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an86

QP v Albion Rovers

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Why start against Albion Rovers with no pace ? Alan Gow is not a winger . Thought we were poor today . Does anyone know where Hart was is he injured?

Hart had the flu. His sub is only 17.

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The young lad in goals and Hawke were about the only ones who could come out of that with any credit. Starting a guy with all the mobility of your average care home resident on the right wing is one of the wildest selections I've ever seen. Bringing Gow in was worth a punt, but I don't think he's any further forward from when he came in. He absolutely shat out of a tackle in the second half. You need guys who want to be part of a battle at this level and he obviously doesn't want to be. 

I've no idea what our game plan was and there was no pattern to our play at all. As I said, we were being outfought and overrun before the goal and nobody was taking responsibility. It was quiet on the pitch and there was little coming from the touchline. If anything, we were less bad after the enforced changes.

Towards the end, either side could have won it because both sides just gave up having a formation and just chased the ball around like it was a schools match. There was no shape or organisation to it. 

This game wasn't a gimme and we're certainly not entitled to turn up and just expect to win any game. There's a basic level of application that has to be expected from players, though. We can point to other circumstances over the last two home games, but I'm afraid that would be putting the fingers in the ears and denying reality. We've lacked both commitment and organisation in both games and it's totally unacceptable. 

I expected inconsistency with a mixture of sugar and shite, this season. Less of the shite, next week, would be preferable. There's minimum expectation of a cohesive game plan and everyone getting stuck in from the start. If we lose to a better side, so be it. 

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10 hours ago, the_bully_wee said:

Is there any truth to the strengthening rumours that you will be turning professional in the summer? It's been a long time coming; can't see the club's trajectory being anything but a downward spiral otherwise. May God help you if Mark Roberts is tasked with assembling an unpaid squad...

Piece of absolute cheek for "the boy who cried wolf" to be asking that question, seriously or otherwise:o.

This issue relates entirely to the Hampden sale debacle and whether we now need a new business model for the future or not. As things stand the Committee have absolute power in the negotiations with the SFA to make wide-ranging decisions on behalf of the club. Sadly however they do not have that power over the SFA, and if they don't get the right deal for the club then we might (for example) discover that "Lesser Hampden" excludes the adjacent car parking, and if we want that facility on training nights or match days then we have to pay for it, as that level of detail has yet to be negotiated.

To return to the original question though, nobody knows the answer to that one  because neither the President nor the Committee have the power to make that decision as it would require a change in the club's constitution and therefore only the members can decide. Opinion is strongly divided, so anyone who tells you that they already know what the outcome of that vote would be is either a liar or a clairvoyant.

Should that EGM ever come to pass then I suspect the Committee would present with two potential scenarios, neither of which could be treated as gospel, but this is probably what the membership would be told....................if we turned professional then we would stand a better chance of maintaining our league status, but if we remained amateur there would an increased risk of demotion. Whether an accurate representation of the future or not, such a choice would split the membership as some support the club by virtue of it being their local team whose status is irrelevant, whilst others were first attracted by the uniqueness of their current status, and would still follow them irrespective of what league they were in.

I guess East Stirlingshire fans who still follow their side are best qualified to proffer opinion on what they would recommend, but the only certainty is this. If such a vote is ever held, the feeling of some on either side of the fence is so strong that whatever the outcome, going forward the club will have less members and supporters than it did before the vote and that surely can't be a good thing.

As far as the downwards trajectory argument is concerned, I personally don't take that as read. Over the years I've heard several professional players say that nobody consistently ever tried harder against them than Queen's Park players because as amateurs they felt they had a point to prove against so called "superior" professionals. Also, simply by virtue of being amateur, we attract a higher standard of youth player by virtue of them knowing they will get earlier 1st team with us and will pocket any signing fees in full when they decide to leave us. I remain to be convinced that the professional model would work for our club, and whether any incoming transfer fees would outweigh the financial drain on our resources.

Should anyone wish to continue that debate then I'd suggest a new thread would be appropriate!

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I agree with an86 and it would be ridiculous to expect consistent silky football every week from such an inexperienced squad but from Gow there was no spark of effort or wanting to be involved. Everyone will have their own opinion of selection but I would like to have seen Smart start at no 7. He shirks nothing and will chase back to defend and is reasonable in the air. Why not give him a run in that area? The other area of the park which needs urgent attention in my mind is the left sided defence. Summers seems incapable of taking up position to defend and there is no cover for him. Left sided defensive midfielder required. Peters is not much better than Gow  in my opinion. 

On a positive note for the player I have not seen Fotheringham play such an influential role in a team. He started much further up the field than his QP role and looked more than decent. Was he mismanaged at Hampden? Good luck to him.

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20 minutes ago, williebraveheart said:

On a positive note for the player I have not seen Fotheringham play such an influential role in a team. He started much further up the field than his QP role and looked more than decent. Was he mismanaged at Hampden? Good luck to him.

He's not a bad player, but we allowed him to play the way he played yesterday. Absolutely no dig. 

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17 minutes ago, williebraveheart said:

I have not seen Fotheringham play such an influential role in a team. He started much further up the field than his QP role and looked more than decent. Was he mismanaged at Hampden?

Too early to say Willie as he looked "more than decent" in his first spell with us and regressed thereafter. I never judge a player on the basis of their debut as adrenalin and the unknown factor do weird things for a player, especially against the team that rejected them. 'Rovers fans will be far better placed to judge his worth a few games from now, but you're quite right that he looked a far more accomplished player higher up the field that the holding role he had for us.

Mind you the same could be said of Wharton yesterday who absolutely strolled through the game in his more advance Beckenbauer role!

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6 minutes ago, The Spider said:

Too early to say Willie as he looked "more than decent" in his first spell with us and regressed thereafter. I never judge a player on the basis of their debut as adrenalin and the unknown factor do weird things for a player, especially against the team that rejected them. 'Rovers fans will be far better placed to judge his worth a few games from now, but you're quite right that he looked a far more accomplished player higher up the field that the holding role he had for us.

Mind you the same could be said of Wharton yesterday who absolutely strolled through the game in his more advance Beckenbauer role!

Wharton strolled through a lot of games for us like that. It was unfortunate that about 1 in 4 turned into disaster for him.

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Piece of absolute cheek for "the boy who cried wolf" to be asking that question, seriously or otherwise.
As you well know it'll be the otherwise option. And yet you just couldn't resist it. It's the Internet. Your personal speculation will become "an inside source said" for Glasgow's rags.

This is why QP business should be discussed indoors. Granted the communication network needs to improve but wild gossip on PnB isn't the right approach.

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15 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:
1 hour ago, The Spider said:
wild gossip :lol::lol::lol:

Fortunately for me, and as you well know, nothing I said falls under that description, but clearly and as usual you take the huff when anybody rains on your own parade and threatens your self-proclaimed status as the unofficial voice of the club. Get over it. I wasn't present at the recent meeting, nor know what was said but everyone connected with the club knows what the key issues are viz: what will the fine detail of the current Hampden negotiations be, and what will the future business model be.

If you don't feel like debating issues that are already in the public domain https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/queen-s-park-to-consider-going-professional-1-4804091 then fine, stick to posting links from the club's online programme and foster your agenda that way, but don't try to prevent others from participating in a legitimate discussion. Anyone who subscribes to the view that P&B discussion of an article published in a National newspaper several months ago will affect the outcome of high level negotiations is either deluded, or caught up in their own importance................or perhaps in your case both?

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Fortunately for me, and as you well know, nothing I said falls under that description, but clearly and as usual you take the huff when anybody rains on your own parade and threatens your self-proclaimed status as the unofficial voice of the club. Get over it. I wasn't present at the recent meeting, nor know what was said but everyone connected with the club knows what the key issues are viz: what will the fine detail of the current Hampden negotiations be, and what will the future business model be.
If you don't feel like debating issues that are already in the public domain https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/queen-s-park-to-consider-going-professional-1-4804091 then fine, stick to posting links from the club's online programme and foster your agenda that way, but don't try to prevent others from participating in a legitimate discussion. Anyone who subscribes to the view that P&B discussion of an article published in a National newspaper several months ago will affect the outcome of high level negotiations is either deluded, or caught up in their own importance................or perhaps in your case both?
We had a similar discussion on the Clyde thread.
Some thought public comments from our manager in our club lounge should be kept secret from other fans.

Why the demand for secrecy?

What difference does it make?

Why not let others that don't attend meetings know what's going on at their club?

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The young lad in goals and Hawke were about the only ones who could come out of that with any credit. Starting a guy with all the mobility of your average care home resident on the right wing is one of the wildest selections I've ever seen. Bringing Gow in was worth a punt, but I don't think he's any further forward from when he came in. He absolutely shat out of a tackle in the second half. You need guys who want to be part of a battle at this level and he obviously doesn't want to be. 
I've no idea what our game plan was and there was no pattern to our play at all. As I said, we were being outfought and overrun before the goal and nobody was taking responsibility. It was quiet on the pitch and there was little coming from the touchline. If anything, we were less bad after the enforced changes.
Towards the end, either side could have won it because both sides just gave up having a formation and just chased the ball around like it was a schools match. There was no shape or organisation to it. 
This game wasn't a gimme and we're certainly not entitled to turn up and just expect to win any game. There's a basic level of application that has to be expected from players, though. We can point to other circumstances over the last two home games, but I'm afraid that would be putting the fingers in the ears and denying reality. We've lacked both commitment and organisation in both games and it's totally unacceptable. 
I expected inconsistency with a mixture of sugar and shite, this season. Less of the shite, next week, would be preferable. There's minimum expectation of a cohesive game plan and everyone getting stuck in from the start. If we lose to a better side, so be it. 

Dear god. After a month of dysfunction we get the team back in the shape we know works. Except our goalie, an anchor for the defence, calls of sick before kick-off. And within 35 minutes we've lost 3 of our more experienced players due to injury, one of which enforces our captain and key midfielder to fall back to a sweeper role. And you don't think that would throw the boat of course for a bit. Gerry was a bit off the piece after 4 weeks out and not having Hart roaring at everyone would explain the early sluggishness. The second half was a huge improvement with Martin, Moore and McGrory all doing well. Hawke scored a great goal and assisted the other. We kept a clean sheet in the second half.

Have a look around your workplace on Monday and imagine how your day would go if 35% of the staff were off, all the experienced ones, and what was left were the apprentices and office juniors. Oh, and the department head has been off sick for 3 months too.

At the same time, our opponents who've become the jokers in the pack, have radically improved and judging by their two trialists yesterday and the QP rejects midfield (have a look at Gregor's influence on the first goal) and their lively attack force we won't be the last to be disappointed against them.

Keep it real. Promotion was always a stretch too far this season. If we can use January to steady the ship and get the feelgood back we've still got 3 months to be safe and start next year's plan.

As for criticism about Roberts, generally, as there's been so much talk about the lack of communication this weekend I would remind all QP fans that we are now burdened by the amateur contracts imposed on us by the SPFL which means that any player can hand in his notice and leave 28 days later. No other club in the SPFL has that burden. So when Mark is asked to map out his business plan for the rest of the year he's only ever got certainty of the next four weeks. That's a stress situation for sure. I made my comment about Gow weeks ago and I stand by it but other than that he's doing a decent job given the disruption. I'd also remind our fans that the amateur contracts came back into play as a direct consequence of a campaign run by the Daily Record, fronted by Davie Provan, about Scottish clubs not paying the minimum wage and our club had a two-page feature article where Provan stated it was time QP were put out to grass. Where did the info come from? There was also a leak just a couple of months ago when confidential info shared with members, in private, was printed in the Record the very next day. Perhaps some of you might reconsider why the Committee are so concerned about loose information.

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14 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:


Dear god. After a month of dysfunction we get the team back in the shape we know works. Except our goalie, an anchor for the defence, calls of sick before kick-off. And within 35 minutes we've lost 3 of our more experienced players due to injury, one of which enforces our captain and key midfielder to fall back to a sweeper role. And you don't think that would throw the boat of course for a bit. Gerry was a bit off the piece after 4 weeks out and not having Hart roaring at everyone would explain the early sluggishness. The second half was a huge improvement with Martin, Moore and McGrory all doing well. Hawke scored a great goal and assisted the other. We kept a clean sheet in the second half.

Have a look around your workplace on Monday and imagine how your day would go if 35% of the staff were off, all the experienced ones, and what was left were the apprentices and office juniors. Oh, and the department head has been off sick for 3 months too.

At the same time, our opponents who've become the jokers in the pack, have radically improved and judging by their two trialists yesterday and the QP rejects midfield (have a look at Gregor's influence on the first goal) and their lively attack force we won't be the last to be disappointed against them.

Keep it real. Promotion was always a stretch too far this season. If we can use January to steady the ship and get the feelgood back we've still got 3 months to be safe and start next year's plan.

Albion Rovers had picked up one point on the road this season and we made them look like playoff contenders. The majority of players starting the game yesterday have been involved in victories against stronger opposition. We were at our worst when the starting XI were on the pitch. Even after that, we were poor. Better, but not good. 

Football and the workplace are not comparable. However, if we pretend for a second that they were, I'd be expected to know how to do the basics to get through the day, rather than just standing at the coffee machine on my phone or sitting on the Internet. 

Nobody mentioned promotion. I understand where we are. However, there is absolutely no excuse for us to be losing the last two home games to an aggregate score of 6-2. Football is not an overly complex game. Get the basics right and it would not have played out that way. It only takes one or two not to be putting a shift in to affect the balance. 

There's a basic standard I expect from players in terms of application. As I said, we've no right to expect to win football matches without working for them. The application in the likes of the Clyde, Edinburgh and Stirling games, which we didn't win, was fine. No complaints. Nobody will convince me that what we saw yesterday and against Elgin was anything short of unacceptable. 

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18 hours ago, an86 said:

We can hide behind the injuries and subs if we want. The truth is that we were being bossed well before that even happened. A hungry, well organised team arrived to play against a disorganised and complacent shambles. If anyone would care to explain what our tactics were, I'm all ears. 

The game against Elgin was insipid and embarrassing. Today was the same. Losing to Elgin is not embarrassing. Drawing with Albion Rovers is not embarrassing. The other teams wanting it more is embarrassing. Half arsed, demotivated shite. It's not good enough. 

Yes it is. 

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Good post BYOS.

The talk on Sat night was that only one of Kurtis' teeth was saveable. Poor guy.

It's hard to see how much worse our luck / the season can get. The top 3 are pulling away and we're 8 points off the last play off place.

Saturday was actually quite entertaining in a perverse sort of way, but well below the standard that we should expect.

As an aside, I met Davie Provan a few years ago at a Radio Clyde event and he came over as a horrible wee man.

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Fortunately for me, and as you well know, nothing I said falls under that description, but clearly and as usual you take the huff when anybody rains on your own parade and threatens your self-proclaimed status as the unofficial voice of the club. Get over it. I wasn't present at the recent meeting, nor know what was said but everyone connected with the club knows what the key issues are viz: what will the fine detail of the current Hampden negotiations be, and what will the future business model be.
If you don't feel like debating issues that are already in the public domain https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/queen-s-park-to-consider-going-professional-1-4804091 then fine, stick to posting links from the club's online programme and foster your agenda that way, but don't try to prevent others from participating in a legitimate discussion. Anyone who subscribes to the view that P&B discussion of an article published in a National newspaper several months ago will affect the outcome of high level negotiations is either deluded, or caught up in their own importance................or perhaps in your case both?

Interesting. Like watching a drunk man trying to button his coat.

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On 6 January 2019 at 12:54, an86 said:

He's not a bad player, but we allowed him to play the way he played yesterday. Absolutely no dig. 

After 45 mins he was out bedt midfielder we have had all season

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On 1/6/2019 at 12:27, The Spider said:

Piece of absolute cheek for "the boy who cried wolf" to be asking that question, seriously or otherwise:o.

This issue relates entirely to the Hampden sale debacle and whether we now need a new business model for the future or not. As things stand the Committee have absolute power in the negotiations with the SFA to make wide-ranging decisions on behalf of the club. Sadly however they do not have that power over the SFA, and if they don't get the right deal for the club then we might (for example) discover that "Lesser Hampden" excludes the adjacent car parking, and if we want that facility on training nights or match days then we have to pay for it, as that level of detail has yet to be negotiated.

To return to the original question though, nobody knows the answer to that one  because neither the President nor the Committee have the power to make that decision as it would require a change in the club's constitution and therefore only the members can decide. Opinion is strongly divided, so anyone who tells you that they already know what the outcome of that vote would be is either a liar or a clairvoyant.

Should that EGM ever come to pass then I suspect the Committee would present with two potential scenarios, neither of which could be treated as gospel, but this is probably what the membership would be told....................if we turned professional then we would stand a better chance of maintaining our league status, but if we remained amateur there would an increased risk of demotion. Whether an accurate representation of the future or not, such a choice would split the membership as some support the club by virtue of it being their local team whose status is irrelevant, whilst others were first attracted by the uniqueness of their current status, and would still follow them irrespective of what league they were in.

I guess East Stirlingshire fans who still follow their side are best qualified to proffer opinion on what they would recommend, but the only certainty is this. If such a vote is ever held, the feeling of some on either side of the fence is so strong that whatever the outcome, going forward the club will have less members and supporters than it did before the vote and that surely can't be a good thing.

As far as the downwards trajectory argument is concerned, I personally don't take that as read. Over the years I've heard several professional players say that nobody consistently ever tried harder against them than Queen's Park players because as amateurs they felt they had a point to prove against so called "superior" professionals. Also, simply by virtue of being amateur, we attract a higher standard of youth player by virtue of them knowing they will get earlier 1st team with us and will pocket any signing fees in full when they decide to leave us. I remain to be convinced that the professional model would work for our club, and whether any incoming transfer fees would outweigh the financial drain on our resources.

Should anyone wish to continue that debate then I'd suggest a new thread would be appropriate!

Just a thought....if we were professional could we sign players like Jordan Hart, James Grant, Kurtis Roberts, Lewis Hawke etc on 2 year contracts. Would this not allow our Head Coach a long-term planning process. I wonder how Mark Roberts can think about planning for next season when he knows our best players will walk away for nothing. If they were on 2 year deals then we would have them for next season and have a much better chance of having a go at actually winning the league (almost 19 years since we last did that). It would also  allow us to command more from any potential transfer fees "you want the player now then match our demands or they stay put "

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You have to have the cash to offer two year deals. Clubs like Airdrie, with double our crowds, can only offer contracts that cover the 10 months of the season. Hence we have to hope that the youth system provides the nucleus of our team, although all too many are lured away with unreasonable offers by agents and / or pro contracts.

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I can see the arguments for turning professional. Players being able to leave with little notice is an absolute pisser. It is entirely fair, though. If you're not paying someone, you can't really call the shots on what they want to do. All you can do is hope that they'll sign for a season, in good faith, and see it through. 

Can also see the argument against it in terms of outgoings. However, teams with less infrastructure and fan base manage it. Smaller clubs like Edinburgh City and Clyde are making it work. 

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