Standard of officiating

[paranoid android]

4 hours ago, GordonS said:

I wonder how players and managers would feel if referees were allowed to criticise them.

"Well Andrew, what did you make of Rangers today?"

"Well Chick, I thought a diamond midfield was a mistake and cost them in the wide areas, and the boy Morelos sold the jerseys when he skied an easy volley near the end.

As for the dive, actions like that cost referees their jobs."

More than happy for referees to have their say - open communication is a great thing.

"Well, Andrew - care to describe your thought process behind the penalty you awarded when the attacker fell with no-one near him?"

"I refer you to the answer my faither gave some years ago - he was hit by a coin, you know - you c***s owe me!"

[cmontheloknow]

On 06/12/2018 at 09:01, Dindeleux said:

Who are the SPFL referees and why do you think they are any better?  

I genuinely don't think referee's are any better or worse than they've ever been, I think they probably have a lot of daft rules to follow that makes their job harder than it was 20 years ago........and I'm sure in the 90s people thought the same about referees when compared back to the 70s and 80s.  With the internet/enhanced TV coverage we now get to see more decisions and these are played over and over again.

Some of the guys who are fasttracked from the Juniors up the leagues (like Dallas) will be fasttracked because they stick to the exact rules of the game.  The referees who try to implement any form of common sense simply won't be promoted up.  Thats a shite situation but thats the way it happens.  There is a referee in the Juniors just now by the name of Callum Scott who is universally hated and people talk about him wrecking a game as soon as he is appointed.  He is next in line to be fasttracked up the leagues by all accounts.

Whilst we are on the subject of referees I really wish they would amend the rule about a player not being offside until he goes for the ball before someone gets a bad injury/head knock competing for a ball that they are going to be flagged offside for anyway.  I'm not saying get rid of the rule because I enjoy it when it works with a ball over the top (for example to a winger who then cuts it back for a guy who was offside in the first stage) but when its clear that the only person who will go for the ball is the offside player they should flag straight away.

To be fair, Calum Scott was on the senior list in 2013-14 (at Cat 3 Developing). Now in his 6th year reffing on the Senior list, I wouldn't say he was being fast-tracked to Cat 1.

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, AFCDannyFTH said:

I'd happily see the SPFL bring in foreign referees. The guys that came in when our refs went on strike were brilliant. 

No they weren't. They were fine but not 'brilliant'.

[FuzzyBear]

No they weren't. They were fine but not 'brilliant'.

They were considerably better than what we see week in week out. The wee Israeli ref we had at the Accies game was miles ahead of any Scottish ref I have seen since.

[craigkillie]

The referee from Luxembourg, who was a leading UEFA ref at the time, incorrectly disallowed a Celtic goal against Inverness. Had a Scottish referee made the same decision, there would have been uproar, but because it was a foreign ref it was basically glossed over. The same was probably true at a number of other games - if a well-known Scottish ref like Willie Collum is appointed then most fans go into the game with a predetermined belief that bad decisions are going to go against them and so on, and that colours your view of ever 50-50 decision. When the foreign refs come in, most fans had a deep-seated belief that these guys would be better, and therefore likely had their opinions coloured in the opposite direction into think that everything they did was brilliant.

Do you think that Israeli fans would have held the same opinion of that ref?

[velo army]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The referee from Luxembourg, who was a leading UEFA ref at the time, incorrectly disallowed a Celtic goal against Inverness. Had a Scottish referee made the same decision, there would have been uproar, but because it was a foreign ref it was basically glossed over. The same was probably true at a number of other games - if a well-known Scottish ref like Willie Collum is appointed then most fans go into the game with a predetermined belief that bad decisions are going to go against them and so on, and that colours your view of ever 50-50 decision. When the foreign refs come in, most fans had a deep-seated belief that these guys would be better, and therefore likely had their opinions coloured in the opposite direction into think that everything they did was brilliant.

Do you think that Israeli fans would have held the same opinion of that ref?

This. I remember reading in the late 90's/early 00's that Italian fans thought Colina wasn't anything other than average, and some thought he was terrible. Kim Milton Nielsen had the same treatment from Danish fans. 

Supporters tend not to like their referees. It's part of the relationship we have with them. I don't think the refs in Scotland are any good, but if you switch on a game down south, or a European game, you'll see howling decisions. 

In saying that. Andrew Dallas is a wee turd. 

[craigkillie]

24 minutes ago, velo army said:

In saying that. Andrew Dallas is a wee turd. 

No arguments here. Dallas' attitude is what sets him apart from the others. He immediately adopts an aloof and aggressive attitude which rubs the players up the wrong way, and he doesn't back it up with his refereeing ability.

[HibeeJibee]

On ‎06‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 11:28, Moo said:

Someone on twitter saying the spfl are welcome to trail var on live Scottish matches. Not sure how much truth is behind this but none the less it’s something that desperately needs added to our game.

Some executive at BT Sport - perhaps looking to stir: after all they recently lost Scottish football rights after next season - tweeted that they could pay for VAR at their televised games.

That's clearly not an acceptable solution: some clubs (particularly OF) appear on TV disproportionately. You could have identical controversies in 3 games and one is resolved by VAR because it's on BT, another isn't because it's on another channel, and the third isn't because it's not on TV. That's simply to highlight the clear inequity with using it for some games, but not all, and so without debating the merits or otherwise of VAR.

No-one would suggest playing some Scottish Premiership games with linesmen and some not, or some the old offside rule and some the new, or some the old "penalty + red" rule and some the new. "Selective" use of VAR would, unsurprisingly, introduce fundamentally different officiating and decision-making in "select" games.

[HibeeJibee]

6 hours ago, AFCDannyFTH said:

I'd happily see the SPFL bring in foreign referees. The guys that came in when our refs went on strike were brilliant. 

Myth. I was at one of the few games that went ahead (most were cancelled for lack of officials or fell to snow)... for the Maltese refs at ER it was like a friendly: such was the scrutiny and media attention the players were clearly a little more careful, in particular not backchatting or hounding as usual. As noted a bad call from the Luxembourg big shot was also studiously played down.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

37 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Some executive at BT Sport - perhaps looking to stir: after all they recently lost Scottish football rights after next season - tweeted that they could pay for VAR at their televised games.

That's clearly not an acceptable solution: some clubs (particularly OF) appear on TV disproportionately. You could have identical controversies in 3 games and one is resolved by VAR because it's on BT, another isn't because it's on another channel, and the third isn't because it's not on TV. That's simply to highlight the clear inequity with using it for some games, but not all, and so without debating the merits or otherwise of VAR.

No-one would suggest playing some Scottish Premiership games with linesmen and some not, or some the old offside rule and some the new, or some the old "penalty + red" rule and some the new. "Selective" use of VAR would, unsurprisingly, introduce fundamentally different officiating and decision-making in "select" games.

Now wait a minute. You could argue it's unfair to have VAR at some games and not others, and as it happens I'd be happy to go with it, although I don't have any strong feelings about it.

But even if they did, the matches would still follow the same laws of the game, and not different ones like you suggest.

[Pet Jeden]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The referee from Luxembourg, who was a leading UEFA ref at the time, incorrectly disallowed a Celtic goal against Inverness. Had a Scottish referee made the same decision, there would have been uproar, but because it was a foreign ref it was basically glossed over. The same was probably true at a number of other games - if a well-known Scottish ref like Willie Collum is appointed then most fans go into the game with a predetermined belief that bad decisions are going to go against them and so on, and that colours your view of ever 50-50 decision. When the foreign refs come in, most fans had a deep-seated belief that these guys would be better, and therefore likely had their opinions coloured in the opposite direction into think that everything they did was brilliant.

Do you think that Israeli fans would have held the same opinion of that ref?

A Scottish ref would avoid this risk by giving any marginal decision the way of Celtic or Rangers

[Lex]

Every year for the last 25 years people have been talking about this.

And every year for the next 25 years they will be too.

Self perpetuating.

The more stick refs get the less people want to become refs.

[Illgresi]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

The referee from Luxembourg, who was a leading UEFA ref at the time, incorrectly disallowed a Celtic goal against Inverness. Had a Scottish referee made the same decision, there would have been uproar, but because it was a foreign ref it was basically glossed over. The same was probably true at a number of other games - if a well-known Scottish ref like Willie Collum is appointed then most fans go into the game with a predetermined belief that bad decisions are going to go against them and so on, and that colours your view of ever 50-50 decision. When the foreign refs come in, most fans had a deep-seated belief that these guys would be better, and therefore likely had their opinions coloured in the opposite direction into think that everything they did was brilliant.

Do you think that Israeli fans would have held the same opinion of that ref?

I'm also not convinced that foreign referees are any more 'talented' than ours. What we could be sure of however, is that they wouldn't be systemically biased in favour of their particular flavour of bigot. Whilst there are few imo (most are merely incompetent) there have been some howlers over the years. Mike McCurry springs to mind.

46 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Some executive at BT Sport - perhaps looking to stir: after all they recently lost Scottish football rights after next season - tweeted that they could pay for VAR at their televised games.

That's clearly not an acceptable solution: some clubs (particularly OF) appear on TV disproportionately. You could have identical controversies in 3 games and one is resolved by VAR because it's on BT, another isn't because it's on another channel, and the third isn't because it's not on TV. That's simply to highlight the clear inequity with using it for some games, but not all, and so without debating the merits or otherwise of VAR.

No-one would suggest playing some Scottish Premiership games with linesmen and some not, or some the old offside rule and some the new, or some the old "penalty + red" rule and some the new. "Selective" use of VAR would, unsurprisingly, introduce fundamentally different officiating and decision-making in "select" games.

VAR would generally be a good thing, if applied to all games. That said, I'm not convinced it would actually help some of our referees make the correct decision anyway.

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, HibeeJibee said:

Some executive at BT Sport - perhaps looking to stir: after all they recently lost Scottish football rights after next season - tweeted that they could pay for VAR at their televised games.

That's clearly not an acceptable solution: some clubs (particularly OF) appear on TV disproportionately. You could have identical controversies in 3 games and one is resolved by VAR because it's on BT, another isn't because it's on another channel, and the third isn't because it's not on TV. That's simply to highlight the clear inequity with using it for some games, but not all, and so without debating the merits or otherwise of VAR.

"Selective" use of VAR would, unsurprisingly, introduce fundamentally different officiating and decision-making in "select" games.

I just hope that BT follow through with this and push to use it in next season's Betfred Cup (or at least the games at Hampden) - that's the way it's been introduced in other countries, with proper offline testing first. Should be a selling point in their final season of coverage.

While it may not be acceptable here, last season the Belgian league used VAR in 48 matches in all stadia before having it at every match this season, and not all FA/Carabao Cup games have it. The Dutch league also used goal line technology in different stadiums when it was first introduced (split between Ajax and Feyenoord in 14/15), and even now only three stadiums are certified to use it (Ajax, Feyenoord, PSV).

Only Celtic and Rangers are certified to use GLT because of Europe but if they were allowed to use it in the SPFL then it benefits both teams - remember Lincoln City scoring against Burnley in the FA Cup which was confirmed by GLT. At least VAR in the televised games against Celtic and Rangers would give the other teams a level playing field against them.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

21 minutes ago, Lex said:

The more stick refs get the less people want to become refs.

What a ridiculous argument against crticising someone who makes glaring errors at their job.

 

 

[HibeeJibee]

32 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Now wait a minute. You could argue it's unfair to have VAR at some games and not others, and as it happens I'd be happy to go with it, although I don't have any strong feelings about it.

But even if they did, the matches would still follow the same laws of the game, and not different ones like you suggest.

I was giving examples where the 'same' rule is now applied or interpreted differently.

Play stops for VAR reviews - sometimes open play. Incidents are reviewed differently and by additional people. Two identical incidents would proceed differently with or without VAR.


It shouldn't be acceptable for OF to benefit from goal-line technology and/or VAR disproportionately to other clubs.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

But the same rules are not applied differently. Offsides are still offsides which is not what you suggested.

I've now decided to go for BT's suggestion for live games.

[D.A.F.C]

Stephen Finnie is the only one I have an issue with. So much so I started a thread about it.

 

Refs seem to cop a lot of flack over nothing most weeks but Finnie actually tries to make it all about him. 

[IrishBhoy]

Has anyone noticed the thing Andrew Dallas does to show everyone that he has seen a foul, but is allowing an advantage?

He stares into the space where the foul took place for about 2 or 3 seconds with his arms locked straight...then spins his head theatrically to follow the ball again. Once you have noticed it you will never un-notice it. 

[Daydream]

I don’t think I can recall a game I’ve even been to where a referee’s poor decisions have cost my team. It must have happened I just can’t recall it. Or it doesn’t really bother me for long. Most big decisions in recent years, penalties, red cards etc, again as I recall, I don’t remember any massive grievance. Even with Willie Collum I’ve always felt he was a decent ref and any mistakes benefitted/affected both sides.

It’s a terrible job refs have got and we’re lucky to have them.

Folk who think our top refs have any kind of bias towards a certain team or are ‘out to get’ their team are OFTW IMO. Lunatics 🤪