The Official Airdrieonians Thread - 2019/20 and beyond

[DiamondOwl]

2 minutes ago, DiamondJack85 said:

Why should he keep players if he doesnt rate them? Theres no room for sentiment in young players coming through...ultimately if they're not good enough then I'd rather find players who are, no matter where they come from. Stewart and Edward's have both had a fair crack at proving their worth and for me neither showed they were good enough.

He doesn't need to keep anyone he doesn't rate. It just seems to me that unless he has signed them he doesn't rate them. He comes across as a bit of a control freak - can't bear to think that anything worthwhile was going on before he arrived.

[airdrieman]

On 11/07/2019 at 21:04, Moon said:

Whatever happened to Andrew Barrowman? When he came in it seemed that all he needed was a bit of fitness and he'd be pushing in to the first team, but barely heard anything since.

He was one of the few reserve players from last season; along with Robbie Leighton, Patrick Pyott and Andy McNeil to either sign a new contract or contract extension. Would imagine he'll be in the reserves initially but if there's anything about him then he might feature at some point. 

On 12/07/2019 at 09:21, Diamond Oracle said:

 

Kyle MacDonald as well. He came with a good reputation but hasn’t featured in any of our preseason squads.

I assume he is injured as he appears to be the only natural right back in the squad, so you’d think he’d at least feature on the bench.

 

The match preview for the Thistle game said he was injured but expected to be back in training this week. 

On 12/07/2019 at 20:01, marco44 said:

Kyle Wilkie has signed for Annan Ath.
Do you think he will be a signing for us.

Can only echo what other posters have said previously. He was our best midfielder last season and when he played well,and we played through him, the team as a whole played well. He scored 7 goals, which isn't a bad return for a midfielder, and I believe we didn't lose a game he scored in which is a probably a good indicator of his influence over games. The one black mark against him, as others have mentioned though is his fitness. He's prone to picking up knocks and as a result can be missing for one or two weeks. He also seems to be lacking in general fitness. He could fade badly, and early, in games and once that happened you were as well playing with ten men. His best position is as a #10 which should limit the amount of running he has to do. I thought he'd be a good signing for most teams in League 1 so he'll be more than capable of doing well in League 2. Best of luck to him. 

On 15/07/2019 at 10:34, Moon said:

the club have just wished Scott Gallacher a happy birthday on Facebook, I had no idea he was still with us.

I struggle to remember at times too. I assume he must still be injured hence why we signed Willison. Obviously must be a serious injury and long recovery process. Poor guy. 

On 16/07/2019 at 12:08, Stellaboz said:

What are we getting with Josh Edwards? Left back that's all I know

I really liked him. Only 18, and you can see he's still very raw, but he's a good defender and good positionally for his age. Good engine too and can get up and down the park. His final ball can be erratic but he did set up a few goals for us last season and, like every other aspect of his game, I think it can and will get better with more coaching. I'm sad to see him go but if we get some money and he gets to play at a higher level then you can't argue with that. Could prove to be a shrewd bit of business too in the end if Smith ends up banging in the goals for us. Here's hoping. 

6 hours ago, DiamondOwl said:

Not true Jonathan Page (my hero!) is still there. I hope he doesn't go anywhere and continues to get well paid. If Murray doesn't want to use him, that's up to him. 

I agree 100%  and said as much a few pages back. These players have been poorly treated and as you can see I'm cheering on Page for sticking with his contract and not allowing himself to be bullied out the door.

I hope I'm wrong and will be delighted if I am, but I've got no time at all for Murray and the way he's been running things. Now I see Edwards is away, obviously we aren't going to try and produce and bring on our own young players. We have Murray's constant defensive attitude - so he signs a striker and in the first competitive game, plays him at right wing back. Doesn't play Dean Hawkshaw despite the fact he's the most creative player we've got. Seems to want lots of pace in the team but has very few that can finish and makes the spearhead of his attack someone who hardly scores any goals. Cammy Russell looked really hungry in pre-season but didn't get into the first team. Probably he'll be the next one out the door, as he has already been out on loan and was a youngster under the previous regime,  which in Murray's eyes seems to make you surplus to requirements. The difference in Scott Stewart after Murray came in was very noticeable and not in a positive way. I have yet to see a player improve under Murray. Stewart and Edwards went very obviously backwards.

This is not a knee-jerk reaction, I was in favour of giving Murray a go in the first place, and as I said will be delighted if I'm wrong, but last season was the first one, in over 35 years of watching Airdrie, that I hardly watched any games after the turn of the year. When I watched us beat Stranraer  3-0 (on 29th Dec) and was bored out my skull I realised Murray's brand of football was not for me. Came along to the Albion Rovers game and was unimpressed again. Even when we're winning ,we're playing not to lose. This negative stuff is  just not entertaining.  I don't live in or close to the town any more and so I started going along to watch my local junior team and couldn't believe how  much more I was enjoying it.   I  have been listening to some of the old OTL podcasts this afternoon and found myself agreeing with everything Alan Porteous said. Murray would be great if we wanted to stay up in the championship, but I seriously doubt he's the man to get us there. 

Page is perfectly entitled to his wage and/or a fair payoff should another club come in for him. The club seem to be paying his wage so I don't see what the issue is. He's not entitled to game time just because he's still employed at the club. I don't think he or Conroy have been poorly treated at all. (Conroy obviously got an amicable payoff as did the others on the transfer list). They've hardly been bullied out the door have they? if any of us were as poor at our job as they were we'd be hunted out the door too but unlike Page or Conroy we wouldn't walk into the exact same job at an equivalent level. Insinuating that Murray should play him even though it's established he's fucking gash or saying that you hope he stays rather than find a new club is bizarre. 

Murray made last year's team of nondescript jobbers better than they were under Findlay. That's fact. Yes, it wasn't pretty but he made them solid, organised and hard to beat which is half the battle at this level. It's all well and good saying we weren't entertaining but realistically who in last season's team was going to provide that? Joao was a one month wonder and Wilkie was gassed by half-time most weeks. Hawkshaw looks a player but he didn't come into the team until almost the end of the season. There was no other player that could realistically the provide the sort of skill or creativity that we're after. This year's time already looks better in that regard (if maybe a little toothless). 

Murray's now unequivocally built his own team. He should be judged based on how that team perform this season. 

I do think the team on Saturday was a little defensive but I assume/hope that was due to us playing a team from the league above and it won't reflect the starting XI once the league season starts. I hope Gallagher plays through the middle and I'd like to see Roberts and Hawkshaw on from the start too. Hopefully Smith can do the business. And besides, I wouldn't read too much into team selection, formations or even results from pre-season and the League Cup anyway. It's never a reflection on how the league will go (although it would be nice to do reasonably well). 

 

2 hours ago, Diamonds Are Red said:

How are we not producing and bringing on young players when you see the ages of our squad for this season? What a great opportunity they have in front of them! 

Edwards was signed from Crosshouse Boys Club and if you had told him back then he would be in the Airdrie 1st team, playing at Parkead in a Scottish Cup tie then moving to a Championship club - all within a few years, he would have been delighted at that prospect. The club have also received a nominal sum for him.

Stewart may have moved to Arbroath but the chance for him to shine in the Championship is a good one for him. 

Players will come and go - some will make it, others won't - but the notion that the club doesn't have an interest or develop youth is incorrect.

 

TBH I think it's a total nonsense to say Airdrie don't care about developing youth. This season alone we've signed, what, half a dozen of our own youth players to full-time contracts? One of whom was on the bench on Saturday at only 16/17. As well as receiving fees for Scott Stewart (who made 150 odd first team appearances) and Edwards. Two seasons ago we received a fee for Rohan Ferguson and further back we've got fees for Tony Watt, Jordan Allan and Liam Coogans. Not to mention there's been a plethora of youth players in and around the first team the last few seasons. Cammy Russell, Sean McIntosh, Dean Cairns and Chris O'Neil have all been first team regulars. Robbie Leighton has been around the first team squad for years now and then you've got guys too like John Higgins, Murray Louden and others who weren't good enough to make a sustained impact in the team but who at least can say they played a handful of games of professional football. I'm sure there will be others too, these are just examples off the top of my head. If you cast your mind back to Boyle's team, a good portion of them were Airdrie youth players too. I don't know how we compare with other teams but I reckon Airdrie must be one of the best lower-league teams in Scotland in terms of chances for young players to progress into the first team.

Edited July 17, 2019 by airdrieman

[airdrieman]

Just now, DiamondOwl said:

He doesn't need to keep anyone he doesn't rate. It just seems to me that unless he has signed them he doesn't rate them. He comes across as a bit of a control freak - can't bear to think that anything worthwhile was going on before he arrived.

He didn't sign Hutton, Crighton, O'Neil and Leighton McIntosh (both of whom he wanted to keep), Scott Gallacher, Robbie Leighton, Arran Ross, Carrick or Cammy Russell?

[DiamondOwl]

1 minute ago, airdrieman said:

He didn't sign Hutton, Crighton, O'Neil and Leighton McIntosh (both of whom he wanted to keep), Scott Gallacher, Robbie Leighton, Arran Ross, Carrick or Cammy Russell?

Okay there's a smattering of players left, but very few young players. Prediction: Cammy Russell will be next to leave.

[airdrieman]

2 minutes ago, DiamondOwl said:

Okay there's a smattering of players left, but very few young players. Prediction: Cammy Russell will be next to leave.

Apart from McNeil, Leighton, Russell and the half dozen or so others signed on full-time contracts? 

[DiamondJack85]

10 minutes ago, DiamondOwl said:

Okay there's a smattering of players left, but very few young players. Prediction: Cammy Russell will be next to leave.

We signed 4 youngsters from the academy and 4 from the reserves on full time contracts so hardly very few. 

Hopefully Cammy Russell will leave on loan...with Roy, Carrick, Gallagher and Smith all in front of him then he's going to struggle to get game time. I think he's got a good chance of breaking into the first team in the near future but he could really do with a loan spell in League 2 to gain more experience.

[DiamondOwl]

1 minute ago, DiamondJack85 said:

We signed 4 youngsters from the academy and 4 from the reserves on full time contracts so hardly very few. 

Hopefully Cammy Russell will leave on loan...with Roy, Carrick, Gallagher and Smith all in front of him then he's going to struggle to get game time. I think he's got a good chance of breaking into the first team in the near future but he could really do with a loan spell in League 2 to gain more experience.

Okay, let me be more specific. I'm referring to young players who were there under the old regime and had some first team game time. He's getting rid of them all.

That's why Cammy Russell is the next one Murray will seek to offload ( perhaps on loan). I would like to see him stay as I would rather he was playing than Gallagher or Carrick based on what I've seen in pre-season.

[DiamondJack85]

8 minutes ago, DiamondOwl said:

Okay, let me be more specific. I'm referring to young players who were there under the old regime and had some first team game time. He's getting rid of them all.

That's why Cammy Russell is the next one Murray will seek to offload ( perhaps on loan). I would like to see him stay as I would rather he was playing than Gallagher or Carrick based on what I've seen in pre-season.

Yes because to be brunt they're not good enough. The likes of Stewart, Edward's, Cairns and McIntosh didn't show me anything to suggest they were worth keeping. For me, not one of them would have got into the first team this year. 

Think suggesting that Murray is blatantly getting rid of these players because he didn't sign them is very unfair, the club has been needing a clear out for years and it's been refreshing to see the decks being cleared.

[Rio 2]

9 hours ago, DiamondOwl said:

Okay, supporters should have no say in their clubs, not be told anything re the club finances

Leave it to the big boys in the boardroom and keep your nose out. Well at least we all know where you stand!

If you are a shareholder, then you can attend the AGM and get all the information you need. A business doesn't give weekly updates on their finances.

As a fan, you have the option to withdraw your support if you disagree with the way the club is being run!

[DiamondOwl]

54 minutes ago, Rio 2 said:

If you are a shareholder, then you can attend the AGM and get all the information you need. A business doesn't give weekly updates on their finances.

As a fan, you have the option to withdraw your support if you disagree with the way the club is being run!

I wasn't looking for weekly updates. Just an amount the club is receiving for players.

When you can get the figure for property transactions online within a month or so, it doesn't seem unreasonable that football clubs should publish the amounts that players are bought and sold for. They are somewhat different types of businesses after all. They almost always used to make these fees public.  But I do accept this is  not a legal requirement.

Withdrawing support is easier said than done - many of us are addicted! However, as I've previously stated I don't buy a season ticket any more and am attending less and less games. 

[Passionate]

10 hours ago, Rio 2 said:

It's got he haw to do with you, how much they got! They are not under contract to you, and you don't pay their wages.

Do you go around telling everybody your accounts?

To be fair our accounts and finances were splattered all over social media a couple of years back, when T  W backed out,  you must remember the Supporters meeting being beamed live.

[Tulloch Gorum]

Chucking a spadge (as my wee brother's pals used to say) about not finding out about a nominal fee is just looking for things to be annoyed about.  Most clubs do it these days, it's pretty standard.  I just hope we've got a sell-on clause there so we can get a penny or two should Edwards turn out to be as good as looked when he first broke into the team and gets another move to a bigger club.

As for Stewart, I liked him and would have been happy to see him stay at Airdrie.  But let's not kid ourselves that we've lost a superstar here: he was a core part of several squads that have consistently finished mid-table in the third tier. 

[Mybitchunderprotest]

The issue I have is the way these players have been treated. They were, as Conroy suggests (although I am certainly no fan of Conroy!), being marginalised. Treated persona non grata. Page is “my hero” because he has refused to be forced out. If the club won’t buy him out his contract or make good his loses, he’s not going anywhere. That is something I applaud, as IMO a bullying ‘get lost’ attitude is unacceptable in all workplaces.

 

Of course the players that Murray doesn't want and who were still under contract are being marginalised, that's because they weren't (aren't) wanted. Make them aware that they have no place in the plans of the manager and that they should seek employment elsewhere. That way they get a move and the club won't have to pay up the full terms of the contract although dependent on where they go some compensation may have to be offered. I'd rather the club didn't have to use the limited finances available on paying off contracts where possible. If Page is happy to get paid a wage with no prospect of game time then that's entirely up to him and if he chose that option I'd be happy to see him further marginalised. If he doesn't set a foot on the field this season it will be good for my overall health as I was having at least one heart issue per match that he was on the ball.

None of this is bullying, the players were still welcome at training and able to keep their fitness up, just told that they didn't feature on the managers plans. I'd actually say that such honesty is the opposite of bullying.

[She who dares gins]

Chucking a spadge (as my wee brother's pals used to say) about not finding out about a nominal fee is just looking for things to be annoyed about.  Most clubs do it these days, it's pretty standard.  I just hope we've got a sell-on clause there so we can get a penny or two should Edwards turn out to be as good as looked when he first broke into the team and gets another move to a bigger club.  As for Stewart, I liked him and would have been happy to see him stay at Airdrie.  But let's not kid ourselves that we've lost a superstar here: he was a core part of several squads that have consistently finished mid-table in the third tier.      

 

 

Spot on - this is the clearing out of a collective that has, I’d argue, underperformed for years. We have a strange habit of elevating players above their ability when they leave - after spending season after season frustrated at our lack of progression.

 

We were promised a root and branch clear out, we’ve got that and I don’t think any babies are being thrown out with the bath water here.

[DiamondOwl]

It's all about opinions as they say....

I agree a clear out was necessary, but I would have kept Stewart & Edwards. Thomson who seems to be the replacement for Stewart looks a far poorer player IMO.

Good to see this forum moving again!

[Kenny_m]

Struggling to comprehend people slating Josh Edwards, a guy who's just turned 19 with 30 odd professional games under his belt. Any guy who can get in a first team at 17 must have something.

(Post to be revisited in 2 years time)

[NorthernDiamond]

It's all about opinions as they say....
I agree a clear out was necessary, but I would have kept Stewart & Edwards. Thomson who seems to be the replacement for Stewart looks a far poorer player IMO.
Good to see this forum moving again!

A "far poorer player"? Having watched the friendlies and league cup game Thomson has looked like a talent giving defences a lot of problems with his pace. If Stewart wanted to leave and the club could make a bit of cash then why keep him? As much as I liked him he wasn't exactly establishing himself as a crucial player.

[DiamondOwl]

4 minutes ago, NorthernDiamond said:

A "far poorer player"? Having watched the friendlies and league cup game Thomson has looked like a talent giving defences a lot of problems with his pace. If Stewart wanted to leave and the club could make a bit of cash then why keep him? As much as I liked him he wasn't exactly establishing himself as a crucial player.

Disagree about Thomson. Haven't been impressed so far.

Stewart was a crucial player the season before last - he was often captain and was one of  our best players. Then Ian Murray arrived..... 

[Tory Boy]

2 hours ago, DiamondOwl said:

Disagree about Thomson. Haven't been impressed so far.

Stewart was a crucial player the season before last - he was often captain and was one of  our best players. Then Ian Murray arrived..... 

 

 

I think you're looking through rose tinted glasses. Stewart was on poor run of form, which had led to him being in and out of the team in the weeks leading up to Murray taking over.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Tory Boy

[airdrie88]

1 hour ago, DiamondOwl said:

It's all about opinions as they say....

I agree a clear out was necessary, but I would have kept Stewart & Edwards. Thomson who seems to be the replacement for Stewart looks a far poorer player IMO.

Good to see this forum moving again!

Don't know how you can say he looks a far poorer player after 1 competitive game against a team from the league above and imo he done well. Looks quicker more skillfull and hopefully has a final ball. Scott Stewart was one of the most overrated players in recent years he always tried 100% put in a  good tackle now and then. His final ball and finishing was terrible 9 times out not 10. We have had far better players over the years get hounded by fans but he seemed to be a favourite because he tried. Cookie and strenny ripped him apart for 90mins up there and so did many other players.