The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[Jack Reed]

14 hours ago, Passionate said:

I would think the players could be Mbwyo and Stokes, they are both recruited through an agency called Quorum sports,  made some general enquiries today not related to Airdrie but a now rival club. .   Apparently it is common practice when recruiting players through recruitment companies is that they pay the players a wage and the club and player have a pay per game agreement to top up there wage being subsidised.    A win-win situation for the agency who gets there p!Ayers training facilities  , and game time to possibly get them a move in the next window,  possibly that's why said players haven't being playing ...

 

It is certainly not a situation I think our club should be participating in, if we are trying to get better p!ayers through this setup then we really  need a new scouting and p!ayer recommendation process because it clearly isn't working,    

We made a big thing about this hybrid model mix of Full and Part time players which has limited success,   can we afford the hybrid or are we going back part time,   if you cannot afford allegedly to fund a minimum 18 man squad then we will have to cut our cloth accordingly,  to be fair we have been there before..

Aye you would be looking to see a obvious difference between full and part time players, you certainly would not say any our team look fitter than any team full of part time player we have played against, sometimes the opposite, 

[Diamond10]

15 hours ago, Passionate said:

I would think the players could be Mbwyo and Stokes, they are both recruited through an agency called Quorum sports,  made some general enquiries today not related to Airdrie but a now rival club. .   Apparently it is common practice when recruiting players through recruitment companies is that they pay the players a wage and the club and player have a pay per game agreement to top up there wage being subsidised.    A win-win situation for the agency who gets there p!Ayers training facilities  , and game time to possibly get them a move in the next window,  possibly that's why said players haven't being playing ...

 

It is certainly not a situation I think our club should be participating in, if we are trying to get better p!ayers through this setup then we really  need a new scouting and p!ayer recommendation process because it clearly isn't working,    

We made a big thing about this hybrid model mix of Full and Part time players which has limited success,   can we afford the hybrid or are we going back part time,   if you cannot afford allegedly to fund a minimum 18 man squad then we will have to cut our cloth accordingly,  to be fair we have been there before..

Agreed in league 1 the hybrid model has provided limited success. I’d imagine a lot of the thinking behind it is if we are to get to the championship we could be competitive with the majority being full time sides instead of propping up the table as the part timers tend to do. For what it’s worth, I’ve watched a good few championship games this season and the step up doesn’t look that big to be honest (if you take hearts out the equation). Raith with largely the team of last season who were nothing great last season are second, teams like Alloa , Arbroath , QoS won’t be much better than teams like Falkirk cove Montrose and ourselves. Of course we’d need to get there first .

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

2 hours ago, Diamond10 said:

Raith with largely the team of last season who were nothing great last season are second, teams like Alloa , Arbroath , QoS won’t be much better than teams like Falkirk cove Montrose and ourselves. Of course we’d need to get there first .

With the greatest of respect, I've watched a few Raith games, and they look night and day from the team of last year.

I'd even argue that CONSISTENTLY (not one off games) Montrose are a better outfit than Airdrie ATM (on and off the park), Falkirk and Cove I'll give you.  There's always the shout of "championship isn't that much of a step up", I think that's a total myth tbh and its all about the recruitment.  Alloa, Arbroath and QOS (yes I know we won a pre season game when QOS were all over the shop) but a few key signings looks like they've improved a bit.  

The hybrid model only works when its maybe 8 or 9 good solid full time pros, mixed in with promising youth and maybe a couple of experienced journeyman squad padders, not a load of full time untried youths.

[CapitalDiamond]

Part Time v Full Time is a huge issue for us with the level of support we have.

In my opinion, there’s a level of natural ability with footballers. All the training in the World wouldn’t turn Steve McCormack into a Jimmy Lister.

Developing young players is another minefield as there’s no guarantee a good 19 year old will kick on.

Part of me thinks that Alloa and Arbroath makes it clear that a part time team can compete. We should be able to attract the best part time players in the country.

But then as much as those teams are considerably stronger than us and have been for a good few years, you have to accept at that point that 7th in the championship is probably the ceiling whereas Raith and Ayr have pushed towards the top of that league in recent years.

We need higher crowds though and the takeover hasn’t provided that through home attendances.

[Jack Reed]

2 hours ago, CapitalDiamond said:

Part Time v Full Time is a huge issue for us with the level of support we have.

In my opinion, there’s a level of natural ability with footballers. All the training in the World wouldn’t turn Steve McCormack into a Jimmy Lister.

Developing young players is another minefield as there’s no guarantee a good 19 year old will kick on.

Part of me thinks that Alloa and Arbroath makes it clear that a part time team can compete. We should be able to attract the best part time players in the country.

But then as much as those teams are considerably stronger than us and have been for a good few years, you have to accept at that point that 7th in the championship is probably the ceiling whereas Raith and Ayr have pushed towards the top of that league in recent years.

We need higher crowds though and the takeover hasn’t provided that through home attendances.

Unfortunately to get better crowds  we need the product on the park, we have proved that we can get more crowd and a noisy one in one off games, maybe when we get started we will start putting a run together, we can but wish, 

[Diamond10]

On 18/02/2021 at 12:39, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

With the greatest of respect, I've watched a few Raith games, and they look night and day from the team of last year.

I'd even argue that CONSISTENTLY (not one off games) Montrose are a better outfit than Airdrie ATM (on and off the park), Falkirk and Cove I'll give you.  There's always the shout of "championship isn't that much of a step up", I think that's a total myth tbh and its all about the recruitment.  Alloa, Arbroath and QOS (yes I know we won a pre season game when QOS were all over the shop) but a few key signings looks like they've improved a bit.  

The hybrid model only works when its maybe 8 or 9 good solid full time pros, mixed in with promising youth and maybe a couple of experienced journeyman squad padders, not a load of full time untried youths.

Fair play just an opinion mate . I just thinking having watched some of the games the standard is pretty average and isn’t a lot better than our league and the squads of some of the teams aren’t that great. I Think even ayr and Morton have regressed. And gone are the days of the a strong Falkirk and thistle in there. I just think if we put together a half decent squad and managed to get there one way or another we’d have a better chance staying there than say a few years ago. 
 

I agree we need more quality over quantity and even if that means getting a couple more part timers in then so be it. 

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

12 minutes ago, Diamond10 said:

Fair play just an opinion mate . I just thinking having watched some of the games the standard is pretty average and isn’t a lot better than our league and the squads of some of the teams aren’t that great. I Think even ayr and Morton have regressed. And gone are the days of the a strong Falkirk and thistle in there. I just think if we put together a half decent squad and managed to get there one way or another we’d have a better chance staying there than say a few years ago. 
 

I agree we need more quality over quantity and even if that means getting a couple more part timers in then so be it. 

Absolutely mate and I totally respect that opinion.  Ayr and Raith over the past few years (who I'd consider were recently a very close comparison of clubs our size playing level, history and support size etc) have nailed it in recent years with squad size, a strong manager and a great mix of full time/part time players. IMO the 5-6 year plan at this moment in time should be getting out this division and surviving at least 1 season in the championship, that's where we've failed to capture the lapsed support back, a good season followed by a whimper of a survival "battle" and back to square 1.

[Chapelhall chap]

2 hours ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

 with squad size, a strong manager and a great mix of full time/part time players. IMO the 5-6 year plan at this moment in time should be getting out this division and surviving at least 1 season in the championship, that's where we've failed to capture the lapsed support back, a good season followed by a whimper of a survival "battle" and back to square 1.

I think Alloa and Arbroath have shown also that what you ;point out, is something to emulate. Lets hope we get the chance soon. Cheers

[Jack Reed]

1 hour ago, Chapelhall chap said:

I think Alloa and Arbroath have shown also that what you ;point out, is something to emulate. Lets hope we get the chance soon. Cheers

If it had been the old Broomfield  all would have been different, some folk  don't like moving house, Airdrie just didn't adjust well, 

[Mr November]

It probably doesn't help that over the last five or six years we've been part-time, full-time and now a hybrid but we really need some consistency over the next few years. We've gone from Bollan's solid part-time team on a presumably fairly low budget, the full-time disaster under Wotherspoon which was mostly young players, Findlay's mid-table League One jobbers and now the current hybrid set up. Most teams at this level have a lot of transfer activity every year but I think there's a lot to be said for having some consistency in the squad over a few seasons rather than drastically changing things every summer. I think the next few years are a great chance to build on that.

I think this is probably a bit easier as one of the better part-time teams but Alloa and Abroath are very good examples of having a settled core group of players in your squad every season. Both teams have had a fairly settled squad for the last four or five seasons now which is undoubtedly a big part of their success during that time. Montrose are another good example, slowly building on a proven group of players every year and constantly improving. There's no point keeping players who clearly aren't what we need (I'm not advocating for Thomson or O'Reilly to get new contacts) but I think we should be trying to keep solid professionals like Fordyce, Carrick, Currie, Gallagher, Crighton etc around for the next couple of seasons and trying to build around them. We definitely shouldn't be going completely full-time any time soon, so while we are at least running a hybrid system the aim needs to be being the best part-time team in the country and look to build from there. 

Having a settled group of experienced players who can set standards for the younger players around them can only be a good thing. It's good to have young players like MacDonald, Edwards, potentially Robert and McCann that can come in, play regularly and then move onto bigger clubs but having a settled team around them ensures that we're not left building an entirely new team every summer and waiting until halfway through the season for things to fully click. 

I had hoped we were moving towards that last summer, with the same defence, McKay, Gallagher and Carrick all still here this season but unfortunately it hasn't really worked out, other than Currie, Robert and Connell none of the new signings have really done anything of note and we didn't improve the main problem area in midfield. I don't think we'd have been hugely better off if he was still here but why not keep Kieran Millar for another season and use Josh Kerr as a defender rather than bring in Dean Ritchie and Harlain Mbayo? There's definitely a balance to this as we don't want to keep a full team of guys who have shown they aren't good enough to win promotion but having some consistency would only help us move towards that.

[Chapelhall chap]

19 minutes ago, Jack Reed said:

If it had been the old Broomfield  all would have been different, some folk  don't like moving house, Airdrie just didn't adjust well, 

Interesting point but it's a lot more complicated than that as we all know. Clubs that have moved seamlessly have done fine in general as long as they were prudent. The wanderers like us and Clyde ( though not Hamilton?) have toiled , so maybe Alloa and Arbroath /Montrose staying put did help.   It is all about leadership/ownership and the fans don't really make the decisons, but they provide the crowd resource -win a bit more and people take a chance to come along? How to get the wins is above my pay grade but I reserve the right to moan. If only we had actual games to comment on! Take care

 

[G_H]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6707116/celtic-closing-transfer-race-thomas-robert-airdrie-lennoxtown/

[Mybitchunderprotest]

For anyone who doesn't want to give that scummy fucking rag any clicks this potentially has the same info

https://www.footballinsider247.com/celtic-make-move-to-beat-rangers-to-robert-signing/

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/6707116/celtic-closing-transfer-race-thomas-robert-airdrie-lennoxtown/

[G_H]

1 hour ago, Mybitchunderprotest said:

For anyone who doesn't want to give that scummy fucking rag any clicks this potentially has the same info

https://www.footballinsider247.com/celtic-make-move-to-beat-rangers-to-robert-signing/

They're all scummy rags, adblockers have been around for a while.

[Ballboy]

2 hours ago, Mybitchunderprotest said:

For anyone who doesn't want to give that scummy fucking rag any clicks this potentially has the same info

https://www.footballinsider247.com/celtic-make-move-to-beat-rangers-to-robert-signing/

After all the interviews and articles about him this year it would be disappointing to see him go and be a squad player with either of the ugly sisters.  

His agent as obviously did a good job letting everyone know about his availability after this season.  Profile built up a bit with Tam Rab t-shirts.  After a few games for airdrie in league 1 is he going to be a premier league player next year?  Probably not.   Would be bit disappointed to see him go to any premier league team to sit on the bench. Good luck to the boy though.  Hope he gets the move he wants. 

[CapitalDiamond]

Interesting point but it's a lot more complicated than that as we all know. Clubs that have moved seamlessly have done fine in general as long as they were prudent. The wanderers like us and Clyde ( though not Hamilton?) have toiled , so maybe Alloa and Arbroath /Montrose staying put did help.   It is all about leadership/ownership and the fans don't really make the decisons, but they provide the crowd resource -win a bit more and people take a chance to come along? How to get the wins is above my pay grade but I reserve the right to moan. If only we had actual games to comment on! Take care
 

I agree, St Johnstone moved to McDairmid not that long before our Excelsior move (5 years or so).

Almost identical stadia and having their most successful period ever as a club.

The stadium loses the home advantage Broomfield provided, but we’ve seen very little investment in the team since ‘98 which I think is the biggest factor.

[Chapelhall chap]

1 hour ago, CapitalDiamond said:

 

I agree, St Johnstone moved to McDairmid not that long before our Excelsior move (5 years or so).

Almost identical stadia and having their most successful period ever as a club.

The stadium loses the home advantage Broomfield provided, but we’ve seen very little investment in the team since ‘98 which I think is the biggest factor.

 

Geoff Brown was a much better owner than all the ones we have had but to be fair to the initial Ballantyne period, there would have been no club to follow.  Perth might have been more prepared to support their team. All explored in some of recent OTL fanzines but I still think some good managers would have done better. Hindsight is wonderful but as you say it's money that talks.

[Jack Reed]

1 hour ago, CapitalDiamond said:

 

I agree, St Johnstone moved to McDairmid not that long before our Excelsior move (5 years or so).

Almost identical stadia and having their most successful period ever as a club.

The stadium loses the home advantage Broomfield provided, but we’ve seen very little investment in the team since ‘98 which I think is the biggest factor.

 

St Johnstone  were in a different position, they didn't have to wait years and play their games out of town, 

[airdrieman]

On 15/02/2021 at 17:38, Jack Reed said:

Oh aye, he has team playing well, what team have  you been watching, the performances are dire, never improved for years, still if fans are happy that's the main thing, 

I don't think we're a great team by any means but I don't think we're as bad as you're making out either. We've been a steady play-off side for the two full-but-not-full seasons of Millar/Murray's tenure. As depressing as it is, that's as good as we've been in what, 10 years give or take? It's not that long ago we were getting beat 7-1 by Arbroath and 6-1 by East Fife in the same season, getting beat 5-0 at home by Stenny while conceding 66 goals in total that season or being relegation fodder under Stevie Findlay. We're not where we want or need to be. But importantly, it's also not where we could be or have to be forever. As discussed in this thread the likes of Alloa, Arbroath, Morton, Ayr, QOS and, over a longer period of time Accies, St Johnstone and even Livingston show you what can be done if you get it right on and off the park. I don't agree with every decision they've made or how certain things have been done, but we've got owners who want to and are committed to taking the club to the next level and they've shown that with their backing of Findlay and Murray and Millar. It's in their best interests to make it work and get us to at least the Championship. I am not convinced that Murray is the right man to get us out of this league, but assuming Millar doesn't get replaced, he's got no excuses now. I never bought the argument that Millar picked the team or managed them on a Saturday (and I think if anyone did they'll be in for a shock come the first game back). But it's undeniably Murray's team now which he will rightly live or die by. But overall, I can't see how anyone could argue the club isn't in a better place on and off the park than it was in the slow but sharp decline of the end of the Ballanyne era, the farcical Wotherspoon reign and the circus around Dalziel/Jennow/Aitchison/Findlay before the current takeover. Let's hope for the football to be back soon and, even more so, for some good times ahead. It's long overdue! 

On 15/02/2021 at 23:11, Mr November said:

I think that was Scott McLaughlin on the Pele Podcast a few years ago. The players were contracted to the last game of the regular season so were all out of contact for the play-offs. The story was something along the lines of contracts had to be at least one month long and after the final game the players were asked to sign contracts which were backdated by a couple of weeks so the contracts would only run until the end of the play-offs. The players were understandably annoyed at this and wanted contracts for the full month, which they eventually got but a contract dispute before the biggest games of the season is hardly ideal. I know Ballantyne loved cost-cutting but not contracting players for the play-offs when we'd been in them the previous three seasons is wild. 

The main thing I remember about that game was Steven Canning's handball on the line . Robert Dalzell has a good pic of that here.

 

 

On 16/02/2021 at 12:40, DiamondDownSouth said:

Thanks for posting the link to the photo Mr N - I'm struck by how long ago that feels from seeing the pic!

I wasn't there but wasn't that also the game in which we had a goal ruled out where the ball hit the bar and crossed the line?

I know this sort of thing gets said a lot but the referee and the linesmen must have literally been the only people in the ground not to have seen Canning SAVE that shot and McLaughlin(?)'s shot cross the line. I don't think we were even that bothered at the time about losing because of A) we would have lost the final anyway and B) the general apathy around the club and that team at the time. But no doubt it's frustrating when it's one of those rare occasions where you can genuinely pinpoint a defeat on the match officials. That main stand side linesman went on to be one of the linesmen at that season's Scottish Cup final btw  

On 16/02/2021 at 18:59, Passionate said:

Ok he's not pr olific in the goal scoring is his stats any worse than Ally Roy when he was signed or stokes ,O Reilly or Thomson..

 

If hypothetically McKay senior was looking to invest heavily in the club, but we have to take the hit with Paul and Jack being part of the playing squad,  would you accept it....  If hypothetically of course Jack McKay was signed behind the back of Stuart Millar would you reckon that could be a catalyst for his shock resignation...........

I think it's true that Jack McKay isn't really any worse than Roy, Stokes, O'Reilly or Thomson. But he's not any better either and I don't believe for a second that Millar and Murray don't think or know that as well. Which is where the frustration comes from myself and presumably others. Apart from Thomson, the other three players were at least a bit of a gamble and/or an unknown quantity. We already know Jack McKay is pish. I can accept a little bit of filler in League 1 or a punt in the hope that somebody that exceeds expectations but we're not good enough this season to be carrying the aforementioned 4 + Jack McKay as well. 

[Jack Reed]

45 minutes ago, airdrieman said:

I don't think we're a great team by any means but I don't think we're as bad as you're making out either. We've been a steady play-off side for the two full-but-not-full seasons of Millar/Murray's tenure. As depressing as it is, that's as good as we've been in what, 10 years give or take? It's not that long ago we were getting beat 7-1 by Arbroath and 6-1 by East Fife in the same season, getting beat 5-0 at home by Stenny while conceding 66 goals in total that season or being relegation fodder under Stevie Findlay. We're not where we want or need to be. But importantly, it's also not where we could be or have to be forever. As discussed in this thread the likes of Alloa, Arbroath, Morton, Ayr, QOS and, over a longer period of time Accies, St Johnstone and even Livingston show you what can be done if you get it right on and off the park. I don't agree with every decision they've made or how certain things have been done, but we've got owners who want to and are committed to taking the club to the next level and they've shown that with their backing of Findlay and Murray and Millar. It's in their best interests to make it work and get us to at least the Championship. I am not convinced that Murray is the right man to get us out of this league, but assuming Millar doesn't get replaced, he's got no excuses now. I never bought the argument that Millar picked the team or managed them on a Saturday (and I think if anyone did they'll be in for a shock come the first game back). But it's undeniably Murray's team now which he will rightly live or die by. But overall, I can't see how anyone could argue the club isn't in a better place on and off the park than it was in the slow but sharp decline of the end of the Ballanyne era, the farcical Wotherspoon reign and the circus around Dalziel/Jennow/Aitchison/Findlay before the current takeover. Let's hope for the football to be back soon and, even more so, for some good times ahead. It's long overdue! 

 

I know this sort of thing gets said a lot but the referee and the linesmen must have literally been the only people in the ground not to have seen Canning SAVE that shot and McLaughlin(?)'s shot cross the line. I don't think we were even that bothered at the time about losing because of A) we would have lost the final anyway and B) the general apathy around the club and that team at the time. But no doubt it's frustrating when it's one of those rare occasions where you can genuinely pinpoint a defeat on the match officials. That main stand side linesman went on to be one of the linesmen at that season's Scottish Cup final btw  

I think it's true that Jack McKay isn't really any worse than Roy, Stokes, O'Reilly or Thomson. But he's not any better either and I don't believe for a second that Millar and Murray don't think or know that as well. Which is where the frustration comes from myself and presumably others. Apart from Thomson, the other three players were at least a bit of a gamble and/or an unknown quantity. We already know Jack McKay is pish. I can accept a little bit of filler in League 1 or a punt in the hope that somebody that exceeds expectations but we're not good enough this season to be carrying the aforementioned 4 + Jack McKay as well. 

Out of the signing's at the start of the season Sabatini  seemed to be the best, for the first few games anyway, do you think being dropped to bench  contributed to a loss of form, maybe a player worth sticking with, just a thought ,