Monkey Tennis Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Would playing through International breaks increase our chances? Worth remembering the amount of players Aberdeen and Kilmarnock also lose it International weekends before claiming hamstringing Celtic/Rangers would help others win the league. All your doing is feeding this narrative they're unbeatable. It wouldn't hugely increase the chances, given that we'd be talking about only a handful of matches. And of course I'm not saying they're unbeatable. The bigger, wealthier clubs have more international players though, which is massively beneficial for them. I don't see an occasional denting of that massive benefit as such a problem myself, but clearly we must do everything to preserve the current absurd imbalance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: No, that isn't what I said. But you described it as a leveller, it wouldn't be for us in our pursuit of Celtic. Your example of a downside is very specific. And narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: Your example of a downside is very specific. And narrow. Not really. If you implement this without doing anything about the financial disparity between clubs then teams currently close to Celtic are the ones who suffer. Celtic already have a squad that could cope and have the resources to fill that squad out even more if you brought this in, the chasing pack, with the exception of Rangers maybe, don't. So it may be a leveller in a one off game against Celtic but in terms of league placings, not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Not really. If you implement this without doing anything about the financial disparity between clubs then teams currently close to Celtic are the ones who suffer. Celtic already have a squad that could cope and have the resources to fill that squad out even more if you brought this in, the chasing pack, with the exception of Rangers maybe, don't. So it may be a leveller in a one off game against Celtic but in terms of league placings, not at all. It is narrow. Until very recently, it wouldn't even have impacted much on Aberdeen, and currently, it wouldn't be too disastrous for Kilmarnock. I think there's maybe an argument where U21s are concerned, but otherwise, no. If clubs occasionally have to get by without their full internationals, it won't cost me sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: It is narrow. Until very recently, it wouldn't even have impacted much on Aberdeen, and currently, it wouldn't be too disastrous for Kilmarnock. I think there's maybe an argument where U21s are concerned, but otherwise, no. If clubs occasionally have to get by without their full internationals, it won't cost me sleep. We'll agree to disagree, I think you're well off on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Dons_1988 said: We'll agree to disagree, I think you're well off on this one. Aberdeen are better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Danny Ward Shay Logan Anthony O'Connor Ash Taylor Andy Considine Ryan Jack Graeme Shinnie Niall McGinn Kenny McLean Johnny Hayes Adam Rooney Our first team in the 2015-16 season when we kept pace with Celtic until the end of March. I've scored out all the players who recieved international call-ups that season. We'd have been f*cked playing through international breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said: Danny Ward Shay Logan Anthony O'Connor Ash Taylor Andy Considine Ryan Jack Graeme Shinnie Niall McGinn Kenny McLean Johnny Hayes Adam Rooney Our first team in the 2015-16 season when we kept pace with Celtic until the end of March. I've scored out all the players who recieved international call-ups that season. We'd have been f*cked playing through international breaks. Would still have beaten Dundee with those 4 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: It wouldn't hugely increase the chances, given that we'd be talking about only a handful of matches. And of course I'm not saying they're unbeatable. The bigger, wealthier clubs have more international players though, which is massively beneficial for them. I don't see an occasional denting of that massive benefit as such a problem myself, but clearly we must do everything to preserve the current absurd imbalance. Excellent use of the false dichotomy. Either agree with a half baked idea or support the cheeks duopoly. No other option exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 6 hours ago, WATTOO said: Do the English Championship not schedule games in direct opposition though and also have them televised by Sky ? The Championship isn't a top flight league, so the rule/agreement doesn't apply to it. 3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: It is narrow. Until very recently, it wouldn't even have impacted much on Aberdeen, and currently, it wouldn't be too disastrous for Kilmarnock. I think there's maybe an argument where U21s are concerned, but otherwise, no. If clubs occasionally have to get by without their full internationals, it won't cost me sleep. This season we've had Jamie MacDonald, Greg Taylor, Stephen O'Donnell, Iain Wilson, Aaron Tshibola, Jordan Jones and Eamonn Brophy called up for international duty. It would be totally disastrous for us - that includes four of our best performers this season. Aberdeen had something like four players in the last Scotland squad too, and I'm guessing they also had guys in youth squads and playing for other countries (McGinn, for example). In fact, it could potentially affect Celtic less given that they have a larger squad of players to choose from and might be able to afford to lose a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: It wouldn't hugely increase the chances, given that we'd be talking about only a handful of matches. And of course I'm not saying they're unbeatable. The bigger, wealthier clubs have more international players though, which is massively beneficial for them. I don't see an occasional denting of that massive benefit as such a problem myself, but clearly we must do everything to preserve the current absurd imbalance. Celtic lose James Forrest to International duty, and use Scott Sinclair instead. Kilmarnock lose Stephen O'Donnell and have to use Ross Millen. Aberdeen lose Scott McKenna and have to use Mark Reynolds. The drop off in quality is far bigger for Kilmarnock and Aberdeen. Absolutely clueless as to how you genuinely believe it would hinder Celtic more than anyone considering the size and strength of their squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: The Championship isn't a top flight league, so the rule/agreement doesn't apply to it. This season we've had Jamie MacDonald, Greg Taylor, Stephen O'Donnell, Iain Wilson, Aaron Tshibola, Jordan Jones and Eamonn Brophy called up for international duty. It would be totally disastrous for us - that includes four of our best performers this season. Aberdeen had something like four players in the last Scotland squad too, and I'm guessing they also had guys in youth squads and playing for other countries (McGinn, for example). In fact, it could potentially affect Celtic less given that they have a larger squad of players to choose from and might be able to afford to lose a few. What's the rational for that ? It may not be THE top league in England, however in commercial terms and budgetary terms it's one of the top leagues in the world. The fact that the average English Championship club has a budget of around 20 x more than an average Scottish Premier club surely make these regulations appear rather ridiculous ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Nowhereman said: The ban is utterly ridiculous though. The very fact that you cannot arrange love games in opposition to televised games shows how much football has lost its way over the last twenty years or so "love games" would be a big draw, particularly if they were also televised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 hours ago, craigkillie said: The Championship isn't a top flight league, so the rule/agreement doesn't apply to it. This season we've had Jamie MacDonald, Greg Taylor, Stephen O'Donnell, Iain Wilson, Aaron Tshibola, Jordan Jones and Eamonn Brophy called up for international duty. It would be totally disastrous for us - that includes four of our best performers this season. Aberdeen had something like four players in the last Scotland squad too, and I'm guessing they also had guys in youth squads and playing for other countries (McGinn, for example). In fact, it could potentially affect Celtic less given that they have a larger squad of players to choose from and might be able to afford to lose a few. Were all those guys called up for the same senior squad, or are you selecting things for the same flimsy narrative, while ignoring the concessions I made earlier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 10 hours ago, coprolite said: Excellent use of the false dichotomy. Either agree with a half baked idea or support the cheeks duopoly. No other option exists. Of course other options exist - thousands of them. The problem here is that clubs are desperate for every single 'advancement' until it might not look great for them. That's exactly the same mindset that gave us the SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Were all those guys called up for the same senior squad, or are you selecting things for the same flimsy narrative, while ignoring the concessions I made? MacDonald and O'Donnell were called up for Scotland, Jones for Northern Ireland, Tshibola for DR Congo and Taylor, Wilson and Brophy for Scotland U21s. Most, if not all of them were called up during the most recent international break. Missing these guys for potentially 5 or 6 games per season would indeed be "disastrous" for Killie. You didn't make any "concessions" whatsoever - you said "there's an argument where U21 players are concerned", but didn't actually suggest what you'd do about it. The U21 games are played at the same time as the senior games, so you either play through the international breaks or you don't. If you're suggesting that clubs would be able to postpone games because you have U21 players away, then guess what, Celtic and Rangers also have U21 players away, and therefore you're going to end up with most games postponed anyway. Therefore, I'd suggest that the flimsiest thing here is your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Of course other options exist - thousands of them. The problem here is that clubs are desperate for every single 'advancement' until it might not look great for them. That's exactly the same mindset that gave us the SPL. No. The problem is that the suggestion is unworkable. It adds an extra cost to a club for employing international players. Clubs dislike costs so will minimise this cost by employing fewer internationals and potential internationals. We end up with more players from big nations, with little chance of international selection and fewer from Scotland and NI. As others have said, bigger clubs may be more able to absorb the extra cost. What you have identified as a problem might well be a problem but it's not the problem "here". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 No. The problem is that the suggestion is unworkable. It adds an extra cost to a club for employing international players. Clubs dislike costs so will minimise this cost by employing fewer internationals and potential internationals. We end up with more players from big nations, with little chance of international selection and fewer from Scotland and NI. As others have said, bigger clubs may be more able to absorb the extra cost. What you have identified as a problem might well be a problem but it's not the problem "here".Correct.The only beneficiaries here are Celtic, rangers and the clubs who wouldn’t be competing for the title anyway. The national team would suffer as clubs would flood the league with even more English lower league haddies with no chance of an international call up.Celtic would buy a few more Scott Sinclairs, walk into any team in this league but nowhere near good enough for the England squad. Clubs that sell their club as a platform for international football could no longer do so as truthfully they’d never want their players called up.It’s simply dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 22 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I'll look forward to St Johnstone winning the League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 It's of no surprise that a Queen of the South fan doesn't understand the ramifications of losing players during an international break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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