No New Year games - commercial own goal?

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, WATTOO said:

Whether they're rearranged or scheduled, they're still taking place and are also televised in the case of England and Sky.

We also play rearranged games on those European nights, the point is that we can't originally schedule them (and no other league that I know of, including England, does). The English Premier League and/or Sky have, on occasion, opted to televise those rearranged matches in breach of the UEFA rules, and have accepted the fine in order to do so. The SPFL would not be able to afford that.

[Nowhereman]

The ban is utterly ridiculous though. The very fact that you cannot arrange love games in opposition to televised games shows how much football has lost its way over the last twenty years or so

[NorthBank]

Attending games on New Year's Day is part of the new year celebrations. I have many great memories of attending games and meeting up with old pals who had only come home for the festivities then were heading back to whence they came. It was pretty weird not having a game to go to this year. Big mistake ditching tradition like this.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, craigkillie said:

We also play rearranged games on those European nights, the point is that we can't originally schedule them (and no other league that I know of, including England, does). The English Premier League and/or Sky have, on occasion, opted to televise those rearranged matches in breach of the UEFA rules, and have accepted the fine in order to do so. The SPFL would not be able to afford that.

Do the English Championship not schedule games in direct opposition though and also have them televised by Sky ?

 

[The Master]

On 31/12/2018 at 10:47, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't envy your winter break though.  Depressing January is when you really need your football.

Speaking as a Dundee fan, a lack of football in January lifts the depression.

17 hours ago, craigkillie said:

We also play rearranged games on those European nights, the point is that we can't originally schedule them (and no other league that I know of, including England, does). The English Premier League and/or Sky have, on occasion, opted to televise those rearranged matches in breach of the UEFA rules, and have accepted the fine in order to do so. The SPFL would not be able to afford that.

Just to clear this up - there never was any rule preventing top-flight matches being scheduled, and any other matches being televised, against the Champions League and (to a lesser extent, given it's a Thursday) Europa League.

It was a memorandum of understanding between UEFA and the European Professional Football Leagues (EPFL). Which I suppose led to a de facto rule, but it was never written into any actual rulebook published by UEFA. That MOU expired in 2017 and was only replaced earlier this year (a draft was drawn up in late 2017, before being ratified last February to come into force from the current season. So in effect, the whole of last season was fair game for scheduling at any time.

Here's the revised clauses that cover the scheduling of matches up against the Champions/Europa League:

Quote

6. 3.8.  Subject to Clause 3.9, to ensure that EPFL Member Leagues abstain from scheduling top division matches on dates which are reserved for UEFA club competition matches, in accordance with the UEFA Match Calendar.

7. 3.9.  Without prejudice to the generality of Clause 3.8, EPFL Member Leagues may be allowed to schedule matches on dates reserved for UEFA club competitions when no other date could be found under the following exceptions:

   Top division matches, which had to be postponed due to force majeure or to other reasons beyond the reasonable control of the concerned EPFL Member League, may be rescheduled on dates reserved for UEFA club competition matches, upon agreement with UEFA, when it appears that no real alternative exists.

If such matches are not to be broadcast domestically and/or internationally, no restriction applies as to their kick-off time.

If such matches are to be broadcast domestically and/or internationally, they shall be scheduled in such a way that they are terminated at least 15 minutes before the kick- off of the UEFA club competition matches, subject to UEFA’s approval on a case bycase basis.

The following non-exhaustive list of circumstances are considered to be “out of the control” of the concerned league:

•  Adverse weather conditions;

• Strike and civil unrest;

• Sudden unavailability of a stadium;

• Decision of a competent state authority to move a match;

• Participation of clubs in the FIFA Club World Cup;

• When UEFA itself reschedules matches at dates which are reserved for domestic competitions; and

• If there are no alternative dates available for a club to meet its fixture commitments in order to avoid that a player has to play 2 matches within 72 hours due to the scheduling of a competition sanctioned by FIFA, UEFA and a National Association.

  In such cases, the UEFA Administration must be consulted at least 3 days before the decision to reschedule the domestic match in question has to be taken by the concerned EPFL Member League with a view to coming to an agreement on the date and time for such match.

  UEFA shall consider requests for kick-off time slots overlapping with UEFA competition matches on a case-by-case basis and undertakes to strive to find a positive solution, depending on all circumstances of each individual case. Specifically, the Western European time zone is a factor to be taken into consideration for the granting of such requests.

•  

 

So in practical terms, not a significant change. The SPFL still can't schedule entire fixture rounds in those dates, but we can now play rearranged games so long as they aren't televised, and were postponed because of reasons "out of their control". Which is why sometimes the order of rescheduling might seem odd: a game postponed because of the weather can go on a Champions League night, but not one displaced by, say, the League Cup. 

Whether or not UEFA actually take notice of the SPFL when it comes to rescheduled games is another question entirely.

(Please excuse the stray bullet point below; I can't seem to move the cursor into a position where it can be deleted...)

•  

[tamba_trio]

What about scheduling top league fixtures during International weeks?? It doesn't impact most teams and would avoid the stop-start nature to the season.

Not having games at New Year is obviously dumb, considering how popular the fixtures tend to be. So obviously Scotland would do it.

[Dons_1988]

What about scheduling top league fixtures during International weeks?? It doesn't impact most teams and would avoid the stop-start nature to the season.
Not having games at New Year is obviously dumb, considering how popular the fixtures tend to be. So obviously Scotland would do it.

Nah can’t do that, you can’t start punishing teams for having players away on international duty.

[tamba_trio]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

 

Nah can’t do that, you can’t start punishing teams for having players away on international duty.

 

Well there'd be other options - you could postpone those matches. 

Or just go with it. It'd be a rare equaliser in Scottish footballs horrendous imbalance and might be fun once in a while.

[Monkey Tennis]

47 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

 

Nah can’t do that, you can’t start punishing teams for having players away on international duty.

 

I genuinely think such a 'punishment' would be entirely appropriate.

As Tamba Trio says, it would be a rare and welcome leveller.

[Dons_1988]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I genuinely think such a 'punishment' would be entirely appropriate.

As Tamba Trio says, it would be a rare and welcome leveller.

I can't agree.

I want to see a more level playing field too but not by treating teams differently to each other in this regard.  

This is obviously a selfish example, but theoretically an international break could see us lose Shinnie, Mckenna, Devlin, GMS, Niall Mcginn.  Then if you include under 21's etc then it could be Connor Mclennan, Scott Wright, Bruce Anderson etc too.  We would barely be able to field a team, and that's before you even get to injuries & suspensions.  That surely can't be a sensible outcome?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, The Master said:

 

(Please excuse the stray bullet point below; I can't seem to move the cursor into a position where it can be deleted...)

•  

Laughed too much at this for some reason.

[Monkey Tennis]

20 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I can't agree.

I want to see a more level playing field too but not by treating teams differently to each other in this regard.  

This is obviously a selfish example, but theoretically an international break could see us lose Shinnie, Mckenna, Devlin, GMS, Niall Mcginn.  Then if you include under 21's etc then it could be Connor Mclennan, Scott Wright, Bruce Anderson etc too.  We would barely be able to field a team, and that's before you even get to injuries & suspensions.  That surely can't be a sensible outcome?

No less sensible than structuring the game in such a way as to enable certain clubs to acquire loads of internationals, while most can't afford any.

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No less sensible than structuring the game in such a way as to enable certain clubs to acquire loads of internationals, while most can't afford any.

What about those who produce homegrown internationals?

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, Dons_1988 said:

What about those who produce homegrown internationals?

That's brilliant.

Think of the rewards they'll reap on the field almost every week of the season.  That's before we consider whether they might cash in on the transfer market.

The benefits of such endeavour will be huge, but you can't bear to see them diminished a little on even a very occasional basis.

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

No less sensible than structuring the game in such a way as to enable certain clubs to acquire loads of internationals, while most can't afford any.

I don't agree with you either, and we don't have many International players.

You're completely insulting teams like Saints by claiming they need a "leveller" to compete with teams with International players.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That's brilliant.

Think of the rewards they'll reap on the field almost every week of the season.  That's before we consider whether they might cash in on the transfer market.

The benefits of such endeavour will be huge, but you can't bear to see them diminished a little on even a very occasional basis.

The original example I gave you would see us decimated, not just diminished.  A team like Celtic are far better placed to cope with such demands than a team like us so that's a win to them.

Bridging the financial gap I am all for, this idea is just silly.

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I don't agree with you either, and we don't have many International players.

You're completely insulting teams like Saints by claiming they need a "leveller" to compete with teams with International players.

Ok.

I'll look forward to St Johnstone winning the League.

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The original example I gave you would see us decimated, not just diminished.  A team like Celtic are far better placed to cope with such demands than a team like us so that's a win to them.

Bridging the financial gap I am all for, this idea is just silly.

You're all for it, it would appear, if the bridging is upwards.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Ok.

I'll look forward to St Johnstone winning the League.

Would playing through International breaks increase our chances?

Worth remembering the amount of players Aberdeen and Kilmarnock also lose it International weekends before claiming hamstringing Celtic/Rangers would help others win the league. 

All your doing is feeding this narrative they're unbeatable.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're all for it, it would appear, if the bridging is upwards.

No, that isn't what I said.

But you described it as a leveller, it wouldn't be for us in our pursuit of Celtic.