Cup final day on Sunday

[GordonS]

Firhill, 4.10pm, BBC Alba or  £5 for adults, £2 for concessions, and under 16’s go free.

Beautiful new trophy being awarded for the first time.

Hibs looking to make it three Scottish Cups in a row, and six cups in a row - I wonder how many they'd trade for one league title.

Motherwell look the best team to have won the SWPL2 in a while and if they're good enough to beat Spartans 3-1, they might be good enough to put up a fight. You'd have to think a thoroughly pissed-off Hibs will be far too good though.

Nice wee preview with Motherwell's Maxine Welsh here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46043137 

[GordonS]

12 minutes to go but I think it's safe to call it...

There was always going to be a big gulf here, but there's no denying Motherwell have been terrible. At leat half the goals have been self-inflicted.

Well done Hibs, hope they can kick on next season, go one further in the league and do something in Europe.

[pleslie99]

This reiterates my point from the other thread about the game in our country. The top teams are so far ahead it's embarrassing. 8-0 in a national cup final? That should not and would not happen anywhere else. This goes with the 9-0 Celtic were beat in the swpl cup final. Fantastic to see the top 2 representing us in Europe but these kind of results do nothing for the other girls playing football in Scotland

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

This reiterates my point from the other thread about the game in our country. The top teams are so far ahead it's embarrassing. 8-0 in a national cup final? That should not and would not happen anywhere else. This goes with the 9-0 Celtic were beat in the swpl cup final. Fantastic to see the top 2 representing us in Europe but these kind of results do nothing for the other girls playing football in Scotland

The gap's huge, but fair play to Motherwell, they're on the up and the club are backing the team. They had a five-page feature on one of the players in their programme yesterday, which is a sign that at least they're interested (I'm looking at you, Aberdeen).

I wonder if it might be worth seeding the top two all the way to the final until someone has a chance of actually beating one of them.

[pleslie99]

The gap's huge, but fair play to Motherwell, they're on the up and the club are backing the team. They had a five-page feature on one of the players in their programme yesterday, which is a sign that at least they're interested (I'm looking at you, Aberdeen).
I wonder if it might be worth seeding the top two all the way to the final until someone has a chance of actually beating one of them.

Seeding the top 2 just makes the problem bigger. The woman's Scottish cup is a farcical competition and one that a lot of teams (and I know this as fact) treat with contempt as they are forced to PAY to play in it. The scores that these 2 teams dish out to the others is ridiculous, celtic and motherwell have now been on the end of embarrssing scorelines in finals this year and both are supposedly 2 of the strongest "rest". Hibs and Glasgow city have not been beaten in this competition by anyone other than themselves for as long as records are showing online (2009), that alone is a ridiculous fact. At least by them meeting somewhere before the final means that another team will get the opportunity to play in a final so seeding wouldn't help in my opinion.
I don't know what the solution is, as long as city and hibs continue to cherry pick the best players at the other clubs nothing will change. It's another case of the rich getting richer. Yes there is some good things going on at other clubs, I'm sure Eddie Wolecki Black will have Celtic more competitive next year, he alone may be able to attract a couple of girls, but they will still be miles behind. If I was a girl playing football in this country for anyone other than those 2, It wouldn't be long before I was disillusioned.

[HibeeJibee]

Preview in today's paper:
 

Quote

An embarrassing 11-0 home defeat for Motherwell when the teams last met on Scottish Cup business in June 2017 can be discounted. At the end of last season the Women of Steel, as they are known, were taken out of the community trust and given an enhanced status within the club. Eddie Wolecki Black, massively successful with Glasgow City prior to a near fatal stroke when at Airdrie, was appointed manager and totally reshaped the squad. The outcome was that Motherwell won SWPL2 by 21 points. Wolecki Black left for Celtic when the league was wrapped up at the end of August, but the positive results have continued under his long-term assistant, Donald Jennow.

I suppose, literally-speaking, it was correct - but still...

[GordonS]

38 minutes ago, pleslie99 said:

Seeding the top 2 just makes the problem bigger. The woman's Scottish cup is a farcical competition and one that a lot of teams (and I know this as fact) treat with contempt as they are forced to PAY to play in it. The scores that these 2 teams dish out to the others is ridiculous, celtic and motherwell have now been on the end of embarrssing scorelines in finals this year and both are supposedly 2 of the strongest "rest". Hibs and Glasgow city have not been beaten in this competition by anyone other than themselves for as long as records are showing online (2009), that alone is a ridiculous fact. At least by them meeting somewhere before the final means that another team will get the opportunity to play in a final so seeding wouldn't help in my opinion.
I don't know what the solution is, as long as city and hibs continue to cherry pick the best players at the other clubs nothing will change. It's another case of the rich getting richer. Yes there is some good things going on at other clubs, I'm sure Eddie Wolecki Black will have Celtic more competitive next year, he alone may be able to attract a couple of girls, but they will still be miles behind. If I was a girl playing football in this country for anyone other than those 2, It wouldn't be long before I was disillusioned.

I suggested seeding because I think it's better that the whumpings are handed out earlier and the final could be a showpiece occasion. Matches between Glasgow and Hibs have been tight for a long time now and it's certainly something I'll watch. The only finals I've been to before were between those two.

I don't think I'd call either club rich or say that winning the cup makes Hibs richer. They're just marginally the least skint. The pull for players surely can't be financial, it has to be about ambition more than anything else.

I think the playing field will become more level when other clubs develop more quality players. Surely we can hope for more than 40 decent players in the country? It's not like Glasgow and Hibs are bringing in quality players from abroad, they're just getting best of what's available in this country (and not good enough to play for money elsewhere). In the men's game, if Celtic and Rangers could only pick from home-grown players, minus the dozen or so best who are playing outside the country, they wouldn't be beating everyone else 8-0 every week. The problem really stems from the fact that we've still only got a handful of good players. 

As for demoralising, clubs like Spartans still win more than they lose, and their young players are looking to develop. There's plenty to play for, and most are playing for the love of the game rather than league titles and international caps. 

And the Scottish Cup - there were some brutal withdrawals this season, for apparently terrible reasons. Maybe there should be a qualifying cup to get in with the better clubs.

[HibeeJibee]

Final won 8-0.

Half of QFs won 11-0.

Last 16 included 1 scratch, an 8-1 and an 11-0.

Last 32 (where "top 16" join) included 3 scratches, a 7-0, 12-0, 8-1 and 7-0.

By any measure that's pretty mismatched.


Since the players aren't professional, isn't there any way to introduce quotas, caps or drafts?

[pleslie99]

I suggested seeding because I think it's better that the whumpings are handed out earlier and the final could be a showpiece occasion. Matches between Glasgow and Hibs have been tight for a long time now and it's certainly something I'll watch. The only finals I've been to before were between those two.
I don't think I'd call either club rich or say that winning the cup makes Hibs richer. They're just marginally the least skint. The pull for players surely can't be financial, it has to be about ambition more than anything else.
I think the playing field will become more level when other clubs develop more quality players. Surely we can hope for more than 40 decent players in the country? It's not like Glasgow and Hibs are bringing in quality players from abroad, they're just getting best of what's available in this country (and not good enough to play for money elsewhere). In the men's game, if Celtic and Rangers could only pick from home-grown players, minus the dozen or so best who are playing outside the country, they wouldn't be beating everyone else 8-0 every week. The problem really stems from the fact that we've still only got a handful of good players. 
As for demoralising, clubs like Spartans still win more than they lose, and their young players are looking to develop. There's plenty to play for, and most are playing for the love of the game rather than league titles and international caps. 
And the Scottish Cup - there were some brutal withdrawals this season, for apparently terrible reasons. Maybe there should be a qualifying cup to get in with the better clubs.

I get your point however I never said the pull was financial. The only way to make it as a footballer in this country is to go to hibs or city, then hopefully get a move abroad or down south and become professional. This is the reason they end up with the creme of the crop and will continue to do so. There are some good young players at other clubs but as soon as they shine they are snapped up by the big 2.
A qualifying competition I don't think would help either, there is already a prelim round to even up numbers for division 1 and 2 teams but trust me, they don't even want to be in it. Some teams find it cheaper to not show up for their tie than actually travel half way across the country to play it, by not showing up gets you banned from next season's competition, do you actually think that is a deterrent?

[GordonS]

8 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

I get your point however I never said the pull was financial. The only way to make it as a footballer in this country is to go to hibs or city, then hopefully get a move abroad or down south and become professional. This is the reason they end up with the creme of the crop and will continue to do so. There are some good young players at other clubs but as soon as they shine they are snapped up by the big 2.
A qualifying competition I don't think would help either, there is already a prelim round to even up numbers for division 1 and 2 teams but trust me, they don't even want to be in it. Some teams find it cheaper to not show up for their tie than actually travel half way across the country to play it, by not showing up gets you banned from next season's competition, do you actually think that is a deterrent?

Regionalised qualifying cups then, like we used to have for the men's Scottish Cup until about 11 years ago. And clubs could get a mileage payment before the QFs to help with travel. 

It should be possible for clubs outside the top maybe 3 or 4 tiers to skip the Scottish Cup.

The SRU are dealing with our small playing pool now by telling players who they play for. They control Glasgow and Edinburgh, and the clubs of young players through the four academies. Now they'll have more control in the new semi-pro series from next season. Maybe there are lessons in there.

[GordonS]

17 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Final won 8-0.

Half of QFs won 11-0.

Last 16 included 1 scratch, an 8-1 and an 11-0.

Last 32 (where "top 16" join) included 3 scratches, a 7-0, 12-0, 8-1 and 7-0.

By any measure that's pretty mismatched.


Since the players aren't professional, isn't there any way to introduce quotas, caps or drafts?

A draft approach is interesting. Tbh I don't think there's enough talent to spread it out further yet, I think there is an advantage in having the best players playing and getting coached together, pushing each other on and creating a pathway to the national team and to pro clubs elsewhere. I think it's a lot like the SRU, they spread the talent too thin with four pro teams, then cut to three and finally to two, which has worked well. Now they're setting up a semi-pro domestic tier of 6 clubs from next season to create a better pathway into the pro teams. 

The SFA are much, much too hands-off in the women's game. They should be the ones running regional academies and deciding which young players get to play for which SWPL1 club.

[pleslie99]

A draft approach is interesting. Tbh I don't think there's enough talent to spread it out further yet, I think there is an advantage in having the best players playing and getting coached together, pushing each other on and creating a pathway to the national team and to pro clubs elsewhere. I think it's a lot like the SRU, they spread the talent too thin with four pro teams, then cut to three and finally to two, which has worked well. Now they're setting up a semi-pro domestic tier of 6 clubs from next season to create a better pathway into the pro teams. 
The SFA are much, much too hands-off in the women's game. They should be the ones running regional academies and deciding which young players get to play for which SWPL1 club.

Now we are getting somewhere, sounds like a great idea tbh and spreading the talent meaning that it would be a whole lot more competitive.

[juventus]

A draft approach is interesting. Tbh I don't think there's enough talent to spread it out further yet, I think there is an advantage in having the best players playing and getting coached together, pushing each other on and creating a pathway to the national team and to pro clubs elsewhere. I think it's a lot like the SRU, they spread the talent too thin with four pro teams, then cut to three and finally to two, which has worked well. Now they're setting up a semi-pro domestic tier of 6 clubs from next season to create a better pathway into the pro teams. 
The SFA are much, much too hands-off in the women's game. They should be the ones running regional academies and deciding which young players get to play for which SWPL1 club.

There’s already the Performance Academy at The Oriam based out of Heriot Watt Uni most of the players who attend come from teams such as Hibs, City, Rangers, Celtic and Spartans.

Also there’s the 4 Regional Hubs that provide additional training for SWPL players.