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Would you like to see your club join the Pyramid?

Pyramid Yes or No  

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I dunno - look at last year in the East...Linlithgow and Bo'ness, two of the traditional big hitters were two  of the last to make up their minds. It's understandable that some of the bigger names will be the ones most satisfied with the status quo - they're winning something most years and perhaps don't see any need for change. Like last year, it may be when the bigger clubs eventually realise they're going to be left with hardly anyone to play that they take the plunge...don't forget it was little Dalkeith Thistle that started it all off out East...
In a case where there will be no orderly transition, another driver in many cases will be clubs waiting for their traditional rivals to blink first...for example if Pollok go, I'm sure Arthurlie will be away too before long and vice versa. Same deal with Kilwinning and Medda...if either of those two go, chances are the other one would follow along with the likes of Largs and Troon more than likely.
I really hope it doesn't have to happen that way though.

Good post.

I think we are still on a path that ends in the creation of a WoS league(in some form) and a who blinks first scenario as you describe. LL2 might be the first domino to fall and start it all off.

It ain't ideal as you say, but agreement on anything more organised is impossible with the current regime in charge of negotiations IMO.

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Think LL2 is meant to break the logjam over how to deal with the ERSJFA by starting another chain reaction domino effect on entry applications in the west like the one we saw unfold in the east last year.

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The decision rests solely with each clubs management and committee for me. If a club wishes to join the pyramid then they do so, if they choose to remain junior, they do so. I have said all along that clubs should not be forced into it, I just hope that clubs make an informed decision and weigh up pros and cons of both staying and moving. If the decision comes down to a simple loyalty to a supposed grade of football then, for me anyway, it wouldn't be a balanced decision after doing due diligence. 

In terms of a LL2 and ersjfa mirroring the eosfl as far as I can see nothing has been agreed or published to suggest that an agreement in principle has been reached. A LL2 would be a good idea but I genuinely believe that it is in everyone's interest to have the LL filled with the best clubs/teams in the catchment area (achieved on the park and not through perceived status), when this is achieved only then would there be a stronger argument to increase promotion spots and negotiating for automatic promotion....meaning a free flowing pyramid. 

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There is no doubt that there will be some sort of joined up pyramid. But could the SFA have made more of a mess of it? In all honesty it is a total shambles. One only needs to look at the Club Licencing as a perfect example of the shambles. In order to create a pyramid they fixed the criteria so that almost any club at any level could apply. Now as it seems the Juniors move towards a pyramid and club membership applications increase they quickly place floodlights on a must have. They appear to have less funds available than before to help clubs and the whole thing has clearly had no proper structure or strategy from the word go. An unbelievably amateur and bumbling succession of events where it is clear they had no idea how to progress.  As has been the case all along, glaringly unfair, could even be discriminatory, situations arise. Incredibly inappropriate outcomes occur and the SFA appear only to react, nothing whatsoever seems to be thought out. The question is not do I want my club in the pyramid, that it would appear is enevitable, the question is will the SFA actually ever get their finger out and work this out properly. 

Edited by Bella La ghostie

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9 minutes ago, Bella La ghostie said:

There is no doubt that there will be some sort of joined up pyramid.. 

Hi Isa, mind that time you got banned from here then made a c**t of yourself by threatening the site owner with data protection laws if he didn't remove all your old posts.

And you come creeping back.  Priceless.

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14 hours ago, murphy1970 said:

I'm a reluctant yes.

The Scottish Junior cup is by far & away the most prestigious non-league trophy and would be a huge loss.

I'm coming round to yes on the pragmatic grounds of what I think is likely to happen in the west.

If several of the larger, better supported sides opt to go, and that's what I'm anticipating, could we afford to be left behind 

More or less identical to my outlook. 

I really don't get the number of current or recently departed Junior fans who have been so blasé about losing a great old competition. 

The future is definitely Pyramid shaped but the hoops some folk can be found jumping through to disassociate themselves from the Junior grade doesn't make them look like anything but hivemind thinkers who bend to the majority view. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what we have in a decade, hopefully it all works out for the best for everyone involved. 

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Hi Isa, mind that time you got banned from here then made a c**t of yourself by threatening the site owner with data protection laws if he didn't remove all your old posts.
And you come creeping back.  Priceless.

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More or less identical to my outlook. 

I really don't get the number of current or recently departed Junior fans who have been so blasé about losing a great old competition. 

The future is definitely Pyramid shaped but the hoops some folk can be found jumping through to disassociate themselves from the Junior grade doesn't make them look like anything but hivemind thinkers who bend to the majority view. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what we have in a decade, hopefully it all works out for the best for everyone involved. 

I'd say the hivemind thinkers are those who think loyalty to "the grade" is more important than the game itself.

 

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9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I'd say the hivemind thinkers are those who think loyalty to "the grade" is more important than the game itself.

 

I'd say you get dafties embedded in poorly formed positions on both sides of the argument. Wouldn't waste my energy arguing one faction is any better than the other, but I will say that at the Junior traditional types have an appreciation of what has been good about the Junior game and so I'd like to see them involved in what happens going forward. I think that they're definitely on the losing side of the immediate Pyramid debate but it can get a bit grating to read the amount of haughty sneering they attract from certain quarters. That's not aimed at yourself btw, I've generally found myself in agreement with you on the subject. 

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9 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I'd say you get dafties embedded in poorly formed positions on both sides of the argument. Wouldn't waste my energy arguing one faction is any better than the other, but I will say that at the Junior traditional types have an appreciation of what has been good about the Junior game and so I'd like to see them involved in what happens going forward. I think that they're definitely on the losing side of the immediate Pyramid debate but it can get a bit grating to read the amount of haughty sneering they attract from certain quarters. That's not aimed at yourself btw, I've generally found myself in agreement with you on the subject. 

The problem I find is that there are still those in the Junior game who aren't afraid to still label those who moved to the EoS last season as "traitors", hivemind thinkers. Yet these self same people are now wanting to shoehorn themselves into the Pyramid - on their terms - despite holding complete contempt for it.

Materially there is nothing different between Junior and Senior football, it is all just football. There is no mystical aura about Junior fitba that cannot be found in any other area of the game. It's a myth.

I'd rather see every club play in the same league system, but I can understand the point that the SJFA should remain completely outside the Pyramid and give clubs a choice of where to play (IMO that would be the only reason for the SJFA to continue to exist).  The EoS can then help set-up a WoS  for those who want to move into senior football.  Those in the west that did move, would of course also be seen in some quarters as "traitors", traitors to "the grade".

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1 hour ago, Tynierose said:

Hi Isa, mind that time you got banned from here then made a c**t of yourself by threatening the site owner with data protection laws if he didn't remove all your old posts.

And you come creeping back.  Priceless.

He makes fair points in that post.

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4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

He makes fair points in that post.

True but what's below is much more important...

5c4c466ce27c9_Screenshot_20190126-113640_SamsungInternet.thumb.jpg.d320f2bc102be798c0f2ca072b4fce51.jpg

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Isn’t it weird that, if anyone, no matter who they are, make a statement that criticises the pyramid the same pattern happens. Discredit and ridicule. My post, apparently sharing the view of a past contributor, is immediately discredited by a moderator claiming false alias. Why not address the issues raised in the post instead of discrediting anyone who dares say a word against the pyramid?

Edited by Bella La ghostie

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33 minutes ago, Bella La ghostie said:

Isn’t it weird that, if anyone, no matter who they are, make a statement that criticises the pyramid the same pattern happens. Discredit and ridicule. My post, apparently sharing the view of a past contributor, is immediately discredited by a moderator claiming false alias. Why not address the issues raised in the post instead of discrediting anyone who dares say a word against the pyramid?

 

3 hours ago, Bella La ghostie said:

There is no doubt that there will be some sort of joined up pyramid. But could the SFA have made more of a mess of it? In all honesty it is a total shambles. One only needs to look at the Club Licencing as a perfect example of the shambles. In order to create a pyramid they fixed the criteria so that almost any club at any level could apply. Now as it seems the Juniors move towards a pyramid and club membership applications increase they quickly place floodlights on a must have. They appear to have less funds available than before to help clubs and the whole thing has clearly had no proper structure or strategy from the word go. An unbelievably amateur and bumbling succession of events where it is clear they had no idea how to progress.  As has been the case all along, glaringly unfair, could even be discriminatory, situations arise. Incredibly inappropriate outcomes occur and the SFA appear only to react, nothing whatsoever seems to be thought out. The question is not do I want my club in the pyramid, that it would appear is enevitable, the question is will the SFA actually ever get their finger out and work this out properly. 

The SFA board only  really mediate in situations like this, they don't control the leagues. It's not the easiest thing to push things through. The original 10 team Highland and Lowland Leagues never happened. The supposed preference for a 16 team Highland League never happened. Can't remember if it was an SFA backed decision but there was that attempt to remove SJFA entry into the SFA Scottish Cup and that was voted down as well.

Then when it comes to licensing. Since the EoS and SoS became pyramid leagues in 2013/14 there have been 13 clubs in there every year and they still don't have a SFA License. LTHV only got there's this summer. So it's hard to say they set original standards so low that anyone could get one.

The 2013 standards aren't the same as 2019 as they are under a yearly review. Last year the big change was to ensure there was a covered area for disabled supporters. With many more applications this year than ever before floodlights make sense as a new standard. The more clubs the more games that'll be played in the Scottish Cup and in the pyramid leagues. Floodlights are the way ensure games can be played at anytime of year. With 81 of the 89 current members having them already why wouldn't you make them standard?

 

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5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

The SFA board only  really mediate in situations like this, they don't control the leagues. It's not the easiest thing to push things through. The original 10 team Highland and Lowland Leagues never happened. The supposed preference for a 16 team Highland League never happened. Can't remember if it was an SFA backed decision but there was that attempt to remove SJFA entry into the SFA Scottish Cup and that was voted down as well.

Then when it comes to licensing. Since the EoS and SoS became pyramid leagues in 2013/14 there have been 13 clubs in there every year and they still don't have a SFA License. LTHV only got there's this summer. So it's hard to say they set original standards so low that anyone could get one.

The 2013 standards aren't the same as 2019 as they are under a yearly review. Last year the big change was to ensure there was a covered area for disabled supporters. With many more applications this year than ever before floodlights make sense as a new standard. The more clubs the more games that'll be played in the Scottish Cup and in the pyramid leagues. Floodlights are the way ensure games can be played at anytime of year. With 81 of the 89 current members having them already why wouldn't you make them standard?

 

Absolutely agree that floodlights are a must, but they should have been in from the very start. Suddenly bringing it in with no leeway for new applications looks like it’s a deterrent!

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3 hours ago, Shanner said:

More or less identical to my outlook. 

I really don't get the number of current or recently departed Junior fans who have been so blasé about losing a great old competition....

The number of clubs that enter the junior cup thinking they have a chance of winning it, is nothing like as large as it used to be, given how dominant clubs like Auchinleck Talbot have become and that kills the excitement a bit. Having three superleagues with one being a complete non-factor in competitive terms has also killed a lot of the novelty of having games against teams from other parts of the country compared to how things were when there were separate Ayrshire, Central, East, Fife and Tayside league setups. 

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5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

The number of clubs that enter the junior cup thinking they have a chance of winning it, is nothing like as large as it used to be, given how dominant clubs like Auchinleck Talbot have become and that kills the excitement a bit. Having three superleagues with one being a complete non-factor in competitive terms has also killed a lot of the novelty of having games against teams from other parts of the country compared to how things were when there were separate Ayrshire, Central, East, Fife and Tayside league setups. 

I sort of agree with you. The superleague era killed the likes of the WOS cup a bit. I've always se the Junior Cup as a sort of sacred mystical thing. Bit rose tinted of me but until last season I still felt it was a wonderful competition. 

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40 minutes ago, Bella La ghostie said:

Absolutely agree that floodlights are a must, but they should have been in from the very start. Suddenly bringing it in with no leeway for new applications looks like it’s a deterrent!

I'd maybe agree but on the same day that the EoS were telling there members to get applications in now because of speculated licensing changes, Ian Maxwell was sending is now (in)famous email saying the SJFA was in at Tier 6.

With licensing only required for Tier 1-5,  it looks more like floodlights were being added as the next box to be ticked on raising infratructure standards. Just like speculation turning to having seating as the next thing.

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