Scotland v Israel

[craigkillie]

28 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said:

Really? He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Scottish. McGregor has always been a good player and gets left out unless absolutely needed. Armstrong got sold despite being good enough to start and wasn't a regular before that.

Rodgers will only start Scottish players if he feels he absolutely has to. 

Celtic have played 28 games so far this season, and their Scottish players have totalled 187 appearances between them. That works out as 6.68 appearances per match by Scottish players. They have used a total of 11 different Scottish players this season, and 8 of those have played in more than half of their matches.

[Diamonds are Forever]

7 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I think you're harsh on a few players there. Souttar has been absolutely fine and is much of a muchness with Bates, O'Donnell while not good enough to be a long term option is clearly superior to Paterson at right back, Naismith is fine as a third choice centre forward behind Fletcher and possibly Paterson, and Russell is one of those players who's always going to float around the squad as cover while not being good enough to start, but is a better option to bring off the bench than Phillips or GMS.

Complete agreed on the players who are starting though, the energy in the middle and pace of the wingers makes such a refreshing difference from watching Kevin McDonald plod about and delay every pass until five seconds after the opposition set their defence or Matt Ritchie cutting inside into a wall of opponents every single time he gets the ball. There's still a debate to be had about finding a balance to that against better sides and what holding midfielders we could bring on for who, but getting players who are comfortable moving it quickly into the team is the big improvement.

 

I think Soutar can progress to a decent centre back, just don't think he is good enough to start at the moment. As for the others - Naismith, O'Donnell, Russell, McGinn - I've no issue with them being around as back up and accept that up front and at right back we have limited options. The problem was that they were all starting, together. One of them within a better team you can carry (like Paterson at right back last night) but 3-4 players of that level is going to make it difficult to compete.

[Diamonds are Forever]

55 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said:

Really? He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Scottish. McGregor has always been a good player and gets left out unless absolutely needed. Armstrong got sold despite being good enough to start and wasn't a regular before that.

Rodgers will only start Scottish players if he feels he absolutely has to. 

 

Or because Dembele is a far better footballer.

McGregor, Armstrong, Forrest and even Brown were all Scots players that many Celtic fans had written off as being not good enough or finished before Rodgers arrived. No-one would have batted an eyelid if he had shipped them on. He's revitalised Brown and Forrest and brought on Armstrong and McGregor hugely, strange behaviour for someone with an anti-Scottish agenda.

[BucksburnDandy]

Delighted to win last night and ultimately it is a big result in terms of trying to qualify. It seems our management team grasped what a great chance this Nations League is to qualify, which too many "football people" haven't realised at all (Willie Miller on Sportsound last night for one).

Firstly the positives:
1) We look very entertaining going forward in this formation. The quality of passing and the ingenuity in tight areas to open up the Israelis at times last night was superb. Stick like this and we're going to score plenty
2) The formation. It's clearly what suits our personnel best and what we look most comfortable in. The Kieran Tierney conundrum has a simple answer now, for the good of the team, right back
3) The realisation nearly a year into his time from Alex McLeish that Stuart Armstrong makes a huge difference to us. Armstrong's direct running and smart passing really does set the tempo for how we play and what we create. We have been a dreadful side without him
4) The emergence of McKenna, Bates and Christie. All young lads, all stepping up to the plate in this double header superbly well. Couple that with Forrest and Fraser showing up more prominently, things look a little brighter
5) Winning the group, securing a playoff berth and ultimately being two games from a major championship.

A few small negatives:
1) The two goals lost were absolutely dreadful. That they were nearly identical is not acceptable. Both should have been closed by the sitting midfielders. I'll cut Callum McGregor some slack given how new he is in there but we can't keep losing cheap goals like that
2) Paterson at right back is a bombscare
3) Diving in with the subs immediately after the Israeli second goal. While Shinnie was exactly what we needed at that point, Phillips was not and ultimately did little to hold the ball up at all. A minute or two to gather thoughts may not have been a bad thing.
4) The attendance, dreadful

All in all though a good night for the few that turned out.

[Connor7]

Been very critical of the national team recently. Guess it can be very frustrating for guys around my age as I have never seen us at a major tournament yet. Only 2 when it was France’98.

But the last two performances have been very encouraging. Albeit not against the strongest of opposition. But you can only beat who’s in front of you.

At this early stage, big Eck’s target was to win the group and he has done that.

It will relive some of the pressure, but he has to try and get off to a good start when the qualifiers come around in March.

Looking forward to it, what a difference a few wins can make to the confidence!

[S7C]

3 hours ago, Principal Flutie said:

Really? He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Scottish. McGregor has always been a good player and gets left out unless absolutely needed. Armstrong got sold despite being good enough to start and wasn't a regular before that.

Rodgers will only start Scottish players if he feels he absolutely has to. 

As has already been stated, this is nonsense.

[MickeyPaul]

5 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I agree that McGregor has been questionable defensively,when he's played deeper for us, but he is starting to play in that role for Celtic too and seems to be getting groomed as the next Scott Brown..

I really cannot see McGregor filling a defensive role for either Celtic or Scotland in the long-term. It would be a waste of his talents in my opinion in that he can score goals, he can create chances, he's decent at going past players to create a wee bit of space and he can run for all time apparently. I believe Scotland need players like that a bit further forward.  Also, he doesn't have that combative style. There's no aggression! He doesn't really tackle and niggle and violently slam into the opposition like a McGinn or a Brown. He's more prone to standing off (eh!) and just trying to fill space and observe what's going to happen. 

I'm not saying we shouldn't have technically impressive players playing defensive roles incidentally. Nay... thrice.. etc. I'm saying we need to make the most of what we have which generally means having someone that can't really pass the ball or create (Brown) at the back just... stopping the opposition and being a pest. At the moment, McGinn seems the most "Brown-like" player we have (and I don't mean shite haha etc). He runs a lot, he can break up play he can sometimes pass the ball to teammates... he can physically kick the ball.... I know he's MoM pretty much every Villa game since joining and I hope he learns some composure like those continentals. What was I talking about? McGregor I like attacking... that was it. Sorry.

[King Kebab]

I really cannot see McGregor filling a defensive role for either Celtic or Scotland in the long-term. It would be a waste of his talents in my opinion in that he can score goals, he can create chances, he's decent at going past players to create a wee bit of space and he can run for all time apparently. I believe Scotland need players like that a bit further forward.  Also, he doesn't have that combative style. There's no aggression! He doesn't really tackle and niggle and violently slam into the opposition like a McGinn or a Brown. He's more prone to standing off (eh!) and just trying to fill space and observe what's going to happen.   I'm not saying we shouldn't have technically impressive players playing defensive roles incidentally. Nay... thrice.. etc. I'm saying we need to make the most of what we have which generally means having someone that can't really pass the ball or create (Brown) at the back just... stopping the opposition and being a pest. At the moment, McGinn seems the most "Brown-like" player we have (and I don't mean shite haha etc). He runs a lot, he can break up play he can sometimes pass the ball to teammates... he can physically kick the ball.... I know he's MoM pretty much every Villa game since joining and I hope he learns some composure like those continentals. What was I talking about? McGregor I like attacking... that was it. Sorry.  

 

 

I think regarding the defensive midfielder position our best hope is McTominay, as long as he continues to develop and more importantly gets more game time at his Club!!! 

 

I like McGinn but I prefer a more composed player with a wider range of passing and for me McTominay has shown more potential for that than McGinn, who really does seem to be still stuck at the "run around like a maddy" stage of his development, I thought that might have been curtailed a bit playing at Villa, I haven't seen enough of their games admittedly to say that it actually hasn't but what little I have seen, he seems just the same. I just feel more composure is required at international level and for me McTominay has that, but as I said he has to be getting games for his Club!!!

 

[MickeyPaul]

1 minute ago, King Kebab said:

McTominay..

I have to confess, I've hardly seen him play so he didn't come to mind at all.  McGregor isn't Scotland's new Brown though... I pray.

[GordonS]

6 hours ago, Principal Flutie said:

Brown will stroll back into the team. He's one of the very few Scottish players that Rodgers will pick every time. It takes a fairly special thing to make Rodgers pick a Scottish player.

 

5 hours ago, Principal Flutie said:

Really? He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Scottish. McGregor has always been a good player and gets left out unless absolutely needed. Armstrong got sold despite being good enough to start and wasn't a regular before that.

Rodgers will only start Scottish players if he feels he absolutely has to. 

The players Rodgers has relied most on this season are Tierney, McGregor, Gordon and Boyata. Three Scots out of four. Just behind them is Forrest, and since October Ryan Christie has become an integral part of the team. How many teams in the premier league have five Scots among the near-certain starters? Then there's Brown, who would be playing every week but for injury, and Jack Hendry, who Rodgers has invested in and kept picking him even when his form has been questionable. He's given Michael Johnson 4 starts and 5 appearances off the bench, and Lewis Morgan has been getting more time. Even the reserve keeper is Scottish.

Armstrong wanted to leave. As he said; "As an individual I wanted something new, a new challenge, and if I hadn't taken that opportunity I would have regretted it..." "I wouldn't say I miss Scottish football. I had my time. I was very grateful for it and had a lot of nice memories." "I would say it's a different type of challenge. If I'd stayed at Celtic and continued to have success, I'd view my career when it finished as a very good one and a very successful one... I think each individual is different, they'll have their own desires and want to have their own experiences.... I grew up watching a lot of Premier League - it's something I dreamed about as a young player. That was my own interest and something I'm very happy to be experiencing right now." Rodgers said; "Of course you will be sad to lose good players but from the club's perspective they have done good business and Stuart achieves his dream so I am really happy for him." Plus, the offer was really big for a guy Celtic can live without.

This is one of those times you need to just say "yeah, that was wide of the mark, fair enough."

[Merkie84]

On 21 November 2018 at 07:19, GordonS said:

Coooombe gave a good answer, but just to answer the question directly in case it's not obvious:

Group winners never cascade up to a tougher set of play-offs. If there's not enough in a League to make up the four spots, they reach into the second-placed teams in the next league down. So a team that finished second in a group might get a second chance at a play off because those above have all qualified, but they'll get a tougher play-off than if they'd won their group.

However...

I think that if all the League A teams qualify, you would have four lower-finishers than the play-offs for the League below!

Another positive to take from this campaign is our promotion to Group B.

Not only will we be playing more glamorous teams, but the above senario could very well benifit Scotland next time out.

Winning a group B and playoffs will obviously be much harder, but if we were to finish second, we could well find ourselves with an easier route to the tournament if group A and B teams qualify as expected. 

 

 

N.B I have no idea how the nations league will affect the World Cup qualifying next time it is staged in 2 years time. I am not sure the powers that be have it worked out either. A modest and achievable aim should be to remain in group B for the next Nations league that has Euro qualifying places. 

However, if we were to get relegated to group C again, this campaign has shown we should be confident at getting through the groups and into the playoffs.

 

 

[forameus]

5 hours ago, Merkie84 said:

Another positive to take from this campaign is our promotion to Group B.

Not only will we be playing more glamorous teams, but the above senario could very well benifit Scotland next time out.

Winning a group B and playoffs will obviously be much harder, but if we were to finish second, we could well find ourselves with an easier route to the tournament if group A and B teams qualify as expected. 

 

 

N.B I have no idea how the nations league will affect the World Cup qualifying next time it is staged in 2 years time. I am not sure the powers that be have it worked out either. A modest and achievable aim should be to remain in group B for the next Nations league that has Euro qualifying places. 

However, if we were to get relegated to group C again, this campaign has shown we should be confident at getting through the groups and into the playoffs.

 

 

At the moment it doesn't affect World Cup Qualifying at all, and if it does it's only going to offer a small number of places.  The last bit is the good part though.  We can enjoy the Division B jolly in 2 years time, knowing that even if we do get sent straight back down, it'll mean an "easier" route for Euro 2024.  

[The Moonster]

14 hours ago, Principal Flutie said:

He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Scottish.

 

[Honest_Ally]

1 hour ago, The Moonster said:

He signed a striker for a record fee basically because Griffiths is Shite.

Fixed.

[DA Baracus]

Once fit again I'd have Griffiths back in the Scotland team.

[DA Baracus]

Provided he doesn't full Riordan.

 

Never go full Riordan.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

I'd have Riordan back in the squad provided he doesn't look like a thumb. 

[charger29]

Up two places to 38th in the fifa rankings after the two wins. We overtake two European teams and are now in the middle of pot 3 for the world cup quali draw in July next year (assuming it keeps a similar format).

The first 4 matchdays of the Euro quali are the only relevant fixtures left before the draw.

[JamesM82]

49 minutes ago, charger29 said:

Up two places to 38th in the fifa rankings after the two wins. We overtake two European teams and are now in the middle of pot 3 for the world cup quali draw in July next year (assuming it keeps a similar format).

The first 4 matchdays of the Euro quali are the only relevant fixtures left before the draw.

Aren't you assuming that they just use the same system as last time? I don't see anything on the FIFA site or Wikipedia about the format being used for 2022. That would normally be a reasonable assumption, but we now have the Nations League. Presumably UEFA would want that to be integrated with World Cup qualifying.

[come on shire]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 21:35, Jacksgranda said:

I bet Forrest wouldn't have scored a hat trick against Palestine...

Technically he MAY have lol.  My understanding is that a few of the Israeli squad were Arabs.  Whether they're from Palestine though I'm unsure.