The F1 Thread

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

17 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

A few years back I spent a bit of time working out who the "original" teams were of current teams. 

Mercedes were originally Tyrell (then BAR, then Honda, then Brawn, then Mercedes)

Red Bull was originally Stewart (then Jaguar, then Red Bull)

Alpine was first Toleman, then Benetton, then Renault, then Lotus (not the original Lotus, mind), then Renault again, then Alpine. 

I reckon Stewart was probably the last actual start-up team. New teams that come in to F1 usually buy out old teams, or take over their stuff after liquidation. 

Weren't Haas a brand new team? There was also the three new diddy teams that started in 2010. I think they were HRT, Virgin and Team Lotus to start with.

[scottsdad]

Just now, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Weren't Haas a brand new team? There was also the three new diddy teams that started in 2010. I think they were HRT, Virgin and Team Lotus to start with.

Marussia F1 went into liquidation and Hass bought all their gear. You might well be right about these teams. Toyota also, back in 02, might count. As such my suggestion that Stewart were the last is probably bollocks. 

[Boo Khaki]

Super Aguri had a lot of Arrows DNA in the team. Paul Stoddart bought over much of Arrows equipment and facilities when they folded, as well as hiring a lot of the staff into Minardi, but he then sold most of that on to what became Super Aguri before rebranding the Minardi 'franchise' as Torro Rosso.

IIRC Arrows also absorbed some elements of the defunct Ex-Ligier Prost Grand Prix team, so you could argue that Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri is the spiritual successor to about 4 or 5 historic F1 brands. 

Toyota was a legit start-up, but I think you can view them in a slightly different light to Stewart, as they had loads of experience in other formula, had an F1-type setup running in Indycar, and were able to start planning and developing their F1 effort years ahead of actual competition in a similar manner to what Honda did a few years later.

Stewart had Ford's backing as the official customer engine partner, but Ford's participation in F1 was a lot more stand-off than dedicated works teams usually were, and think you can rightly regard Stewart F1 as the last of the genuine privateer type start-ups until the half-arsed trio appeared in 2010. HRT in particular were a shambles, basically turning up at the first race without a fully built car. Highlight of that weekend was Karun Chandhok complaining during the official practice sessions that the teams inability to give him a working car was ruining any chance he had of taking the race win 

IIRC one of the proposed 2010 start-ups was a USF1 effort that was going to be some sort of Lola/Penske/Eagle all-american team run by one of the big knobs from  Indycar. It had been a couple of years in the planning, on/off on/off more than once, before finally committing to appearing on the grid for 2010. They were pretty much 90% ready to race, before they held their hands up and admitted that they didn't have the money available to make it through the entire calendar, and therefore didn't bother applying for acceptance into the Championship. I'm pretty sure this is what HRT turned up with. They basically took over on the fly and appeared with whatever the US effort had developed to that point.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Boo Khaki

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Boo Khaki said:

IIRC one of the proposed 2010 start-ups was a USF1 effort that was going to be some sort of Lola/Penske/Eagle all-american team run by one of the big knobs from  Indycar. It had been a couple of years in the planning, on/off on/off more than once, before finally committing to appearing on the grid for 2010. They were pretty much 90% ready to race, before they held their hands up and admitted that they didn't have the money available to make it through the entire calendar, and therefore didn't bother applying for acceptance into the Championship. I'm pretty sure this is what HRT turned up with. They basically took over on the fly and appeared with whatever the US effort had developed to that point.

I don't think there was a connection between HRT and US F1 - I think they both, along with Virgin and Lotus/Caterham/Whatever the feck they were called all got entries. The US effort never had a hope of making the grid despite a lot of bluster from them. They were miles off getting a car ready. There's a good Dinner With Racers episode with Alex Rossi (I think), who was possibly going to drive for them, where they discuss it. From memory the team seemed really excited about the steering wheel, whereas Rossi was somewhat concerned that was all they had of a car at that point!

There was some mad guy who was trying to create Stefan GP to take up the empty slot. Think he planned having Villeneuve drive and various engineers working for him despite being banned from the sport at that point. It hit the skids as Bridgestone wouldn't give them tyres to go test 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Stu

[Boo Khaki]

Yeah, I'm confusing Campos F1 with the USF1 effort. Both completely amateurish. 

[Stu]

On the subject of shite F1 teams, if you don't already listen to the excellent Bring Back V10s podcast then you have to listen to this episode.

 

[die hard doonhamer]

Perez has signed in with Red Bull for another year. I'm a little surprised by that, tbh.

[IainMorton]

 

[Gianfranco]

 

Those onboards with Alonso were a view and a half. It certainly made driving a F1 car look a lot more tricky.

[JamesP_81]

They've had those visor cams in Indy for a while and it completely changes what comes across to the viewer . Wish they would us them in race .

[jaggyness]

Spa really is the daddy of grand prix circuits. Even though it's a long lap plenty of overtaking opportunities

[Mark Connolly]

Have to say, Vettel constantly goes up in my estimation when stuff like this is happening

[Mr. Brightside]

I'm getting kinda annoyed by the whole "it's too dangerous" or "they need to change Eau Rouge" type stuff. As Di Resta just said at some point the drivers need to accept some blame. Norris was going too fast for sketchy conditions and the W Series crash yesterday they were all still on dry tyres. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Mr. Brightside

[flyingscot]

Agreed, don't think it looked that dangerous. Lando was pushing the limits and got caught out. Shame as he was on for pole. 

[jaggyness]

I'm getting kinda annoyed by the whole "it's too dangerous" or "they need to change Eau Rouge" type stuff. As Di Resta just said at some point the drivers need to accept some blame. Norris was going too fast for sketchy conditions and the W Series crash yesterday they were all still on dry tyres. 

There's absolutely blame to be apportioned to the drivers. Listening to Martin Brundle's commentary he suggested a slightly incorrect line or not driving to the track conditions as the cause.

[Mr. Brightside]

If you don't want to race, don't. 

[Iminavest]

Lando admitting he dropped it should be end of discussion. Eyes lit up at potentially his first pole and he's pushed just too much.

Q3 tomorrow morning at this rate?

[Mackie The Staggie]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

If you don't want to race, don't. 

There's a certain degree of that, but sometimes have to save the drivers from themselves. 

 

[Mr. Brightside]

Love seeing big Bernd absolutely wringing the neck of that Merc.

[Mr. Brightside]

3 minutes ago, Mackie The Staggie said:

There's a certain degree of that, but sometimes have to save the drivers from themselves. 

 

You're probably correct, but even that annoys me. They're all on the radio saying it's dangerous to be out there, yet they are out there and none of them are taking it easy.

Edited August 28, 2021 by Mr. Brightside