Estragon Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, Romeo said: Could you explain why you consider the term "orange b*****ds" sectarian? If you accuse someone of being a member of a hateful group like the Orange Order purely on the basis of their CoS background, it's no different from saying that your Muslim neighbour, or your Catholic neighbour is a terrorist sympathiser purely on the basis of theirs. I've always defended the Celtic crowd on the use of the word "***" for instance - which while crass and unsavoury, is not sectarian - but this is undoubtedly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Romeo said: Could you explain why you consider the term "orange b*****ds" sectarian? It's an interesting, nuanced debate that can be had. Guess what, though? There's no nuance when it's being shouted by c. 60,000 Celtic fans at Parkhead asking Craig Levein to cheer up. What orange means, in that context, is quite clear. "Not one of us", "the other side", etc. I personally think that the relations between Protestants and Catholics in this country make f*nian a stronger, more hate-filled word, but I accept that I'm probably in a minority there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 It's an interesting, nuanced debate that can be had. Guess what, though? There's no nuance when it's being shouted by c. 60,000 Celtic fans at Parkhead asking Craig Levein to cheer up. What orange means, in that context, is quite clear. "Not one of us", "the other side", etc. I personally think that the relations between Protestants and Catholics in this country make f*nian a stronger, more hate-filled word, but I accept that I'm probably in a minority there. Your right, I hear it all the time. Thousands do it Please don't include me and many others though. The 60000 figure just makes your argument look silly. I really don't associate ***, Orange whatever or ****** as being sectarian at all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKillie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MEADOWXI said: Former Scotland midfielder Michael Stewart on BBC Sportscene: "Steve Clarke is a man of integrity and he shouldn't have to listen to it. But it is very difficult to police it because what happens if a whole stand is shouting sectarian abuse? How can you answer that.............................. You close the whole fucking stand for two games So wasn't just a stand, it was the whole fucking stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John MacLean Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MJC said: Ahhhh 'whataboutery' the go-to word of the one sided politically correct 'sectarian crusaders' in Scottish football. It's not even a word, though I think its meaning is that if Rangers fans do something and are challenged for it, they respond with "what about Celtic fans". Though if you read what I posted then you would see that that's not what I was doing. I said quite clearly that I don't condone any sort of chanting of that nature and that anyone who does it is a fucking idiot. I reiterate, the issue here is the manner in which it is reported. Even if we take Clarke out of the equation for a minute, where was the big outcry from the media on Sunday when Celtic fans were chanting at Kris Boyd? And Andy Walker on SKY TV actually laughed about it. Now fast forward three days and everyone is up in arms about mirror image chanting from the other lot. Well, if anyone is serious about being anti sectarian/bigotry then they can't laugh one side off yet get all high and mighty about the other, otherwise it just makes a mockery of the whole thing. As for Clarke and Boyd's abuse, yes people react differently when the abuse is personal, but that was one of his players on Sunday taking that abuse and he makes no comment about it, indeed he "just wanted to talk about the football" and now he's on the receiving end he's dribbling on about the dark ages etc. And I'm afraid he loses any credibility when he said that he is thankful Chelsea took him away from the west of Scotland. Chelsea, a club with a notoriously right-wing support themselves. Right you are Clarke ya trumpet. To make one moronic, shambolic post is human. To do it twice is the act of a slabbering simpleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam the bud Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Dindeleux said: I think this whole episode will sadly bring a premature end to Clarke's time in charge at RP. Sadly I think you will be right, I reckon the best manager in the country will be driven out of his country by the bigots, and will go back down south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Don't worry lads. Talksport and Jim White are on the case. The first caller......" What about Celtic though!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Don't worry lads. Talksport and Jim White are on the case. The first caller......" What about Celtic though!" [emoji38]Oofft..was he called theKorean by any chance..Anyway this just in.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Romeo said: Your right, I hear it all the time. Thousands do it Please don't include me and many others though. The 60000 figure just makes your argument look silly. I really don't associate ***, Orange whatever or ****** as being sectarian at all really. No, fair play, I just said the Parkhead capacity figure, didn't really mean "all 60,000 are doing it" but it does come across that way. It's probably nearer 10,000, a lot of whom aren't sectarian but get carried away in the moment (5-1 up at home to Rangers), of course you're going to consider singing about Mark Warburton even if it is sectarian. The problem with your last bit is that a Rangers fan could make that exact same defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy boo Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 And vice versa. If you look at Rangers and Celtic social media, 90% of both are about one another. Its crazy.The majority of the decent posters on here would have no desire to look at their anti social media. Some of us have a life and value our sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 24 minutes ago, Estragon said: If you accuse someone of being a member of a hateful group like the Orange Order purely on the basis of their CoS background, it's no different from saying that your Muslim neighbour, or your Catholic neighbour is a terrorist sympathiser purely on the basis of theirs. I've always defended the Celtic crowd on the use of the word "***" for instance - which while crass and unsavoury, is not sectarian - but this is undoubtedly different. This, being a Protestant myself I'd take offence at the term Orange b****rd. I have nothing to do with the bigoted extremists of the OO and don't want to be associated with them. So yes, that term is sectarian just as much as it's sectarian to link every Catholic to IRA terrorism. (and I don't want to have anything to do with either side of the ugly sisters I don't want to hear either side say "they are worse", as they are both awful) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Marten said: This, being a Protestant myself I'd take offence at the term Orange b****rd. I have nothing to do with the bigoted extremists of the OO and don't want to be associated with them. So yes, that term is sectarian just as much as it's sectarian to link every Catholic to IRA terrorism. (and I don't want to have anything to do with either side of the ugly sisters I don't want to hear either side say "they are worse", as they are both awful) Well you can't criticise Rangers fans because I didn't see you up in arms about Kris Boyd's abuse on Sunday, therefore you are complicit. Bigot. IT CAN'T BE ONE RULE FOR ONE AND NOT THE OTHER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 36 minutes ago, AuAl said: Didn't treat the two like each other, if you read what is said. You brought up Chelsea having racist fans, which while completely correct and completely unnacceptable, I feel is irrelevant to Stevie Clarke being abused in a sectarian manner. To be fair, whatabouting at the likes of Chelsea must feel like a bit of a nice holiday, compared to just pointing fingers at the other half of Glasgow yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Billy the Bigot on Talksport. According to this Fud, it is perfectly acceptable to call anybody anything as long as it is done within the 90 minutes of play. Shut his fecking Club down and Celtic also. Scotland's scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_do_nicely Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 SHOTS = [ ] NOT FIRED [x] FIRED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, John MacLean said: To make one moronic, shambolic post is human. To do it twice is the act of a slabbering simpleton. So, what exactly have I that I said that you disagree with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, thekorean said: Also treating sectarianism like racism is also pretty disgusting but thats here nor there. I was at a conference a wee while back where a guy presented on sectarianism, and he argued that they only way to tackle it was by referring to it as anti-Catholic or anti-Protestant racism. His argument was along the lines of that word really driving home how serious it is, whilst the term 'sectarianism' has been totally devalued. Imo Sectarianism is seen as a bit of a joke to a lot of people. We all likely know people who are pretty openly sectarian and, dare I say it, borderline proud of the fact. Until that's made as socially unacceptable as racism then we won't get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, BlueKillie said: So wasn't just a stand, it was the whole fucking stadium. The Big House must stay open be closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killie_lad Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Anyway this just in.. Entirely believable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afca32 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 hour ago, MixuFixit said: OBFA repeal more important imo. Atmosphere changed overnight when that happened. Yeah probably also a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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