The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[G_H]

Edinburgh City in the Scottish Cup, hopefully better than last time around

[Chapelhall chap]

3 hours ago, CapitalDiamond said:

Evan Balfour is the next volunteer for the podcast Ex-Player Interview. Anything you’d all like him to be questioned on?

1 What was like to score that goal against Raith?

2 How did PT as Fireman ( I think) match with FT players

3 Who would he have liked to see Airdrie sign during his time?

4 What  did he think of John Martin's various press photos?

5 Did he have favourite grounds/ horrible grounds?

6 In Player profiles they were always asked their favourite meal-have his tastes changed!

 

[Roger Thornhill]

4 hours ago, CapitalDiamond said:

Evan Balfour is the next volunteer for the podcast Ex-Player Interview. Anything you’d all like him to be questioned on?

Thanks for the opportunity. 

Evan played under Jimmy Bone and Alex MacDonald. What were the big managerial differences between Jimmy and Doddie? And can Evan shed any light on why Jimmy left after getting us promotion? 

35 minutes ago, Chapelhall chap said:

1 What was like to score that goal against Raith?

2 How did PT as Fireman ( I think) match with FT players

3 Who would he have liked to see Airdrie sign during his time?

4 What  did he think of John Martin's various press photos?

5 Did he have favourite grounds/ horrible grounds?

6 In Player profiles they were always asked their favourite meal-have his tastes changed!

 

Chapelhall Chap,

Last game of the season against Raith in May 1991 - think we had to win to get promoted in 2nd place? I know it was close between us and Dundee. Anyway, the longest football game in my life. It seemed to go on forever. But what scenes and jubilation at the final whistle. Did big Evan not score around the first 5 minutes of the game?

 

[ATLIS]

20 hours ago, GoalForAirdrie said:

Couldn’t really complain with that tbh!

To be fair though the fee would only be something like 10-30k but the obvious implication like with QotS/Dykes is that once he goes the main fee comes from sell on. I think QotS had a 15/20% on Dykes so ended up as a 200k deal. Weirdly enough Dykes broke our transfer fee paid and received in the same day basically

[Chapelhall chap]

1 hour ago, Roger Thornhill said:

Thanks for the opportunity. 

Evan played under Jimmy Bone and Alex MacDonald. What were the big managerial differences between Jimmy and Doddie? And can Evan shed any light on why Jimmy left after getting us promotion? 

Chapelhall Chap,

Last game of the season against Raith in May 1991 - think we had to win to get promoted in 2nd place? I know it was close between us and Dundee. Anyway, the longest football game in my life. It seemed to go on forever. But what scenes and jubilation at the final whistle. Did big Evan not score around the first 5 minutes of the game?

 

You are correct and I was in the ground in plenty of time: if memory is correct we were in what is now the home stand behind the goals, but I seem to think it was terracing but I could be wrong. It might even have been 3 minutes and I know there were still fans outside. I would need to look up some of the old OTL in my loft to check a few details.  It was a long wait till we were sure we had finished 2nd and were up. The other occasion i remember such jubilation was when John Butler scored a last minute winner at Somerset. I like your questions but the light being shone on Bone's departure might a bit too "costly" to debate? 

[Chapelhall chap]

May 11th 1991. We were a point ahead of Dundee and had to equal whatever they did. They won 2-1 at Hamilton and might have finished before our game, so the transistor radios were in hot action.  

[Ayr Diamond]

1 hour ago, Chapelhall chap said:

May 11th 1991. We were a point ahead of Dundee and had to equal whatever they did. They won 2-1 at Hamilton and might have finished before our game, so the transistor radios were in hot action.  

Hamilton were 1 up before our game kicked off.

[AB1974]

3 hours ago, ATLIS said:

To be fair though the fee would only be something like 10-30k but the obvious implication like with QotS/Dykes is that once he goes the main fee comes from sell on. I think QotS had a 15/20% on Dykes so ended up as a 200k deal. Weirdly enough Dykes broke our transfer fee paid and received in the same day basically

Not sure why any club would want to pay a fee and loan back when player will be free to sign a pre contract agreement in January.

[ATLIS]

1 hour ago, AB1974 said:

Not sure why any club would want to pay a fee and loan back when player will be free to sign a pre contract agreement in January.

Basically a small fee to fight off other clubs. If we get it done now and he has a cracking season from January onwards he can't just go sign a contract elsewhere. 

You'd get clubs unwilling to pay even a token fee just expecting to snap him up once his contract is up instead Livi can just jump in, negotiate with Airdrie and get to the front of the queue. Obviously Airdrie would ask him to take/talk up a deal with Livi if the deal if they're getting something instead of nothing

[AB1974]

43 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Basically a small fee to fight off other clubs. If we get it done now and he has a cracking season from January onwards he can't just go sign a contract elsewhere. 

You'd get clubs unwilling to pay even a token fee just expecting to snap him up once his contract is up instead Livi can just jump in, negotiate with Airdrie and get to the front of the queue. Obviously Airdrie would ask him to take/talk up a deal with Livi if the deal if they're getting something instead of nothing

You,  or any club, could  'get it done now' by agreeing a deal directly with the player (if the aim is to sign him for next season). If he signs a pre contract agreement, surely he can't sign a contract elsewhere? 

No need to involve Airdrie.The player will decide where he goes next.

 

[ATLIS]

1 hour ago, AB1974 said:

You,  or any club, could  'get it done now' by agreeing a deal directly with the player (if the aim is to sign him for next season). If he signs a pre contract agreement, surely he can't sign a contract elsewhere? 

No need to involve Airdrie.The player will decide where he goes next.

 

In Scotland you can, there’s an issue in Scottish law where the contract doesn’t become legal until the day you begin working. You can sign a precontract but it doesn’t become true until the day, you can cancel it at any point. 
 

If we agreed a deal with him and Celtic come in and offer him double it in February, he can cancel the deal with us and go with theirs - which can’t happen with the January deal.

 

Only time we had an issue with it was Callum Elliot signing for us in February as a precontract, it was announced and everything and then in about April I think it was Raith that announced him, we took it to court to make them pay a fee but lost due to the Scottish law about it 

[Aidan]

In Scotland you can, there’s an issue in Scottish law where the contract doesn’t become legal until the day you begin working. You can sign a precontract but it doesn’t become true until the day, you can cancel it at any point. 
 
If we agreed a deal with him and Celtic come in and offer him double it in February, he can cancel the deal with us and go with theirs - which can’t happen with the January deal.
 
Only time we had an issue with it was Callum Elliot signing for us in February as a precontract, it was announced and everything and then in about April I think it was Raith that announced him, we took it to court to make them pay a fee but lost due to the Scottish law about it 

I'm sure if someone tags Skyline Drifter he'll be able to explain the full details but from what I understand it's not simply a case of "pre contracts aren't legally binding" it all depends on the actual terms that are agreed at the time. Can't find anything about the Callum Elliot deal that says Livingston took Raith to court, only that Livingston couldn't be arsed dragging it out so they were agreeing to cancel the deal, also don't see why Ross County would have paid St Johnstone a fee to cancel Richard Brittain's deal if they didn't have to?

[G_H]

12 hours ago, ATLIS said:

To be fair though the fee would only be something like 10-30k but the obvious implication like with QotS/Dykes is that once he goes the main fee comes from sell on. I think QotS had a 15/20% on Dykes so ended up as a 200k deal. Weirdly enough Dykes broke our transfer fee paid and received in the same day basically

I would hope that we would be aiming for more than 10% sell on if the initial transfer fee was that paltry.

[++Ammo - Airdrie++]

9 hours ago, AB1974 said:

You,  or any club, could  'get it done now' by agreeing a deal directly with the player (if the aim is to sign him for next season). If he signs a pre contract agreement, surely he can't sign a contract elsewhere? 

No need to involve Airdrie.The player will decide where he goes next.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but is a "pre contract agreement"  not just a verbal accepting to move clubs that could basically be reneged (sp?) On, and has been done in the past with players? If a small fee was agreed then that becomes binding and Livi guarantee to get their man.

could be wrong but that's my understanding of it.

Edited December 30, 2020 by ++Ammo - Airdrie++

[Ayr Diamond]

I dont think fans have a grasp of this situation regarding Sabatini and Robert they are not Airdrie's players they play for Airdrie but a owned by there agents who have gave Airdrie the chance to play for them any transfer fee will go to them with a percentage given to the club.

[AndyDD]

31 minutes ago, Ayr Diamond said:

I dont think fans have a grasp of this situation regarding Sabatini and Robert they are not Airdrie's players they play for Airdrie but a owned by there agents who have gave Airdrie the chance to play for them any transfer fee will go to them with a percentage given to the club.

Sabatini is on loan from Dnipro, so he's not in the same boat as Robert. 

Any scenario that sees Robert move on after playing out the rest of the season with us is fine by me. After that, I can't pretend I really care much. 

[CapitalDiamond]

I dont think fans have a grasp of this situation regarding Sabatini and Robert they are not Airdrie's players they play for Airdrie but a owned by there agents who have gave Airdrie the chance to play for them any transfer fee will go to them with a percentage given to the club.

I don’t think that’s correct. Third party ownership is a big no no as far as I’m aware. Also Sabatini is Dnipro’s player and on loan to us.

Agree with you though that the agency relationships are key in all this. Sabatini and Stokes are both from the same agency in Ireland. Robert with Mark McKay. The players could move agent at any time.

I think it’s more likely that the agencies have encouraged the players to go to Airdrie with a view on getting game time and they’ll make them make their money if a bigger move comes along. Looks good I the case of Robert, possible with Griffin but Stokes needs to get in the team and impress.

[AB1974]

2 hours ago, ++Ammo - Airdrie++ said:

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but is a "pre contract agreement"  not just a verbal accepting to move clubs that could basically be reneged (sp?) On, and has been done in the past with players? If a small fee was agreed then that becomes binding and Livi guarantee to get their man.

could be wrong but that's my understanding of it.

I don't know either lol. Assumed it would be legally binding contract. You often hear that a player has signed a pre contract agreement.

Regardless, Airdrie will not be involved in any negotiations. As Ayr diamond says, we are benefiting from his services, but we don't own him.

[ATLIS]

5 hours ago, G_H said:

I would hope that we would be aiming for more than 10% sell on if the initial transfer fee was that paltry.

10% for QotS on Dykes could eventually end up at about 250,000 which is huge. We’ve shown we can move players on for 1m+ 
 

On 3rd party ownership, I’m sure that was made illegal in Europe at some point but he may have a cancel clause in his contract where he can just walk away at any time (We have one with Efe Ambrose).

[ATLIS]

@Skyline Drifter Any idea on what the actual legality is on pre contracts?