Standard of officiating

[printer]

VAR is shite.

[Dindeleux]

10 hours ago, AFCDannyFTH said:

I think it's time that the clubs came together to protest the level of officiating in the SPFL.

Whether it's down to bias or sheer incompetence, this crop of referees are the worst we've ever had.  We cannot tolerate this. 

https://twitter.com/compo95/status/1070426620912119812

Collum, Dallas, Madden, McLean to name but a few. All brutal, and all have made game-changing (potentially season defining) howlers in the past month. 

What the league lacks in money, is made up for in effort and passion from both players and fans alike.  We all deserve better from the officials.  We shouldn't be continually punished for their incompetence and inconsistency. 

The SFA are a complete and utter shambles of an organisation and it is hard to see that changing any time soon. Is it time for the SPFL to bring in their own referees? 

Who are the SPFL referees and why do you think they are any better?  

I genuinely don't think referee's are any better or worse than they've ever been, I think they probably have a lot of daft rules to follow that makes their job harder than it was 20 years ago........and I'm sure in the 90s people thought the same about referees when compared back to the 70s and 80s.  With the internet/enhanced TV coverage we now get to see more decisions and these are played over and over again.

Some of the guys who are fasttracked from the Juniors up the leagues (like Dallas) will be fasttracked because they stick to the exact rules of the game.  The referees who try to implement any form of common sense simply won't be promoted up.  Thats a shite situation but thats the way it happens.  There is a referee in the Juniors just now by the name of Callum Scott who is universally hated and people talk about him wrecking a game as soon as he is appointed.  He is next in line to be fasttracked up the leagues by all accounts.

Whilst we are on the subject of referees I really wish they would amend the rule about a player not being offside until he goes for the ball before someone gets a bad injury/head knock competing for a ball that they are going to be flagged offside for anyway.  I'm not saying get rid of the rule because I enjoy it when it works with a ball over the top (for example to a winger who then cuts it back for a guy who was offside in the first stage) but when its clear that the only person who will go for the ball is the offside player they should flag straight away.

[RandomGuy.]

7 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Oooooft. Just seen the St Johnstone penalty.

Relegate Andrew Dallas. Some refs make bad decisions in some games. Dallas makes awful decisions in every game.

On the other controversial incidents tonight. I think Cosgrove was unlucky to get a second yellow but he did go in with his studs up whether he was first to the ball or not. Clancy chopping off a Celtic goal (actually blowing the whistle before the ball was struck). It was a soft foul on Aldred but everybody has acknowledged that Aldred had his shirt pulled.

Dallas on the other hand is just making things up. He has imagined some reality where the St Johnstone player was fouled.

 

Dallas gave it because Haring had dragged Davidson down for an absolute stone wall penalty about ten minutes earlier, and he'd bizarrely given the foul but not a penalty, and Dallas seemed to realise he'd fucked up and "evened it up".

[Jambomo]

9 hours ago, AFCDannyFTH said:

A couple of screens at games available to the officials would cost next to nothing. Trusting them to utilise the equipment would be an issue, however.

I think this is the problem, VAR is still only as good as the officials using it, so if people think there is bias from the officials then VAR won't help. 

I was reading about VAR in the Bundesliga where they have already had it for a season. It isn't very popular and there was talk of getting rid of it because they still felt there were a lot of mistakes being made and that refs could still interpret things as they saw fit rather than necessarily awarding a correct decision.

[Northboy]

10 hours ago, AFCDannyFTH said:

The SFA are a complete and utter shambles of an organisation and it is hard to see that changing any time soon. Is it time for the SPFL to bring in their own referees? 

You have a good point about current refereeing performance but where exactly do you think the SPFL will bring in these referees from and why would the be any better than what we already have?

[BawWatchin]

13 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dallas gave it because Haring had dragged Davidson down for an absolute stone wall penalty about ten minutes earlier, and he'd bizarrely given the foul but not a penalty, and Dallas seemed to realise he'd fucked up and "evened it up".

He gave it because The Rangers were struggling.

[BawWatchin]

Still, it's funny hearing Levein whinge like a petulant child about being "fed up of decisions going against his team". What a short, selective memory he has.

[Pet Jeden]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Dallas gave it because Haring had dragged Davidson down for an absolute stone wall penalty about ten minutes earlier, and he'd bizarrely given the foul but not a penalty, and Dallas seemed to realise he'd fucked up and "evened it up".

That was my original conclusion. But watched the highlights again, Dallas makes a clear "elbowing" gesture as he points to the spot. Tbf you'd have to see it from his angle to understand wtf he thinks he saw. But as there were 3 players between him and  the "incident" you have to assume either the Assistant called it or Dallas just dreamed it. Sadly diving/cheating players is now ingrained in the game. Either way, I don't understand why, if he thought it was an elbow, it wasn't also a red card or at least a yellow.

After his cup final cock-up and now this meltdown, Dallas shouldn't be seen on an SPFL pitch for the rest of the season. But as he's no doubt one of the Lanarkshire in-crowd he'll have another big match  after a token wrist-slap of demotion this weekend.

[peternapper]

Afraid to say if folk think they can move good referees up from the lower divisions they can forget about it as the standard is terrible with very few weeks matches passing with refs not spoiling games. As someone mentioned maybe the way to get ahead as a ref is to gain a reputation for being a disciplinarian handing out cards for any infringement rather than interacting with the players who at the end of the day are who supporters are paying to see. They cant be expected to be 100% correct all the time but how often do you see the linesman look to the ref to decide even whos throw in it is. Refs need to work with the players more closely & do their job in a less look at me manner then they may gain the players respect. 

[Pet Jeden]

2 minutes ago, peternapper said:

Afraid to say if folk think they can move good referees up from the lower divisions they can forget about it as the standard is terrible with very few weeks matches passing with refs not spoiling games. As someone mentioned maybe the way to get ahead as a ref is to gain a reputation for being a disciplinarian handing out cards for any infringement rather than interacting with the players who at the end of the day are who supporters are paying to see. They cant be expected to be 100% correct all the time but how often do you see the linesman look to the ref to decide even whos throw in it is. Refs need to work with the players more closely & do their job in a less look at me manner then they may gain the players respect. 

Here's some possible improvemets.

1. Let's get in some refs/assistants from down south or abroad. It will cost, so less money for players, but big deal. 

2. Let's contract the SRU to oversee the refereeing function. They seem to be able to stamp out dissent and feigning injury.

3. Let's go back to linesman flagging instantly for what they see, instead of waiting to see what the star ref thinks.

4. Let's have a register of officials favourite teams. They do it down south, I believe.

Wouldn't make things perfect, but it would make things better.

[Pet Jeden]

56 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

Still, it's funny hearing Levein whinge like a petulant child about being "fed up of decisions going against his team". What a short, selective memory he has.

How did Neil Lennon's post match interview go ?

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

That was my original conclusion. But watched the highlights again, Dallas makes a clear "elbowing" gesture as he points to the spot. Tbf you'd have to see it from his angle to understand wtf he thinks he saw. But as there were 3 players between him and  the "incident" you have to assume either the Assistant called it or Dallas just dreamed it. Sadly diving/cheating players is now ingrained in the game. Either way, I don't understand why, if he thought it was an elbow, it wasn't also a red card or at least a yellow.

After his cup final cock-up and now this meltdown, Dallas shouldn't be seen on an SPFL pitch for the rest of the season. But as he's no doubt one of the Lanarkshire in-crowd he'll have another big match  after a token wrist-slap of demotion this weekend.

Dallas is absolute fud, who ruins every game he refs and makes some absolutely bizarre decisions.

The Cup Final, and his horrendous mistake last night, should see him dropped a division or something. He'll likely be handed the highest profile match at the weekend.

[killiekranky]

I for one welcome the new approach from the SFA, they have almost wiped out the age old issue of officials leaning towards the " Bigger Clubs",

by employing Referees who are too incompetent  to even contemplate bias.

I salute the blazers in this instance.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

 

4. Let's have a register of officials favourite teams. They do it down south, I believe.

 

This would not be a good idea.

 

[Moo]

Dallas gave it because Haring had dragged Davidson down for an absolute stone wall penalty about ten minutes earlier, and he'd bizarrely given the foul but not a penalty, and Dallas seemed to realise he'd fucked up and "evened it up".

If that’s true then that is the sign of a really poor referee. In no way should a professional especially in this profession cover up a mistake with another.

[peternapper]

4 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Here's some possible improvemets.

1. Let's get in some refs/assistants from down south or abroad. It will cost, so less money for players, but big deal. 

2. Let's contract the SRU to oversee the refereeing function. They seem to be able to stamp out dissent and feigning injury.

3. Let's go back to linesman flagging instantly for what they see, instead of waiting to see what the star ref thinks.

4. Let's have a register of officials favourite teams. They do it down south, I believe.

Wouldn't make things perfect, but it would make things better.

Although the rules should be the same for every game wonder if it would be worth the refs going to the dressing rooms pre game & running through what he expects from the players, similar to what the refs in boxing do.

Also where there is film coverage of matches refs should have to/ want to justify & if needed change decisions that they may have got wrong, again this would lead to more trust in officials

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Moo said:

 

If that’s true then that is the sign of a really poor referee. In no way should a professional especially in this profession cover up a mistake with another.

 

They do it all the time. The penalty decision last night was horrendous, genuinely one of the worst you'll ever see, but he was definitely doing it because he'd fucked up earlier.

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Dindeleux said:

Who are the SPFL referees and why do you think they are any better?  

I genuinely don't think referee's are any better or worse than they've ever been, I think they probably have a lot of daft rules to follow that makes their job harder than it was 20 years ago........and I'm sure in the 90s people thought the same about referees when compared back to the 70s and 80s.  With the internet/enhanced TV coverage we now get to see more decisions and these are played over and over again.

Some of the guys who are fasttracked from the Juniors up the leagues (like Dallas) will be fasttracked because they stick to the exact rules of the game.  The referees who try to implement any form of common sense simply won't be promoted up.  Thats a shite situation but thats the way it happens.  There is a referee in the Juniors just now by the name of Callum Scott who is universally hated and people talk about him wrecking a game as soon as he is appointed.  He is next in line to be fasttracked up the leagues by all accounts.

Whilst we are on the subject of referees I really wish they would amend the rule about a player not being offside until he goes for the ball before someone gets a bad injury/head knock competing for a ball that they are going to be flagged offside for anyway.  I'm not saying get rid of the rule because I enjoy it when it works with a ball over the top (for example to a winger who then cuts it back for a guy who was offside in the first stage) but when its clear that the only person who will go for the ball is the offside player they should flag straight away.

We've had highlights of every game for a long time, I think since the 90s, and before that we got 20 minutes or more of two matches each weekend. My instinct is that refereeing is worse now than it used to be, though obviously memories that far back are unreliable. But I just don't remember the frequency of absolute WTF decisions that we're getting now. Could be random variation too.

What you say about refereeing by the book rings true. It's telling that the best rugby referees apply a lot of interpretation to the rules, based on all factors about the match at that point, and they take their role in creating an entertaining game very seriously. A classic example was Nigel Owens in the Calcutta Cup match last season bringing England back from a breakaway for a Scotland penalty, even though he hadn't called advantage. He did it because he felt the penalty offence wasn't worth slowing the game down for, but when Scotland lost the ball the consequences of that choice became too great and he pulled it back. It was technically against the rules, but that style of refereeing keeps matches flowing. You rarely see it in football. The best referees are the ones you never really notice.

[FuzzyBear]

33 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

That was my original conclusion. But watched the highlights again, Dallas makes a clear "elbowing" gesture as he points to the spot. Tbf you'd have to see it from his angle to understand wtf he thinks he saw. But as there were 3 players between him and  the "incident" you have to assume either the Assistant called it or Dallas just dreamed it. Sadly diving/cheating players is now ingrained in the game. Either way, I don't understand why, if he thought it was an elbow, it wasn't also a red card or at least a yellow.

After his cup final cock-up and now this meltdown, Dallas shouldn't be seen on an SPFL pitch for the rest of the season. But as he's no doubt one of the Lanarkshire in-crowd he'll have another big match  after a token wrist-slap of demotion this weekend.

Nope he is doing Livi v St Mirren this week.

[craigkillie]

6 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said:

Nope he is doing Livi v St Mirren this week.

The weekend appointments would have been made in advance of these midweek fixtures, so that's no surprise.