The F1 Thread

[gannonball]

I lost interest in formula 1 years ago and have despised Hamilton  for years. I only rekindled interest having been feeling pretty withdrawn from lack of crowds at football so found myself watching formula 1 more again on a Sunday.

That last lap though was strange for me as my hatred towards Hamilton has softened purely on his ability as a driver past few months to claw it back and make it the spectacle it was. Was strange to feel so emotionally involved with not really caring who won. Looking forward to next year already.

ETA - I was also fully expecting Hamilton to throw the toys out the pram in the interviews after which could yet happen but I did respect him a bit for his initial humble reaction.

Edited December 12, 2021 by gannonball

[101]

Just now, Mr. Brightside said:

I think the chances of CAS overturning the result would be slim to none, but worth a gamble for Mercedes.

Can't see them finding in favour if Mercedes have said they want the race to be decided under normal racing. The race director has fulfilled that ask.

[The Holiday Song]

Even if It’s decided the rules have been applied wrong, how can the result be overturned (genuine question)..

Only way I can see is they’d have to say mistake made remainder of race invalid, therefore taking placings at time of error. Any precedent for that?

[Mark Connolly]

Some tremendously shite analogies on twitter at the moment

"Erm so one team was like 10-0 up, and you just decided to let the other win on penalties fnarrrr"

[steelmen]

The correct decision would have been to red flag the race and give us a 5 lap sprint race on fresh tyres.

Making the rules up as they go along isn’t right, Masi has to go after this but after the season we’ve had did anyone think it would end any other way?

[doulikefish]

Merc are appealing 

Don't they need new evidence for that?

Probably a smokescreen to buy time for the QC boy to go through the official stewards document against the rules/sporting regs

Edited December 12, 2021 by doulikefish

[Gianfranco]

Forget all the politics, what a season that was. Two phenomenal drivers who were miles ahead of the rest in just about every single gp. Both are greeting faced gits but I guess you have to be to be a winner?
F1 needed a season like this one but it’s still nowhere near as good to watch as the BTCC.


I think the race director will go as who could be bothered listening to Mercedes and Red Bull’s pish anymore.

Hopefully next season sees other teams being much more competitive in terms of winning races.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

3 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

Some tremendously shite analogies on twitter at the moment

"Erm so one team was like 10-0 up, and you just decided to let the other win on penalties fnarrrr"

can't believe red bull invented safety cars just for this race

[senorsoupe]

Appeal, le sigh

I am quickly giving up caring

Congrats Max!!

or 

Congrats Lewis!!

[Michael W]

Seems the only fair way to decide this is to expunge the race and decide the championship based on the standings prior to the race. 

[Aubrey Maturin]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

Seems the only fair way to decide this is to expunge the race and decide the championship based on the standings prior to the race. 

I'd suggest an eat all you can meat competition.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Tynie Mell

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

20 minutes ago, GiGi said:

 

Unlucks

[Mark Connolly]

1 minute ago, Tynie Mell said:

I'd suggest an eat all you can meat competition.

I'm backing Tony Randall in that case

[Ginaro]

26 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said:

No proper explanation from that announcement as to why the decision not to enact pass around was reversed, nor as to why only some of lapped cars got pass around.  Not sure if Mercs will leave it at that tbh, 50/50 on whether we'll see a further appeal in Paris.

What sort of explanation would you like? If Masi says he made a mistake by putting the "no unlapping" message out originally, is he not allowed to rectify that? (perhaps the marshals got the track cleaned quicker than expected as well)

Especially as the Race Director's evidence points out, the purpose of the rule is to remove lapped cars which interfere in the race, and there is a desire not to finish under yellow. Allowing five cars to go past removes the main interference and allows the race to go green.

12 minutes ago, Gianfranco said:

F1 needed a season like this one but it’s still nowhere near as good to watch as the BTCC.

Should copy the BTCC and be able to add on some laps to the race distance when there's a SC.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Ginaro

[FernandosMonobrow]

Despite not being a fan, I actually feel a bit sorry for Hamilton here, he's been shafted IMO. 

Toto on the other hand

And Masi needs fired in to the sea pronto, he's made increasing wild decisions over the last few weeks.

[doulikefish]

96 hrs is the timeframe for Merc to actually lodge the appeal...at least it's finished before top gear kinda

[Boo Khaki]

20 minutes ago, The Holiday Song said:

Even if It’s decided the rules have been applied wrong, how can the result be overturned (genuine question)..

Only way I can see is they’d have to say mistake made remainder of race invalid, therefore taking placings at time of error. Any precedent for that?

Yeah, they retroactively changed the outcome in Brazil one year after there was a colossal pile-up on the last lap, but that was down to them throwing a red flag and having to go on countback, not because of the race officials misinterpreting or misapplying the rules.

I was joking before, but if Merc decide to pursue this through the FIA and CAS, and it is decided that the rules have been misapplied, then the only legitimately fair outcome I can see is to declare the entire race null and void, handing the title to Max anyway.

If you are going to get into a scenario where you artificially doctor the outcome based on what should have happened, then you are opening up a can of worms. Think of the number of times a driver has had his race ruined through no fault of his own due to a mistake by a third party.

[Mackie The Staggie]

13 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Red Bull say Any does not mean All.

That's Red Bull's argument, but we've not had any word from the FIA/Race Stewards on it.

7 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Merc are appealing 

Don't they need new evidence for that?

Probably a smokescreen to buy time for the QC boy to go through the official stewards document against the rules/sporting regs

I would imagine they'll be appealing the interpretation of the rules here and whether proper procedures were followed.....you know, stuff that lawyers love.

7 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

What sort of explanation would you like? If Masi says he made a mistake by putting the "no unlapping" message out originally, is he not allowed to rectify that? (perhaps the marshals got the track cleaned quicker than expected as well)

Especially as the Race Director's evidence points out, the purpose of the rule is to remove lapped cars which interfere in the race, and there is a desire not to finish under yellow. Allowing five cars to go past removes the main interference and allows the race to go green.

Frankly, yes.  I think it could be accepted that a mistake was made or the situation improved better than they had first hoped, but the impression you get is that the race director fliped/flopped on this based on the previous 3 or 4 races of complete incompetance.

Also the only cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were the cars between Lewis and Max, however the lapped cars between Max and Sainz were left there (Danny Ric and Stroll).  It can be argued that if you are to remove the main interference, shouldn't it be the same for all? 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

6 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said:

 

Also the only cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were the cars between Lewis and Max, however the lapped cars between Max and Sainz were left there (Danny Ric and Stroll).  It can be argued that if you are to remove the main interference, shouldn't it be the same for all? 

The fact that some cars were not allowed to unlap themselves is an issue for the drivers that were stuck behind those cars. It is despertion for Mercedes to try and use it as a loop hole to overturn the fact that Lewis was passed on the track.

[steelmen]

Frankly, yes.  I think it could be accepted that a mistake was made or the situation improved better than they had first hoped, but the impression you get is that the race director fliped/flopped on this based on the previous 3 or 4 races of complete incompetance.
Also the only cars that were allowed to unlap themselves were the cars between Lewis and Max, however the lapped cars between Max and Sainz were left there (Danny Ric and Stroll).  It can be argued that if you are to remove the main interference, shouldn't it be the same for all? 

And remember those cars only got between Hamilton and Max because Max pitted for tyres.

It would have been poor to end the season behind the safety car but it should have been done within the rules. It’s a shame that this will end up being decided in court but this is the position Masi has left it in.