The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[Diamonds02]

1 hour ago, David Fernández said:

In the last 10 years the managers that have won league 1 are;

Allan Johnston

Ian McCall x2

John McGlynn

Dick Campbell

Jim Duffy

David Martindale

Paul Hartley

Do you notice anything in particular with the managers I've listed? Majority of them are all experienced managers and have won trophies/promotions previously with other clubs.

Is the management team learning from their mistakes though? I think most of the posters on this thread understood the 6-0 Edinburgh game for an example but time and time again we completely capitulate.

I'm one of McCabe's biggest fans he was my favourite player last season and I backed the appointment 100% but I think everyone one here will admit the appointment was a gamble.

Even with having a model of a youth academy, young players etc and what you see as a better structure, even if you do get to the Championship, there's no guarantee you would stay there, that league is so competitive even teams like Falkirk, Thistle and Dunfermline have been relegated to this league.

Unfortunately I don't have many decent memories being an Airdrie fan, the only one really being the 2004 league title, my focus would be on getting out of this league no matter what, because we've been jobbing it here for over a decade now.

Yeah can't deny the evidence but to be fair it also shows that it can be done with a young manager as it did with allan johnston. I also wanted an experienced manager before McCabe was appointed but now that he's here I'm willing to be patient and give him time.

[Diamonds are Forever]

I think our major issue is the balance of the team. Our 5 central players are Watson, Fordyce at the back with Telfer, Frizzell and McCabe in midfield. In possession that is as good as you'll get in this league, which is why we are able to play great football and score some fantastic team goals. The flip side is that is easily the softest, slowest and least physical midfield in the league, and probably the same at centre back (especially Watson or ATS).  The result of this is what we've seen in recent weeks, spells in games where we look great, but spells where teams can walk straight through us. And we've seen that with results this season where we hand out some hammerings but also have been given a few as well. You can afford a bit less physicality in the wider areas but you need a solid core which we just don't have.

Going forward the problem is that to become more solid you have to remove some of your ability to play football, probably by switching one centre back and one centre midfielder for more physical types.

Against the weaker teams in the league we are still able to have enough possession to get results, and those teams don't have the quality that Falkirk and Dunfermline have to punish us. However to get promotion we are going to have to beat one of them and it's difficult to see how we'd manage that at the moment.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Diamonds are Forever

[Jack Reed]

Just now, Diamonds are Forever said:

I think our major issue is the balance of the team. Our 5 central players are Watson, Fordyce at the back with Telfer, Frizzell and McCabe in midfield. In possession that is as good as you'll get in this league, which is why we are able to play great football and score some fantastic team goals. The flip side is that is easily the softest, slowest and least physical midfield in the league, and probably the same at centre back (especially Watson or ATS).  The result of this is what we've seen in recent weeks, spells in games where we look great, but spells where teams can walk straight through us. And we've seen that with results this season where we hand out some hammerings but also have been given a few as well. You can afford a bit less physicality in the wider areas but you need a solid core which we just don't have.

Going forward the problem is that to become more solid you have to remove some of your ability to play football, probablyby switching one centre back and one centre midfielder for more physical types.

Against the weaker teams in the league we are still able to have enough possession to get results, and those teams don't have the quality that Falkirk and Dunfermline have to punish us. However to get promotion we are going to have to beat one of them and it's difficult to see how we'd manage that at the moment.

1 point from pos 9 ,shake up definitely needed now  as we are going to do nothing with this set up ,

[airdrieman]

7 hours ago, Diamonds02 said:

Today was terrible no doubt about it but I'm glad the club don't share some of the short sightedness on this thread. From writing off young players who have played 2 games as 'lowland league level' to wanting a manager (who admittedly can do a job in the short term), but has been around forever, yet never really sustained success at any club. Wouldn't we rather build foundations to sustain success than be in the same situation 2/3 years later?

I think the club are trying to do this which i get is controversial as it means we may suffer in the short term. Unfortunately, this means that we have players that are not ready right now but may be in seasons to come. Equally we have young coaches that are clearly flawed as they are learning on the job, but as they go and get more experienced i believe they'll improve in all areas, which includes recruitment, game management etc.

The appointment of McCabe at the start of the season coupled with the reintroduction of the academy set up, is clearly an indication of a long term project that which is something that excites me as i don't think we've really had that before (hence the decade of consistent failure in this league). 

I completely get how a lot of people just want out of this league asap no matter what, (especially if you are lucky enough to remember much better times) but i have a genuine belief that with this approach we'd have a far better chance of eventually getting out (AND STAYING OUT) of this dreadful league.

f**k a few years. Get out of this league now and then do your long-term planning or projects once you’re in the Championship. It’s surely easier and better to do so as you’ll attract a better calibre of both experienced and young players for the first team and academy simply by dint of being in a better league, with better prize money, and benefiting from increased home crowds and travelling supports and some TV fixtures. 

It’s all academic as we won’t get rid of McCabe until the end of the season at the earliest, and even then I don’t think we will unless the rest of the season is a total disaster. He’s probably doing better than any player-manager has any right to and if we make the play-offs that has to go down as a success. 
 

The problem for me is that this team with McCabe in charge won’t get promoted this season and I don’t trust McCabe to a rebuild and get us promoted next season so the whole thing just feels pointless. 

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 minute ago, Jack Reed said:

1 point from pos 9 ,shake up definitely needed now  as we are going to do nothing with this set up ,

 

Perhaps, but that set-up got us up to the 3rd in the league before these games and I'm very confident that set-up still has enough to get us back into the top 4. 

As I say, it's hard to see how that would get us through the play-offs, but I'm not sure what else we do at the moment. We don't have the players to make the midfield or defence more secure. I think we just do what we've been doing and get into the play-offs and take our chances from there.

[Rhys McCabe Hype Train]

36 minutes ago, G_H said:

This squad is going nowhere fast and are starting to look like a league 2 side.

Behave. Our season isn’t ultimately defined by 3 games against the top two in the league in terms of play and budget. We have a big run of games next before we play them again (QOTS, Kelty, Peterhead, Clyde, Alloa & Montrose) by which time we should really have comfortably secured a play-off berth if we’ve any notion of going up. Last three games are Dunfermline, Falkirk and Edinburgh - a very real prospect we won’t get any points from they games at all to close off the season.

 

[Mr November]

8 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

I think our major issue is the balance of the team. Our 5 central players are Watson, Fordyce at the back with Telfer, Frizzell and McCabe in midfield. In possession that is as good as you'll get in this league, which is why we are able to play great football and score some fantastic team goals. The flip side is that is easily the softest, slowest and least physical midfield in the league, and probably the same at centre back (especially Watson or ATS).  The result of this is what we've seen in recent weeks, spells in games where we look great, but spells where teams can walk straight through us. And we've seen that with results this season where we hand out some hammerings but also have been given a few as well. You can afford a bit less physicality in the wider areas but you need a solid core which we just don't have.

Going forward the problem is that to become more solid you have to remove some of your ability to play football, probably by switching one centre back and one centre midfielder for more physical types.

Against the weaker teams in the league we are still able to have enough possession to get results, and those teams don't have the quality that Falkirk and Dunfermline have to punish us. However to get promotion we are going to have to beat one of them and it's difficult to see how we'd manage that at the moment.

For what it’s worth, I think last seasons team would have struggled similarly against Falkirk and Dunfermline. Last seasons team was better but it was the same issue of lacking something in big games and struggling when not dominating possession. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think they’d have capitulated in quite the same manner in the last two home games, but I’d still fancy them to be below Falkirk and Dunfermline. To be honest, it’s just the same story that we’ve seen for years isn’t it? Just lacking in the big games. It’s more frustrating with this team because there’s rarely a middle ground, they’re almost always calamitous or fantastic.

I think my main concern is that after barely dropping any points at home in the first half of the season, we’ve now lost three home games from winning positions this year. The dropped points away to Kelty and Dunfermline don’t bother me as much but it’s not great that the same issues we’ve seen at times throughout the season are starting to become more apparent now. I still think we’ll make the top four but a big few weeks ahead.

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

40 minutes ago, Passionate said:

 McPake waxing lyrical about us being the best team they have faced walking away with 4 points in his pocket, same with McG lynn blowing smoke up our arse saying how good we are,    we As a club and fanbase  r so naive and gullible ,  time to wisen up FFS....

Exactly this. I think there's more folk on here would rather have the "we play the prettiest football for 30 mins" trophy than the actual league trophy.

Well when we inevitably cement that 4th place, to bottle another run at the playoffs and then lose Frizz, Smith etc closed season it'll be rip it up and start again time.

On 15/02/2023 at 16:42, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

funny feeling we'll pick up 2 points from the next 3 games.

I'm lumping on a draw vs. QOS.

[CapitalDiamond]

In defence of the club….. Falkirk announced a £1.2 million loss last year, they are on track for a £400k loss this year. Anything like that would kill us and yet that’s who we are stuck in a league with.

Even ignoring that historic spend, the match day revenue at both Falkirk and Dunfermline must be 3/4 times what we make and have a massive impact on playing budgets. Unless their “football program” is a shambles (as Falkirk’s had been for a couple of years), then you’d expect them to beat us over a season. That list of league winning managers that was posted, how many of them won the league again teams that were far better resourced financially? Dick Campbell maybe? 

We could all see that we were crying out for a solid centre half and ball winning centre mid ahead of the window, but do we want to gamble with the future of the club when realistically the league was already gone?
 

The sensible play may well be to hope for a play off miracle this year and invest next year if Dunfermline and Falkirk are replaced by the likes of Arbroath, Hamilton and Cove? 

it’s really difficult to watch. Feels unlikely we’ll go up and with Smith, Frizzell etc. likely to be watched by other clubs it might need a rebuild over the summer.

I think the challenge for the club is to work out how we do it without gambling with our existence if we fail. Last year was almost perfect but then a QP team dripping in cash and with Simon Murray finally in form picked our pockets at the last hurdle.

I don’t think that we look like a league 2 side, not many of them Would take the lead in the last 3 games. But our soft centre means this is our level (as squandering those winning positions shows).

The idea that buying the likes of Lachie Byrd and having a youth academy (which isn’t playing at the elite youth level) will get us out of this league I find far fetched, but if the board think it’s the best model given financial constraints then I think we all just need to buckle up and cross our fingers (unless anyone else is sitting on a few million and fancies taking on an unfashionable club).

[Diamonds are Forever]

2 minutes ago, Mr November said:

For what it’s worth, I think last seasons team would have struggled similarly against Falkirk and Dunfermline. Last seasons team was better but it was the same issue of lacking something in big games and struggling when not dominating possession. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think they’d have capitulated in quite the same manner in the last two home games, but I’d still fancy them to be below Falkirk and Dunfermline. To be honest, it’s just the same story that we’ve seen for years isn’t it? Just lacking in the big games. It’s more frustrating with this team because there’s rarely a middle ground, they’re almost always calamitous or fantastic.

I think my main concern is that after barely dropping any points at home in the first half of the season, we’ve now lost three home games from winning positions this year. The dropped points away to Kelty and Dunfermline don’t bother me as much but it’s not great that the same issues we’ve seen at times throughout the season are starting to become more apparent now. I still think we’ll make the top four but a big few weeks ahead.

 

I agree, last year's league was also awful. Apart from Cove and ourselves it was dreadful which is why we were both able to go on long unbeaten runs. We drew 2 and lost 2 to Cove last year who were the equivalent of this year's Dunfermline, scraped through a play-off against Montrose and then lost to QP in the final. The core of the squad have remained and unfortunately whether it's mentality or whether it's just that we are a soft touch we just don't seem to have it when it really matters.

 

[AL-FFC]

11 minutes ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

Exactly this. I think there's more folk on here would rather have the "we play the prettiest football for 30 mins" trophy than the actual league trophy.

Well when we inevitably cement that 4th place, to bottle another run at the playoffs and then lose Frizz, Smith etc closed season it'll be rip it up and start again time.

I'm lumping on a draw vs. QOS.

Actually thought you were one of the best sides we have been up against this season, if anything it was a great advert for league 1 but when you look at how this league is now half the teams were championship sides up till the last few in namely Dunfermline, Alloa, QotS (bear in mind all got the 500k covid grant as well) plus you have lower league ones that have came into the pyramid structure having money chucked at them Kelty, Edinburgh and in the past Queens Park.

You started off bright and after the first goal, thought we were going to be on the wrong end of a doing until we got to grips with it though without being cocky thought we could have had another couple of goals.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by AL-FFC

[Kenny_m]

28 minutes ago, airdrieman said:

The problem for me is that this team with McCabe in charge won’t get promoted this season and I don’t trust McCabe to a rebuild and get us promoted next season so the whole thing just feels pointless. 

If he's not given a reasonable budget then you're probably right but the board drives the bus on this one.

[Diamonds are Forever]

7 minutes ago, CapitalDiamond said:

In defence of the club….. Falkirk announced a £1.2 million loss last year, they are on track for a £400k loss this year. Anything like that would kill us and yet that’s who we are stuck in a league with.

Even ignoring that historic spend, the match day revenue at both Falkirk and Dunfermline must be 3/4 times what we make and have a massive impact on playing budgets. Unless their “football program” is a shambles (as Falkirk’s had been for a couple of years), then you’d expect them to beat us over a season. That list of league winning managers that was posted, how many of them won the league again teams that were far better resourced financially? Dick Campbell maybe? 

We could all see that we were crying out for a solid centre half and ball winning centre mid ahead of the window, but do we want to gamble with the future of the club when realistically the league was already gone?
 

The sensible play may well be to hope for a play off miracle this year and invest next year if Dunfermline and Falkirk are replaced by the likes of Arbroath, Hamilton and Cove? 

it’s really difficult to watch. Feels unlikely we’ll go up and with Smith, Frizzell etc. likely to be watched by other clubs it might need a rebuild over the summer.

I think the challenge for the club is to work out how we do it without gambling with our existence if we fail. Last year was almost perfect but then a QP team dripping in cash and with Simon Murray finally in form picked our pockets at the last hurdle.

I don’t think that we look like a league 2 side, not many of them Would take the lead in the last 3 games. But our soft centre means this is our level (as squandering those winning positions shows).

The idea that buying the likes of Lachie Byrd and having a youth academy (which isn’t playing at the elite youth level) will get us out of this league I find far fetched, but if the board think it’s the best model given financial constraints then I think we all just need to buckle up and cross our fingers (unless anyone else is sitting on a few million and fancies taking on an unfashionable club).

 

Really good post. The last paragraph is the problem in a nutshell. Expecting to produce a youth system which gives us players to get promoted is ridiculous in my opinion, that's just not going to happen. But we've tried all the alternatives in the last decade and they've all failed - part-time, full-time, hybrid, going with youngsters (Ferguson, McIntosh, Stewart, Ryan, Brown era etc), the 'best of the rest approach' under Findlay signing League 1 jobbers.

The bottom line is it comes down to what your budget is and how well you spend it. Our budget is nowhere near what Falkirk and Dunfermline have, and probably less than Queens, Edinburgh and Kelty (or around the same level anyway) so you're always going to be up against it. I'm generally not one for wanting the board to come out and speak, never really care as long as they are doing their job. But in this instance I do think it would be good if they came out said what their plan for getting out the league is. Vague talk of 'building for the future' whilst handing out 6 month contracts to these future stars doesn't add up.

[AL-FFC]

2 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Really good post. The last paragraph is the problem in a nutshell. Expecting to produce a youth system which gives us players to get promoted is ridiculous in my opinion, that's just not going to happen. But we've tried all the alternatives in the last decade and they've all failed - part-time, full-time, hybrid, going with youngsters (Ferguson, McIntosh, Stewart, Ryan, Brown era etc), the 'best of the rest approach' under Findlay signing League 1 jobbers.

The bottom line is it comes down to what your budget is and how well you spend it. Our budget is nowhere near what Falkirk and Dunfermline have, and probably less than Queens, Edinburgh and Kelty (or around the same level anyway) so you're always going to be up against it. I'm generally not one for wanting the board to come out and speak, never really care as long as they are doing their job. But in this instance I do think it would be good if they came out said what their plan for getting out the league is. Vague talk of 'building for the future' whilst handing out 6 month contracts to these future stars doesn't add up.

Need to have a sense of perspective though clubs took a battering through covid where the premiership and Championship clubs were favoured then you have the current cost of living crisis and not to mention outwith Edinburgh most towns and cities need to contend with losing supporters to either side of the arse cheeks through glory hunting or bigotry, which again takes away but playing an attractive brand of football might not win you games it will win you some fans.

We've had so much mismanagement through so called "successful business people" on the board in the past and I like to think the fans we have on board now and changing things behind the scenes and have uncovered some monumental f**k ups that are and in the process of being resolved. I reckon though club and community engagement that would change things the trouble is a lot of it takes money so you are still gambling unless there are grants that can be allocated through SG and council

[Kenny_m]

4 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

I'm generally not one for wanting the board to come out and speak

PH drives the bus and has the biggest impact by far on what league we're in and what our future holds. Everyone should want to hear from him and take an interest in how our club is run as it still rankles me that our fan representative on the board was ditched after a short period of time.

[Kenny_m]

27 minutes ago, AL-FFC said:

Actually thought you were one of the best sides we have been up against this season, if anything it was a great advert for league 1 but when you look at how this league is now half the teams were championship sides up till the last few in namely Dunfermline, Alloa, QotS (bear in mind all got the 500k covid grant as well) plus you have lower league ones that have came into the pyramid structure having money chucked at them Kelty, Edinburgh and in the past Queens Park.

You started off bright and after the first goal, thought we were going to be on the wrong end of a doing until we got to grips with it though without being cocky thought we could have had another couple of goals.  

We've just played the top 2 in our league and had 2 red cards and missed a penalty. That's game defining  moments.

As long as we don't suffer a reaction to this I'm convinced we will easily make the play offs but will struggle to make it through them although I suppose QP fans thought that as well last year.

[Anthony Fitzgerald]

Wouldn’t be too harsh on yourselves. You’re a top 4 League One team and should be fine getting in the playoffs. 

League Two shouts are a nonsense.

No surprise to Airdrie fans but thought Frizzell was excellent on the ball again. A real talent at this level.

You’ve played us at our worst and yesterday played us at our best since we’ve came down. The final league game between our two clubs should be a great encounter.

[CapitalDiamond]

9 minutes ago, Trump said:

Wouldn’t be too harsh on yourselves. You’re a top 4 League One team and should be fine getting in the playoffs. 

League Two shouts are a nonsense.

No surprise to Airdrie fans but thought Frizzell was excellent on the ball again. A real talent at this level.

You’ve played us at our worst and yesterday played us at our best since we’ve came down. The final league game between our two clubs should be a great encounter.

I’d be stunned if Frizz is still with us next year (unless we go up). Cracking player and trying to sign well like we did in getting him feels a far more likely way to progress than developing players who could have the impact he has had. 

[AL-FFC]

42 minutes ago, Kenny_m said:

We've just played the top 2 in our league and had 2 red cards and missed a penalty. That's game defining  moments.

As long as we don't suffer a reaction to this I'm convinced we will easily make the play offs but will struggle to make it through them although I suppose QP fans thought that as well last year.

I think part of your problem is as we have had in the past Telfer is a luxury player that goes hiding too much in games when it counts he isn't up for a scrap when it comes down to it.

[airdrieman]

Watson’s ball watching is unforgivable at that second goal. And why is Euan Deveney at completely the wrong side of the pitch? Donaldson might as well have ran the full length of the park for that third. Every goal a gift, as usual.