A World Government

[renton]

32 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

So fully automated luxury communism? Cheers, mates.

 

No, sorry. I can’t understand how someone can look at the ideology of tech billionaires atm and have any hope that technology can save us. They’re practically trying to bring back feudalism and pull up the drawbridge. We need an ideological construct to drive how we use technology, not just rely on it as a neutral actor that is intrinsically progressive.

My point is that the ideology follows the technology. We don't build new sociological constructs and then wait for something to come along and make them possible (or we do and it never works - looking at you Communism). Technological breakthrough occurs first, then the ideology comes along afterwards to bring some form of equilibrium for society to function with it. The information revloution, the digital economy - those will all drive Capitalism eventually into the ground, but the major issues of the day: Pre-existing Climate Change issues and the now burgeoning issues around personal privacy still need to be worked around. I don't think Socialism as it exists today has an answer to any of that. The privacy issue in particular is going to need a radical re-think on how permissive we need to be as a society. Climate change, I sometimes worry will only be got to grips with by some kind of authoritarianism - the kind of thing you do when you  mobilise a country for a full scale industrial WW2 style conflict. We may have to re-role whole industrial blocs to churning out windmills and batteries in the same way we used to stamp out tanks and Spitfires: The Manhatten project writ large.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, renton said:

My point is that the ideology follows the technology. We don't build new sociological constructs and then wait for something to come along and make them possible (or we do and it never works - looking at you Communism). Technological breakthrough occurs first, then the ideology comes along afterwards to bring some form of equilibrium for society to function with it. The information revloution, the digital economy - those will all drive Capitalism eventually into the ground, but the major issues of the day: Pre-existing Climate Change issues and the now burgeoning issues around personal privacy still need to be worked around. I don't think Socialism as it exists today has an answer to any of that. The privacy issue in particular is going to need a radical re-think on how permissive we need to be as a society. Climate change, I sometimes worry will only be got to grips with by some kind of authoritarianism - the kind of thing you do when you  mobilise a country for a full scale industrial WW2 style conflict. We may have to re-role whole industrial blocs to churning out windmills and batteries in the same way we used to stamp out tanks and Spitfires: The Manhatten project writ large.

 

I think socialism is considering these issues all the time. I think it's notable that two of the most prominent socialist writers in George Monbiot (regardless of him being a bit of a w****r) and Naomi Klein have made their name discussing climate change. Personally I would recommend Peter Frase's Four Futures as a good primer for how socialists are thinking the world can go in an accessible short read. I can send it if you like? I've heard good things about Adam Greenfield's Radical Technologies, Nick Srnicek's Inventing The Future, and Andreas Malm's books although I can't speak for them myself as I'm either waiting to buy them or am just beginning to work through them myself. The World Transformed has been discussing climate change as well with its obvious Labour affiliation while someone sent me the below. Genuine question btw but what are the SNP or wider Yes movement saying or writing about climate change and the future of technology? I appreciate the relative sizes of the movements are incomparable but I haven't heard much.

http://generalintellectunit.net/e/022-transforming-technology-part-1/

[Suspect Device]

Haven't we already got a world government.

The Jews run the world, apparently. Or it might be the Illuminati.

[Alert Mongoose]

A good example would be the banking sector. They spend millions developing technology to encourage us to online/phone app banking. A year later they punt all their staff citing 'changes in customer methods'.  Sadly ideology is sometimes too late. Capitalism is accelerating our end. 

[BawWatchin]

16 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said:

Is this remotely possible in the future?

It already is.

[Detournement]

Dealing with climate change is only possible by curbing growth, reducing consumption and redistribution of wealth on a scale never seen before.

It won't happen in a capitalist global economy.

[D.A.F.C]

The world is doomed and won’t last, too many psychopaths and greedy fuckers running things.

[coprolite]

too many people will always put the interests of their class/caste/religion/country/clan/party above the interests of humanity.

Possible only with a hegemonic totalitarian regime imo. 

In which case i doubt it would be much of a laugh.

[JamieThomas]

It's all fun and games until we piss off the planet Klendathu.

[welshbairn]

On 15/11/2018 at 13:28, Alert Mongoose said:

A good example would be the banking sector. They spend millions developing technology to encourage us to online/phone app banking. A year later they punt all their staff citing 'changes in customer methods'.  Sadly ideology is sometimes too late. Capitalism is accelerating our end. 

That's part of Ai and robots in all jobs, manufacturing, accountancy, everything. The problem they have is if the jobs are replaced who's going to be the consumers to buy their shite?

[BawWatchin]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

That's part of Ai and robots in all jobs, manufacturing, accountancy, everything. The problem they have is if the jobs are replaced who's going to be the consumers to buy their shite?

That's why there's been a lot of talk over the past few years over a basic income for everyone. Sooner or later, everybody will have to rely on Government handouts to survive. AI will take us to the ultimate communist state, where machines provide all of the bread and butter.

Some people will say "well we'll still need people to build/fix machines. No we won't, we'll have machines to do that as well.

[NotThePars]

Oh Aaron Bastaaaaani

[Jambo: First Blood]

Probably the smartest man of all time, John von Neumann, advocated a world government. Certainly some advocates but a long way off yet if even ever possible.

[NotThePars]

So did Morgenthau and similar realists when confronted with the alternative of permanent nuclear deterrence.

[BawWatchin]

36 minutes ago, Jambo: First Blood said:

Probably the smartest man of all time, John von Neumann, advocated a world government. Certainly some advocates but a long way off yet if even ever possible.

We already have a world government. We just never hear about them. But they ultimately control the puppets that we elect.

[Jambo: First Blood]

5 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

We already have a world government. We just never hear about them. But they ultimately control the puppets that we elect.

Exactly!! It's those Jewish bankers innit?!?!

Thanks for the recommendation in the headgear! Now I can be just like you and protect myself from the Jew bankers contrails. They use it to control our minds!

[BawWatchin]

You're an idiot. Which is understandable, as they've been dumbing people down for decades.

[Miguel Sanchez]

[Citation Needed]

[weegienative]

On 14/11/2018 at 23:00, NotThePars said:

Unless we, at the very least, move towards international socialism the entire world is going to boil.

Do You ever notice those living in communist cough sorry socialist countries want to escape to the free market economics at the first opportunity? Strange.

[BawWatchin]

1 hour ago, weegienative said:

Do You ever notice those living in communist cough sorry socialist countries want to escape to the free market economics at the first opportunity? Strange.

That's because free markets generate competition that socialist economies do not. But if you eliminate free markets world wide and only have socialism, then there is nothing to crush it.