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Is the Loan System getting out of hand?


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I think a lot of it is to do with competence of the manager or person responsible for signings. Whilst board members have become more short sighted which puts pressure on managers to find short term solutions at the end of the day its up to the guy in charge of signings to decide if loan players will improve the team short or potentially harm long term.

 

Using our past few examples...

 

Paddy Roberts was a sucess by giving us a match winner and by breathing down Forrests neck* it ended up kicking his game on a bit as well.

Bain can be viewed a sucess as he got a long term contract out of it. 

Benkovic a success we bad needly needed a competent defender for Europe and he has proven that, because of him I doubt we would be in Europe after Christmas. This extra money will add to the budget for his replacement hopefully. He perhaps has hindered Hendrys development but he is way out his depth at this level.

Edouard- Sucess, to the point we broke our transfer record to get permanently.

 

Musonda - Failure - Despite bursting on to the scene with a spectacular assist in the latter stages of Europe his attitude was found wanting and his loan was cut short. He didn’t really hinder the chances of youth either though as Johnstone was injured and took his place on the bench once recovered. Other managers may have stuck with him as he probably was technically a better player than Johnstone but Rodgers decided Johnstone was a better option by having a better attitude and being potentially the future of the club. 

 

Jurys out:

Arzani - Depite being hot property after the world cup Rodgers didn't pander to his reputation and he had to wait months to get a chance. Sadly after coming off the bench in his debut he got injured for the season. We still potentially have him next season however.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*so to speak

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2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Clubs who take 3 or 4 loan players a season never end up doing anything IMO.  Every summer the personnel changes too much you can't get a consistent team over 2-3 years who become successful (ICT 2012-2015 ), (Ross County 2009-2013).

Clubs like Falkirk have stagnated in the Championship because they take in loads of young loanees in for a season, don't get promoted, then start again with a new team of jobbbers and loanees and the cycle continues.

Partially agree, however in Scotland it's not uncommon for permanent signings on 1 year or 2 year deals. In essence managers are constantly rebuilding anyway and loans can play a part in fixing bits and pieces.

It can get harmful if all your best players are loans or if you have a lot of your first team as loans but that is up to a club and manager. Equally it's up to clubs to promote youth players and sending them out for experience can be good. 

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2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

I get the impression that often young players are being loaned out with little expectation of them ever coming back and becoming regulars at their parent club. It's basically letting them down gently.

Rory Currie is 20 and will spend the rest of the season in league one at East Fife. It would be a surprise if we see him back at Tynecastle regularly. It would be equally surprising if Demitri Mitchell (just turned 22) makes a long term impact back at Old Trafford.

It puts them in the shop window for a new club as well, bear in mind.

Ultimately youth squads are packed with players that won't make it - the good ones will need team mates, hence their existence.

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My only real problem with the loan system in Scotand is the rule about the player not being allowed to play against the parent club.
So to get round that to some extent , I think the lending of a player between two teams in the same league should be prohibited.   I think this rule is applied in England.
Players are allowed to play against their parent club in cup competitions though.
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8 hours ago, A96 said:

What's your verdict on Sam Roscoe , so far ?

Not quite ready to replace McKenna if he goes sooner rather than later ?

he is one of the first on the teamsheet , his height is a big factor in his usefulness, but he has done well and is improving a lot 

certainly good enough for us and can only get better, loan has been extended so Jim likes him , so do we 

 

Must Add though Alloa seem to take on players who are less thought of and get the best from them, 

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8 hours ago, WATTOO said:

I'm in 100% agreement with you here. As an Ayr fan I don't believe it's any coincidence that we're doing so well this year with all our own players and only the 1 Loan signing (Ross Doohan from Celtic), the players all seem more together and they also appear to be giving their all in every match which has not been the case in previous seasons when we had lots of Loan players coming in.

I also completely agree that it's mental for clubs to have a youth policy / academy of their own but then choose to develop a 17 or 18 year old from a rival club ahead of giving their own youth players a chance.

What message does that send out and what long term benefits are in it for the club taking the Loan player ?

Personally, I think the problem is that the rich have become far too rich (pretty much like society in general) and what I would do is put a limit on every single club that they can have a signed squad of no more than 30 players, that way it would possibly deter the big English clubs from hoovering up literally hundreds of players and instead give other clubs a chance to actually sign or bring through young players for themselves.

This of course would also benefit the young players as they would be far more likely to see competitive first team football at an early age and also play in a settled team as opposed to being punted from pillar to post before they're even 20.

There is of course short term benefits to having Loan players and being honest Ayr could do with someone right now, however as a business model and from a long term perspective I'm pretty much against it.

 

7 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Clubs who take 3 or 4 loan players a season never end up doing anything IMO.  Every summer the personnel changes too much you can't get a consistent team over 2-3 years who become successful (ICT 2012-2015 ), (Ross County 2009-2013).

Clubs like Falkirk have stagnated in the Championship because they take in loads of young loanees in for a season, don't get promoted, then start again with a new team of jobbbers and loanees and the cycle continues.

It has worked well for us the last few seasons, back to back promotions and are looking pretty solid this season too, all of which was with 4 or 5 loan signings. Some have been very short term that weren't working out but most were used to good effect. Ryan Hardie is probably the exception though, as we had a core group of players the loan players worked around but Hardie would be the only one i'd say was put in alongside that core group as first choice every game.

I think we sign up as many players as we can but need to bring in several loan players to fill the squad out to give us what we need to work with over the course of the season, so have no complaints about how the loan deals are used. Some like Liam Kelly even end up signing up for us, so it can work out well long term too.

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9 hours ago, A96 said:

My only real problem with the loan system in Scotand is the rule about the player not being allowed to play against the parent club.

So to get round that to some extent , I think the lending of a player between two teams in the same league should be prohibited.   I think this rule is applied in England.

In Italy a player IS allowed to play against their parent club, which is how it should be.

Would stop the uglies signing the best players from other Scottish teams, just  to plonk them in the stand/on the bench in league cup games.

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