The F1 Thread

[doulikefish]

Merc have withdrawn there right to appeal so it's done and dusted Max is the champ 

[Mackie The Staggie]

Just now, doulikefish said:

Merc have withdrawn there right to appeal so it's done and dusted Max is the champ 

The announcement last night of a commission to look at what happened kind of indicated that this would be the case, I wonder what else the FIA have promised Mercs to get them to withdraw the appeal.

 

[vikingTON]

On 14/12/2021 at 19:33, flyingscot said:

The main issue in sorting this out is that, for once, Red Bull and Verstappen did nothing wrong.

I'd disagree on this specific point only: Red Bull also did something wrong. Horner should not be lobbying the race director in the same way that Wolff was eventually told to f**k off after trying to coach the race. 

On 15/12/2021 at 00:06, Jinky67 said:

In this segment Martin Brundle talks about Senna and his tendency to lunge into corners saying that Senna would deliberately do this and make the person he was overtaking decide if they were going to crash or not and if that driver backed out he then had them and knew all he had to do in the future was show them a wheel up the inside and they would back off. Describes Max’s style perfectly imo.

It's interesting that you make this observation of the new world champion, just after a race in which he cleanly overtook and defended against Hamilton multiple times (who 'cheated' by using an escape route to retain his place). And a driver whose main cause of unreliability in the 2021 season were a pair of Mercedes cars whose drivers conveniently forgot where their brake pedal was. 

Clearly this is a Verstappen problem though. 

[Stu]

On 12/12/2021 at 14:41, Stu said:

Pint of Toto Wolff’s tears please, barman.

Another round please, barman.

 

[Jinky67]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

It's interesting that you make this observation of the new world champion, just after a race in which he cleanly overtook and defended against Hamilton multiple times (who 'cheated' by using an escape route to retain his place). And a driver whose main cause of unreliability in the 2021 season were a pair of Mercedes cars whose drivers conveniently forgot where their brake pedal was. 

Clearly this is a Verstappen problem though. 

Cheated That’s a hot take that as really Hamilton had nowhere else to go unless you preferred he stood his ground and crashed? 

But the thing is drivers will look to gain an advantage by pushing the rules as far as they can forcing stewards to make a decision just like Verstappen did on the last lap by making 3 different changes of direction after overtaking Hamilton to try break the tow which you will know isn’t allowed but also went unpunished.

They both got away with it, on another day where less was at stake both of them probably would have gotten penalties 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jinky67

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Cheated [emoji23] That’s a hot take that as really Hamilton had nowhere else to go unless you preferred he stood his ground and crashed? 
But the thing is drivers will look to gain an advantage by pushing the rules as far as they can forcing stewards to make a decision just like Verstappen did on the last lap by making 3 different changes of direction after overtaking Hamilton to try break the tow which you will know isn’t allowed but also went unpunished.
They both got away with it, on another day where less was at stake both of them probably would have gotten penalties 

Jesus [emoji23] Stick to mewling away on Celtic threads. Good grief. "Break the tow" [emoji23][emoji23]

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

Cheated That’s a hot take that as really Hamilton had nowhere else to go unless you preferred he stood his ground and crashed? 

lol wut 

He could have tried braking and actually taking the corner - instead of taking the airfield-sized runoff area and just so managing to end 1.5 seconds in front again. He chose not to do so.

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Jesus Stick to mewling away on Celtic threads. Good grief. "Break the tow"

 

Saint Lewis and his divine right to a tow along the straight. I've heard it all now. 

[Raidernation]

Lewis, prams, toys.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59686315

 

Boofuckinghoo!

[parsforlife]

Beginning to think mercades have withdrawn their appeal just so they can go public with their breakdown and not be restrained by having to look like their being professional waiting on the appeal outcome. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

20 minutes ago, Raidernation said:

Lewis, prams, toys.....

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59686315

 

Boofuckinghoo!

That's genuinely delicious. I get the impression this is more important to Woolf than it is to Hamilton. 

[Jinky67]

21 minutes ago, virginton said:

Saint Lewis and his divine right to a tow along the straight. I've heard it all now. 

He doesn’t have a devine right to anything other than the right to expect the driver he is following to make only one change of direction and not three.

 

 

[Stu]

It's interesting he doesn't seem to be sure Hamilton will come back. I think there was more chance of him chucking it if he had won. Maybe that was Wolff's plan too and is why he is so raging.

I can see this being like Ferguson in 2012 - would have retired but for being denied the title at the end, so hangs on for one more season and destroys everyone before chucking it.

[Mr. Brightside]

17 minutes ago, Stu said:

It's interesting he doesn't seem to be sure Hamilton will come back. I think there was more chance of him chucking it if he had won. Maybe that was Wolff's plan too and is why he is so raging.

I can see this being like Ferguson in 2012 - would have retired but for being denied the title at the end, so hangs on for one more season and destroys everyone before chucking it.

He better hope Merc have been working hard on the 2022 car then.

[vikingTON]

It's worth reflecting on the fact that Mercedes clinched the constructors' title yet again on Sunday to continue the most sterile period of dominance in the history of the competition. They have made Ferrari's run from 2000 look like an exercise in the spirit of Corinthian sporting values. Like Ferrari, they have also set things up as a Team Lewis since 2016, instead of letting their drivers trip over each other in a genuinely competitive set of cars. 

For Mercedes to be throwing their toys out of the pram to this degree for failing to win their fucking sixteenth title in succession (driver/constructor) is beyond pathetic. It is not 'showing their competitive edge': it is just a Ron Dennis style exercise in acting like a tosser. 

[vikingTON]

32 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

He doesn’t have a devine right to anything other than the right to expect the driver he is following to make only one change of direction and not three.

The change of direction principle specifically applies to a braking zone. A straight is not a braking zone. 

If Verstappen is moving from left to right then Saint Lewis could just move in a straight line and use both his superior momentum and engine power to close instead. That he couldn't execute a move because his tyres were duff is not someone else's fault. 

[Mr. Brightside]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

The change of direction principle specifically applies to a braking zone. A straight is not a braking zone. 

If Verstappen is moving from left to right then Saint Lewis could just move in a straight line and use both his superior momentum and engine power to close instead. That he couldn't execute a move because his tyres were duff is not someone else's fault. 

He could've also tried defending a little harder/better, maybe take a leaf out of Perez' book.

[The Golden God]

Seen something on Twitter about VW and Porsche maybe getting into F1 in a few years and the replies are just Hamilton fans saying why would they since it’s so corrupt, their tears are glorious.

[flyingscot]

On 15/12/2021 at 00:01, Jinky67 said:

Now it would unthinkable to overturn the decision as Max is a completely innocent party in this, he was presented with an opportunity and he took it like any other driver would have if they found themselves in the same position, however Masis position isn’t tenable after this. In every sport people just want a consistent application of the rules no matter if you agree with the rule or not, this doesn’t happen in F1 and it’s to it’s detriment.

Worth pointing out that this season in Azerbaijan, Masi called the safety car in on the same lap Mazepin unlapped himself. It was admittedly early in the lap but also techincally not correct. This is perhaps the issue with hard and fast rules and why Masi has some degree of flexibility but this has lead us to where we are.

Finishing under the safety car needs to be reviewed as it really should only happen when an incident occurs within a lap or 2 to the end of the race. Equally so is the time to let lapped cars by and I hope the FIA clarifications will fix this.

2 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

Cheated That’s a hot take that as really Hamilton had nowhere else to go unless you preferred he stood his ground and crashed? 

But the thing is drivers will look to gain an advantage by pushing the rules as far as they can forcing stewards to make a decision just like Verstappen did on the last lap by making 3 different changes of direction after overtaking Hamilton to try break the tow which you will know isn’t allowed but also went unpunished.

They both got away with it, on another day where less was at stake both of them probably would have gotten penalties 

Hamilton was extremely lucky with the lap one incident in my view - it wasn't about crashing, he realised making the turn behind Verstappen left him with an acute angle to the apex (potentially vunerable to Perez then) and instead he straight lined the corner and floors it, gaining time and track position. Ridiculous decision by F1 not to investigate it for me, but it is the issue with these nonsense tarmac run off areas. At least install a Sochi like Chicane for cars rejoining from off track to slow them a bit.

The weaving is far more of a grey area in F1, as long as the other driver isn't too close and it's not in a braking zone you can often get away with it. At worst for Verstappen it would have been a black and white flag anyway so no penalty would have resulted.

6 hours ago, virginton said:

I'd disagree on this specific point only: Red Bull also did something wrong. Horner should not be lobbying the race director in the same way that Wolff was eventually told to f**k off after trying to coach the race.

Oh I agree, the lobbying of the race director is ridiculous these days. But we've seen it for years - the 'talk to Charlie' etc and they are all guilty of it. I wonder if the broadcasting of it is to try and reduce it by showing up the people doing it.

Equally, like footballers moaning for decisions, the officials don't need to listen to it.

[scottsdad]

Toto Wolff says he cannot guarantee that Lewis Hamilton will return to F1

They are still crying salty tears.