hk blues Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 23 hours ago, G_Man1985 said: 3 wins all season suggests we struggle to do anything. 1 home win all season. Hamilton might let us beat them as they are nice like that hurt but the others around us we struggle against. Despite all that, we are ahead of St Mirren and only 6 behind Hamilton. Suggests none of the 3 of us have had a great season thus far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: Only 6 points? Where are we going to get 2 wins from ? Providing Hamilton dont pick up any points. Probably tired but our team is so shit. By using blind optimism Gman. We wouldn't be football fans if we didn't have that. Realistically at this point we are finishing 11th (if not 12th), but the reason most go to the football is for that wee bit of magic, that little run that'd see us safe is what supporting a diddy club (So basically everyone bar the OF) is all about. It's unrealistic - but so was the Hearts and Killie fans thinking they have a glimmer of hope of challenging Celtic. Pie and Bovril has too much realism at times due to the nature of opposition fans being only too willing to bring people back down to earth. No need for other Dees to do it too! So let's back the team and pray like fick we are the ones due that little great run that gives us the small buzz that makes the low points worth it! FWIW- I'd punt McIntyre should we lose to St Mirren. Kettlewell and Ferguson have done well for County could the likes of McPake be much worse for us in the league below? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 7 hours ago, G_Man1985 said: Only 6 points? Where are we going to get 2 wins from ? Providing Hamilton dont pick up any points. Probably tired but our team is so shit. 3 points v the bottom club on Saturday and 3 points v 3rd bottom Hamilton who we have beaten twice this season. I'm not saying it's easy but FFS it's hardly beyond the realms of probability that we get them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 wins all season1 home win -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: 2 hours ago, hk blues said: 3 points v the bottom club on Saturday and 3 points v 3rd bottom Hamilton who we have beaten twice this season. I'm not saying it's easy but FFS it's hardly beyond the realms of probability that we get them. Its not but being pessimistic. This is how bad it's got. When you go to every home game and away game it starts to grind and bring you down a little Fair do's. I'm lucky/unlucky enough to be remote from things so I see it differently than you guys - it's black and white for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 10 hours ago, Ludo*1 said: FWIW- I'd punt McIntyre should we lose to St Mirren. Kettlewell and Ferguson have done well for County could the likes of McPake be much worse for us in the league below? You'd recommend punting our manager if we lose to St Mirren? Would that give us a better chance of survival than keeping him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, G_Man1985 said: 39 minutes ago, hk blues said: You'd recommend punting our manager if we lose to St Mirren? Would that give us a better chance of survival than keeping him? Well if we cant beat st.mirren at this moment in time , do we trust him to get us a win ever at this very crucial time of the year ? It's an away game against a team fighting for their lives, just like us - hardly an easy task. Regardless, firing him will pretty much mean we are throwing in the towel, will it not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, hk blues said: You'd recommend punting our manager if we lose to St Mirren? Would that give us a better chance of survival than keeping him? In my opinion, yes. McIntyre now has a win record at Dundee of around 12%. I don't see how a change of a manager that's clearly not working after being rooted to the bottom of the league to a team that'd still have a further game in hand could be a negative thing. Edited March 20, 2019 by Ludo*1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, hk blues said: It's an away game against a team fighting for their lives, just like us - hardly an easy task. Regardless, firing him will pretty much mean we are throwing in the towel, will it not? 7 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: In my opinion, yes. McIntyre now has a win record at Dundee of around 12%. I don't see how a change of a manager that's clearly not working after being rooted to the bottom of the league to a team that'd still have a further game in hand could be a negative thing. Did Dundee not bin Hartley just before the split (on 30 points after 33 games)? Granted that was after a run of 7 defeats but McIntyre's on 4 losses on the bounce as it stands (lose at St Mirren and you take that to 5) but Nelms was apparently looking at finishing 7th or 8th this season when he gave McIntyre the gig. At that point Dundee were 2 points off Motherwell (in 10th), now they're *checks notes* 22 points behind us (in 7th, which is what Nelms was targeting). Even allowing for the squad he inherited from McCann it's difficult to say that McIntyre's even close to meeting the brief Nelms seems to have given him in October. From the outside looking in it seems like McIntyre's sold Nelms on the Ross County model of signing a shitload of players in January to keep you safe. It's also worth bearing in mind County fans were pleased to see the back of him and Roy McGregor was pretty comfortable with the decision to empty McIntyre (even if Coyle was a f**k-up). IIRC County fans on here pretty much called what you could expect from him and the job he's done so far has played out like that. Edited March 20, 2019 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: In my opinion, yes. McIntyre now has a win record at Dundee of around 12%. I don't see how a change of a manager that's clearly not working after being rooted to the bottom of the league to a team that'd still have a further game in hand could be a negative thing. How much of his record is down to what he inherited? I would say we were down with McCann - we still have a fighting chance with McIntyre. Like most, I wasn't over the moon when he was appointed and don't think he is the man in the long-term but firing him now, firing any manager now, reeks of absolutely clutching at straws and I don't think 2 points off 11th justifies giving up. I think we'd be giving up if we fired him after the next game. It's stick with him until the end of the season now IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Did Dundee not bin Hartley just before the split (on 30 points after 33 games)? Granted that was after a run of 7 defeats but McIntyre's on 4 losses on the bounce as it stands (lose at St Mirren and you take that to 5) but Nelms was apparently looking at finishing 7th or 8th this season when he gave McIntyre the gig. At that point Dundee were 2 points off Motherwell (in 10th), now they're *checks notes* 22 points behind us (in 7th, which is what Nelms was targeting). Even allowing for the squad he inherited from McCann it's difficult to say that McIntyre's even close to meeting the brief Nelms seems to have given him in October. From the outside looking in it seems like McIntyre's sold Nelms on the Ross County model of signing a shitload of players in January to keep you safe. It's also worth bearing in mind County fans were pleased to see the back of him and Roy McGregor was pretty comfortable with the decision to empty McIntyre (even if Coyle was a f**k-up). IIRC County fans on here pretty much called what you could expect from him and the job he's done so far has played out like that. We punted Hartley after he admitted he could do no more - in effect he threw in the towel. What else could the BoD when the Boss says I'm done? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, hk blues said: How much of his record is down to what he inherited? I would say we were down with McCann - we still have a fighting chance with McIntyre. Like most, I wasn't over the moon when he was appointed and don't think he is the man in the long-term but firing him now, firing any manager now, reeks of absolutely clutching at straws and I don't think 2 points off 11th justifies giving up. I think we'd be giving up if we fired him after the next game. It's stick with him until the end of the season now IMO. His record since January is: P11 W2 D3 L6 Leaving him with a win record of 18%. Still significantly lower than any other manager we have ever had. Forget the reasons why Hartley left, the new man at that point in the season was the catalyst to us surviving. There is absolutely nothing that suggests we will survive this season particularly so if we lose to St Mirren. To put it into context, with McCann's squad, McIntyre picked up 7 points in 9 games. With his own squad he's picked up 8 points in 9 games (not including the cup draw and subsequent defeat to qots). I genuinely can't see a negative side to us winning McIntyre if we lose to St Mirren whether or not it's deemed as panic stations by opposition fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said: Forget the reasons why Hartley left, the new man at that point in the season was the catalyst to us surviving. Fwiw: this is precisely the point I was getting at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: His record since January is: P11 W2 D3 L6 Leaving him with a win record of 18%. Still significantly lower than any other manager we have ever had. Forget the reasons why Hartley left, the new man at that point in the season was the catalyst to us surviving. There is absolutely nothing that suggests we will survive this season particularly so if we lose to St Mirren. To put it into context, with McCann's squad, McIntyre picked up 7 points in 9 games. With his own squad he's picked up 8 points in 9 games (not including the cup draw and subsequent defeat to qots). I genuinely can't see a negative side to us winning McIntyre if we lose to St Mirren whether or not it's deemed as panic stations by opposition fans. OK - let's put another spin on his record - undefeated in just under half of his games in charge. And Let's not ignore he had to pick up the pieces that were left after McCann's disastrous pre-season and early season start. I don't think we should forget why Hartley left - he said he could do nothing with the team. He had given up. That doesn't mean the team was shite, rather the manager couldn't motivate them. Perhaps anybody coming in would have got them safe - events which followed would suggest McCann was no managerial expert so perhaps you or I could have turned things around. OK. I'm exaggerating to make a point but hopefully you'll see what I'm trying to say. I am not confident the new manager bounce would be so kind to us again. I'm not fully bought into this "it's his squad" argument - it's his squad that he has had to build in double-quick time and around the debris that McCann left. Now, I'm not saying this si different to any other manager's task when he takes on the job, but let's agree that less than a season and 1 transfer window is insufficient time to build your own squad. I just don't agree that his job should hinge on 1 game when we have sufficient games to come to pull ourselves clear regardless of that result. And, how will others view our club and how easily will we get a good replacement with that hanging over us? I doubt we will. No doubt some will say we couldn't get any worse - well, we could and could have already been relegated by now with somebody else in charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 16 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Fwiw: this is precisely the point I was getting at. Sorry mate, I'm not buying that...why didn't you just say so then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 hours ago, hk blues said: 3 points v the bottom club on Saturday and 3 points v 3rd bottom Hamilton who we have beaten twice this season. I'm not saying it's easy but FFS it's hardly beyond the realms of probability that we get them. Does that mean that taking Accies games out of the equation, Saints would be 5 ahead of Dundee? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, Bobby_F said: Does that mean that taking Accies games out of the equation, Saints would be 5 ahead of Dundee? I'm not getting your point? I simply was saying that 6 points isn't impossible to achieve, nothing more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 26 minutes ago, hk blues said: I'm not getting your point? I simply was saying that 6 points isn't impossible to achieve, nothing more. Sorry, was just saying that as so far this season you have beaten Accies twice, and we have lost to them twice, that if you look at a league table without the Accies games in it, we’d actually be 5 ahead of you. You guys should love the Accies 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bobby_F said: Sorry, was just saying that as so far this season you have beaten Accies twice, and we have lost to them twice, that if you look at a league table without the Accies games in it, we’d actually be 5 ahead of you. You guys should love the Accies Got it now. We do love the Accies, unfortunately pretty much everybody loves us - including you guys! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby_F Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Just now, hk blues said: Got it now. We do love the Accies, unfortunately pretty much everybody loves us - including you guys! Let’s hope the Saints continue to love the Dees after this game ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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