Forever]

On 21/03/2021 at 19:03, airdrieman said:

 

Yeah I completely agree with both of these posts. I actually think the hybrid structure is the best way to go in terms of where the club is at on and off the park at the moment. But, as with everything, the execution is what matters. And while I think there's a kernel of a good squad there, I don't believe we have a manager who gets the best out of them or an overall effective recruitment/squad-building strategy. I don't expect every signing to work out but, for a promotion chasing side, I do expect at least a little bit of fire-power or game-changing ability off the bench. But our options off the bench are actually pathetic in all honesty. We must have the biggest drop-off in quality between starting XI and the substitutes' bench in the league. 

A novel strategy, though one that might just work, is hiring a manager who signs good players and plays them in their best positions. 

I'd be happy to keep Currie, Kerr, Fordyce, Crighton, McCann, P. McKay, Robert, Carrick and Gallagher and bin the rest. Though I'd expect Robert to be gone (albeit he could possibly come back on loan) and, if Murray is still around, Roy and Jack McKay to be offered deals as well. 

 

Yes I think we can discuss all day the merits of part-time/hybrid/full-time, but much like discussing formations it isn't so much the formation that is important but how it is executed. As you say we have tried various methods but failed to execute any of them properly so it's hard to fully judge which is the best, although I try!

For years we had fans (myself included) saying we should be signing the best of the part-time players in League 1. We tried that under Findlay and were hopeless - was it the execution or the strategy? Probably the execution, but having said that at the time all the signings were applauded, so it's hard to fully pin blame on any one person. We probably went from one extreme (too many young players) to the other and the squad was too slow, plodding and lacked energy.

We tried the 'Football Manager' approach under Wotherspoon and King of signing a bunch of young guys, chucking them in the 1st team and selling them for a profit, which was always going to be a disaster. I'm quite happy to put that one down as a failed strategy rather than execution. Naive in the extreme, and almost finished the club.

And then we've tried the hybrid system which can clearly work going by what other teams have done. But I think the key is having a clear strategy in terms of recruitment. We currently have a completely random mix of types of players, as a result we have no clear strategy on the park. Are we a passing side? Direct? Aggressive? Counter attacking? Probably all and none of these at the same time! I think this stems from having various people involved in the recruitment process. Murray has clearly been given players that he doesn't fancy (Sabatini for example) which makes it very hard to build a team the way you want it. It feels more like a continental system where he has been given players and then told to make a team out of it. At this level I don't think that works.

I'm not really fussed whether Murray stays or goes, but whoever is in charge needs to have control to sign their own players who play the system that he wants. If you look at teams who have gone up in recent years (or stayed up) like Alloa, Ayr, Raith, and Abroath they all had an experienced core to their team and managers who had full control to bring in their own players. I can't imagine the likes of Ian McCall, Jim Goodwin, Dick Campbell or John McGlynn putting up with having players delivered to them that they didn't personally want to sign. They all had pretty simple ways of playing, but the players they had fitted that system.

It is also far easier to hold the manager accountable with that set-up. If you have one person in charge of recruitment and tactics then there is one person you replace when things aren't going well, you don't need to rip up the entire structure of the club and start again like we seem to do every time.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Diamonds are Forever

[airdrieman]

On 23/03/2021 at 09:10, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Yes I think we can discuss all day the merits of part-time/hybrid/full-time, but much like discussing formations it isn't so much the formation that is important but how it is executed. As you say we have tried various methods but failed to execute any of them properly so it's hard to fully judge which is the best, although I try!

For years we had fans (myself included) saying we should be signing the best of the part-time players in League 1. We tried that under Findlay and were hopeless - was it the execution or the strategy? Probably the execution, but having said that at the time all the signings were applauded, so it's hard to fully pin blame on any one person. We probably went from one extreme (too many young players) to the other and the squad was too slow, plodding and lacked energy.

We tried the 'Football Manager' approach under Wotherspoon and King of signing a bunch of young guys, chucking them in the 1st team and selling them for a profit, which was always going to be a disaster. I'm quite happy to put that one down as a failed strategy rather than execution. Naive in the extreme, and almost finished the club.

And then we've tried the hybrid system which can clearly work going by what other teams have done. But I think the key is having a clear strategy in terms of recruitment. We currently have a completely random mix of types of players, as a result we have no clear strategy on the park. Are we a passing side? Direct? Aggressive? Counter attacking? Probably all and none of these at the same time! I think this stems from having various people involved in the recruitment process. Murray has clearly been given players that he doesn't fancy (Sabatini for example) which makes it very hard to build a team the way you want it. It feels more like a continental system where he has been given players and then told to make a team out of it. At this level I don't think that works.

I'm not really fussed whether Murray stays or goes, but whoever is in charge needs to have control to sign their own players who play the system that he wants. If you look at teams who have gone up in recent years (or stayed up) like Alloa, Ayr, Raith, and Abroath they all had an experienced core to their team and managers who had full control to bring in their own players. I can't imagine the likes of Ian McCall, Jim Goodwin, Dick Campbell or John McGlynn putting up with having players delivered to them that they didn't personally want to sign. They all had pretty simple ways of playing, but the players they had fitted that system.

It is also far easier to hold the manager accountable with that set-up. If you have one person in charge of recruitment and tactics then there is one person you replace when things aren't going well, you don't need to rip up the entire structure of the club and start again like we seem to do every time.

Completely agree. It's a funny one because in terms of our hybrid squad the last two seasons, I think we have had the mix pretty much spot on in terms of our goalies and defence. A good mix of full-time and part-time players and players with experience (Hutton, Gallacher, Currie, Crighton, Fordyce and Eckersley) and young players with potential but who are still good enough to play (Currie again, Kerr, MacDonald and McCann). That's about as good as you'll get at this level. In terms of our attack I'd say our success rate has been more 50/50. Some very good players at this level like Carrick (who I genuinely think is one of the best players in this league), Gallagher, briefly Andy Ryan and Robert and Connell who are both very raw but more than good enough and are potential match-winners on their day (especially Robert). Then the rest of our attack is made-up of guys who, with all the will in the world, just aren't good enough for what we want to achieve - Ally Roy, Thomson, Stokes and O'Reilly. Thomson and O'Reilly both have raw attributes and the pace to cause teams trouble, and it's fine to have players like that in your squad to an extent. But if you want to achieve promotion you need better than that, especially when they're the first substitutes or immediate replacements for the players in the starting XI. You should be bringing these guys on as a last throw of the dice - not as your first subs or when you're needing a player to change or win you a game as these guys are just not going to do that. Our poor squad building isn't just down to recruitment but in giving guys like Roy and Thomson a new contract when they didn't do anything to earn one. I'm also not sure why both Thomson and O'Reilly were signed when they're practically the same player (even down to which youth system they came through funnily enough). 

But it's our midfield recruitment that has been the biggest disaster. Last season - Millar, Wedderburn and Roberts - honest pros who do what they do but not good enough for a promotion chasing side (and sorry for bringing up those 3 again!). But we started this season with a centre midfield of any of Kerr, McKay, Sabatini and Ritchie. If you include Paton now, that's 4 or 5 midfielders who do more or less the same thing in the middle of the park. What's the need for that? Do you really need to sign Dean Ritchie? Or play Josh Kerr in midfield? And Sabatini and Ritchie have barely got a sniff all season so why sign them if you don't think they're any better than Kerr and McKay, both of whom aren't possibly even midfielders? It just reeks of having no strategy and trying to mould a team out of whichever players are available. I also have no idea a lot of the time who in the midfield is meant to be doing what - who's a #6, #8, #10 etc - what position players are playing or what our tactics actually are. And I don't think that's just down to Pixellot. 

TBH my patience with Murray has pretty much worn out but, if he does get us to the play-offs, he does deserve a chance to build a squad of fully his own signings. Which I don't think he's ever got the chance to do apart from maybe his first January transfer window. 

[airdrieman]

Anyone know if Paul McKay and Thomas Robert will be alright for Saturday? I'm going to be in a foul mood on Saturday from 14:00 onwards if I have to struggle to identify Dean Ritchie and/or watch Thomson or O'Reilly run the ball out of play under no pressure or shank a cross for 60-90 minutes. 

[Spanish Armada]

11 hours ago, airdrieman said:

Anyone know if Paul McKay and Thomas Robert will be alright for Saturday? I'm going to be in a foul mood on Saturday from 14:00 onwards if I have to struggle to identify Dean Ritchie and/or watch Thomson or O'Reilly run the ball out of play under no pressure or shank a cross for 60-90 minutes. 

Ritchie couldn't kick the ball that far to shank it out woeful 

[airdrieman]

11 hours ago, Spanish Armada said:

Ritchie couldn't kick the ball that far to shank it out woeful 

Haha aye I’ve honestly got no idea what he’s supposed to bring to the team. I suppose he can play in a couple of positions but what’s the use in that if you don’t actually contribute anything? Him and Eoghan Stokes must be two of the most anonymous players I’ve ever seen play for Airdrie. 

[Joze M]

On 25/03/2021 at 12:19, airdrieman said:

Anyone know if Paul McKay and Thomas Robert will be alright for Saturday? I'm going to be in a foul mood on Saturday from 14:00 onwards if I have to struggle to identify Dean Ritchie and/or watch Thomson or O'Reilly run the ball out of play under no pressure or shank a cross for 60-90 minutes. 

Thomas robert Is fine and should be starting if selected on Saturday

[Diamonds are Forever]

On 24/03/2021 at 14:24, airdrieman said:

Completely agree. It's a funny one because in terms of our hybrid squad the last two seasons, I think we have had the mix pretty much spot on in terms of our goalies and defence. A good mix of full-time and part-time players and players with experience (Hutton, Gallacher, Currie, Crighton, Fordyce and Eckersley) and young players with potential but who are still good enough to play (Currie again, Kerr, MacDonald and McCann). That's about as good as you'll get at this level. In terms of our attack I'd say our success rate has been more 50/50. Some very good players at this level like Carrick (who I genuinely think is one of the best players in this league), Gallagher, briefly Andy Ryan and Robert and Connell who are both very raw but more than good enough and are potential match-winners on their day (especially Robert). Then the rest of our attack is made-up of guys who, with all the will in the world, just aren't good enough for what we want to achieve - Ally Roy, Thomson, Stokes and O'Reilly. Thomson and O'Reilly both have raw attributes and the pace to cause teams trouble, and it's fine to have players like that in your squad to an extent. But if you want to achieve promotion you need better than that, especially when they're the first substitutes or immediate replacements for the players in the starting XI. You should be bringing these guys on as a last throw of the dice - not as your first subs or when you're needing a player to change or win you a game as these guys are just not going to do that. Our poor squad building isn't just down to recruitment but in giving guys like Roy and Thomson a new contract when they didn't do anything to earn one. I'm also not sure why both Thomson and O'Reilly were signed when they're practically the same player (even down to which youth system they came through funnily enough). 

But it's our midfield recruitment that has been the biggest disaster. Last season - Millar, Wedderburn and Roberts - honest pros who do what they do but not good enough for a promotion chasing side (and sorry for bringing up those 3 again!). But we started this season with a centre midfield of any of Kerr, McKay, Sabatini and Ritchie. If you include Paton now, that's 4 or 5 midfielders who do more or less the same thing in the middle of the park. What's the need for that? Do you really need to sign Dean Ritchie? Or play Josh Kerr in midfield? And Sabatini and Ritchie have barely got a sniff all season so why sign them if you don't think they're any better than Kerr and McKay, both of whom aren't possibly even midfielders? It just reeks of having no strategy and trying to mould a team out of whichever players are available. I also have no idea a lot of the time who in the midfield is meant to be doing what - who's a #6, #8, #10 etc - what position players are playing or what our tactics actually are. And I don't think that's just down to Pixellot. 

TBH my patience with Murray has pretty much worn out but, if he does get us to the play-offs, he does deserve a chance to build a squad of fully his own signings. Which I don't think he's ever got the chance to do apart from maybe his first January transfer window. 

 

That's the best example of what I was saying. I don't believe any manager who had full control of building their own squad would spend wages on McKay, Kerr, Sabatini and Ritchie who all play the same role. Although I think what may have happened is that Ritchie and Sabatini were given to Murray as midfielders and he didn't fancy them so has persisted with Kerr and McKay in there. But either way it's an issue - we're either signing the same type of player 4 times over, or we're ending up with too many players in that position because the manager has been given players he doesn't want and then is playing other players in their position.

Like with the Wotherspoon/King team a few years back there is clearly an element of the club being a shop window for players. I have absolutely no problem at all with us providing an opportunity for younger players and selling them, but that should be a natural side effect of having a good team on the park, of which you'd expect there to be 2 or 3 younger guys who may move up the leagues. What we shouldn't be doing is losing focus of the fact that the purpose of the 1st team is to win games and to get us out this league, not to just sell on players for the sake of it. For every Thomas Robert there has been about 10 young guys who've done nothing. At boardroom level the aim seems to be to bring in younger guys and sell them on, whereas the manager is focused on results, therefore there will be a clash in the middle and I think that is where our issue lies at the moment. Murray has his guys, and Millar/the board provided theirs, and it's become a bit mix and match.

As I've said, I want us to simplify things, give the manager the best budget we can and let him sign the players. If it goes wrong you sack him and release the players he brought in and try again.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Diamonds are Forever

[airdrieman]

Hopefully this time it will be Ian McCall giving the expletive-filled rant tomorrow.

Edited March 26, 2021 by airdrieman

[Kenny_m]

16 hours ago, Joze M said:

Thomas robert Is fine and should be starting if selected on Saturday

Needs to more as the match passed him by last week.

[Jack Reed]

1 hour ago, Kenny_m said:

Needs to more as the match passed him by last week.

Certainly never done much before going off, think mentioned once first half, 

[Eric the half a b]

3 hours ago, Jack Reed said:

Certainly never done much before going off, think mentioned once first half, 

Difficult game to predict both very inconsistent hopefully we can reverse the score from 1st game v thistle

[Jack Reed]

36 minutes ago, Eric the half a b said:

Difficult game to predict both very inconsistent hopefully we can reverse the score from 1st game v thistle

Yes, I have no doubt that he has  talent, maybe more suited to a higher league team, aye a win today would make the weekend, 

[airdrieman]

Laughably defending for all three of their goals. Pathetic. 

[Jack Reed]

They said it was the easiest ground to get a win, seems they were right, away  team scores, we are beat, 

[Eric the half a b]

8 minutes ago, Jack Reed said:

They said it was the easiest ground to get a win, seems they were right, away  team scores, we are beat, 

Awful